The major issues the Incoming Biden Administration may face . Guest one thing that the bike administration pretty early on is going to figure out is they are inheriting at the very least a google antitrust lawsuit from the doj. Speculation about how politically motivated that it y been but nevertheless, the actual textual thing, its fairly narrow and fairly focused on issues that democrats have raised as well about the market power of google. They will have to decide, okay, almost certainly they will continue to litigate this, but do we want to expand this . Do we want to try and rope in some state attorneys general who are also investigating google . The trump doj has the support of group of ags but they are all republicans do we know democrats are looking at the stuff, too. So how expensive do we want to go on at the trust . Host do you think it would be more expensive expansive tha Trump Administration . Guest thats the expectation. Over the last couple years its been rigorous interest and prosecuting at the trust cases against Huge Tech Companies has gone from something that was purely a left flank issue in te Democratic Party to pretty mainstream, the house judiciary antitrust subcommittee put out a report making the case of your wife google is harmful, here is my facebook, amazon, apple as well. There is certainly energy coming from at this point the center of the party. A lot of the folks that seem to be either informally spoke with the campaign or were officially working on it or part of the transition, they are sort of part of that world of the came from the Obama White House come spend time in tech and are coming back. People are reading into that biden is going to go easy. Im not so sure thats the case. The connection these folks have is more i work for biden, i worked the Obama White House. But the center of gravity has changed here. Host cat zakrzewski of the Washington Post what is the issue you see forthcoming . Guest i think kyle is spot on the racing at the trust as a key issue especially looking at the transition of teams that biden released yesterday and looking at some of the names on that list, people like Gene Kimmelman at Public Knowledge of lisbon after talking about these issues front and center. That will be huge with the other big issue i am watching is how the Biden Administration may try to regulate social media companies. This 2020 election has been a major test of the Election Integrity policies that these companies have adopted over the last few years. We are really going to see a lot of discussion in washington about where to go from here on that issue. Biden during his candidacy did call to revoke section 230, a key internet law that provides these Companies Immunity from lawsuits from content moderation decisions. It will be interesting to watch especially based on what the balance of the Senate Looks Like next year, how the Biden Administration tries to push forward on that issue. Host is that the change from Trump Administration because President Trump is often cited and criticized section 230 . Guest thats exactly rit. Trump has also called for an outright real of section 230 t for different reasons. On the biden side you have policians concern these Tech Companies are not doingnough to moderate content, they are allowing this information to flow freel under services. Whereas the trump and conservative argument is more on these allegations of bias against them, these companies have gone too far in moderate d conservative voices. I think the challenge will be what does an actual reform to section 230 lk like in a world wont have a divided congress . Obviouslyheres a lot of momentum of both sid to regulate these companies but what does that legislation look like when you have two very different forces driving that push . Host john hendel, politico. Your turn tragic i think the will b urgency around broadband in large part due to the pandemic. We have seen lawmakers in the white house come back and forth this year time to get at bigger relief deal and tha hasnt happened. When you we look at the biden m now and the Incoming Biden Administration faith but broadband is top priority in the pandemic. Youve seen right after the election president electiden putting together a task force looking at the coronavirus, h best to helpeople they are. A lot of peopl who talked about help, they point to broadband, theeople cant do remote learning, the people who are strugglingo connectivity at me when the need to be home to be safe sometime. Thats going to be huge tng to watch in the weeks andonths ahead. The bidenampaign had talked about 20 billion goingo world broadband but they of talkbout other different piecesf that increasing democratic lawmakers talk about otherays to help ving different stopgap rief to help consumer billing, things like that. You will see somection there. Its also really notable one of the biggest circus are president elect biden is jim clyburn, hes been leading a task force, one of lawmakers who strike on this issue on capitol hi. With him in leadershipn the house, its hardo say that its not a new front and center when it are 2021. You also have a democratic led fcc whi will be trying to look atow to use some of their bsidies in different ways and focus on helping stunts, other different folks out there. That is going to be a top agenda item. Host i want to ask all three of you, over the years the democrats and big tech have been very friendly but it seems in this last congress especially that the democrats were willing to take on big tech. Is that a correct interpretatio interpretation . Guest ihink that youve seen a massive shift from both parties over the last four years. After the 2016 election there was frustration with the democrats over russian interference, scandalsike damage analytic up. The worlds a a consensus reaed to be some sort o safeguards need on some of these big companie and will. Under the obama adminisation you did see Close Relationships with their but the biden team has been open about their concerns. They have had been writing leto facebook, talking about dangers claptrap on the network. Thats the type of rhetoric that will make a much bger challenge for the Tech Companies now which are probably eyeg a Biden Administration trying to figure out how to lobby around this. That would be one of the biggest stories behind the scenesver the next few months seeing how these companies position themselves dealing with members ofoth parties, whether its senator josh hawley, linds graham or ncy pelosi talking about what they see as deep failings in these companies. Guest i think some ofhe people we are saying involved in the transition, Gene Kimmelman ing a great example, coming from publicnowledge, the Public Interest group. He was part of the antitrust division of the future at a time when they were pretty l about allowing tech consolidation. Biden as of the folks in its orbit who similarly came from the obama doj or the obama ftc. The sense that you get is less that okay, we are just going to see a total return to those norms of sort of allow the merger first, ask questions later, and more, dide make a mistake, lets maybe apply a little more scrutiny here. Guest just jumping off that look at the transition teams that were announced, i thought it was telling we didnt see big tech lobby is from google, from facebook, from apple on that list and we did see i believe to people from amazon and amazon web services. In general there was a lot of tech representation but typically for more i would call them less controversial companies, the drop boxes, Smaller Companies that havent been as much at the trust claire in washington. Certainly were seeing a lot of momentum antitrust glare recently when they accuse tech of these monopolistic behavior and so that gives the democrats a mandate to push forward with aggressive antitst action aimed at the industry. Hos how important was social media during this campaign, and what changes do you think well see Going Forward . Guest i think it was critical just given the fact a lot of the traditional forms of campaigning can happen during the pandemic, particularly on the democratic side. We saw biden not hold rallies, not engaged during the entire campaign season, doorknocking and that traditional canvassing. That really force a lot of campaigns to invest more heavily in social media and just given that dynamic weve seen the election plan on social media in a way that is much more extreme and aeared than even in 2016. Guest very much so. In 2016 there was still a stage where certainly the Trump Campaign very effectively use targeted advertising and general Facebook Advertising and organic facebook content. Still sort of although we were eight years removed from the first major social media election, it was the one where i think arguably engagement on social media reaching out to voters on social media like actually potentially swung the election. We sort of saul, for one thing, there was more political spending this cycle on facebook and youtube then there had ever been. And more online political ad spending across the board, even though a number of platforms most notably twitter, dropped political ads altogether. It was a major focus. I think more than the traditional electioneering and advertising, the biggest factor, the biggest force that social media had in this psycho was is cycle was repository for misinformation, frankly. We are continuing toee that play out in the post election period. Guest i think its interesting you are also seen members themselves. 2 how important this is, only due to the pandemic. That was something congresswoman ocasiocortez brought up ts week when people talking about what is the future of the demoatic party right now and somewhere lrning some of the progressive rhetoric for democrats not doing as well in the hseaces. The point she looked it was no know we need to focus on digital. That shows werehink a lot of the dferent younger member to looking too. They rlize you should be a priority and ung defective some were able to do digital outreach really well. Aoc is a member w has that big ach. So does President Trump. You areeeing more and more members embrace that, and juicing federal some o the theater of congress. Th interesting thing is you s axios testify before congress. Some of the differe members are immediately figured out hard with packages a part of our social media identityn a different way . You might senator ted cruz dng a trailer for his big sparring with twitter Ceo Jack Dorsey wright ahead of the hearing its not inherently part of the Campaign Advertising but it is part o how the are bolstering their social media ideities and finding new wayso do anything in washington. That can also make it more tricky. s even more theater, even more showmanship. It makes it harder to do sotimes a sensitive hearing when youave only seen people for years going and asking a question to get the soundbite they wan now its not just the soundbite but its how do w take that undbite, package it on social media and add dramatic mic to actually try that he to a very often specific audience . Thats the other part of it, able to target those audiences and a whole different light. Host looking down the road a little bit with checking of political discourse weve seen on social media in this election cycle, are becoming to a point where the social media sites will be siloed toward an opinion as some of the news channels are today . This leads to the rise of parlay, the new conservative side, et cetera. Guest thats sort of the wait and see thing. Republicans in particular as cat said earlier, the chief grievance is we feel that we are bein censored. We feel theres an anticonservative bias in the moderation decisions. They have seen a few times these threats, were going to pack r bags and go over the summer, ted cruz and a number of other politicians said i a joining parlay, come andoin me there. They havent really become super active. Parlayight in the post election period testing the big upti. It was top downloaded free app on the Apple App Store for a least a spell. We see if it sticks. The thi with facebook and twitter both are they are fairly allpurpose platforms. You use them to stay connected with friends and family and share cat video and whatever else you use it for. Is it anything more than a nice market for something that is just all screaming about politics all the time . We will see. Its an interesting te. There are various insurgent over the years that have not manag to really catch on, but maybe this time is different guest i would just mentioned that one of the things and makes it hard for me to understand is this is truly taken off independently or it is st a flash in the pan, is the fact a lot of the conservatives who are posting on this new site are also posting on facebook and twitter. They are crosspostin to all these platforms. I havent seen a significant shift where someone has totally left facebook and twitter twito to one of these alternatives yet. Its still really remains to be seen but but i do think it wile really interesting to wat next week when we are expecting that ceos above facebook and twitter to testify, how they talk about the rise of this new conservative alternative. One of the questions we hear from the right a lot is perhaps these companies have too much power and they point to these content moderation decisions as they talk about antitrust issues. It will be interesting to see how this comes up next week during that hearing and whether or not the ceos of facebook and twitter. 2 this is assigned a sign the competition in the industry. Guest i totally agree with your point and i think the biggest sign of that is President Trump himself is still actively tweeting every day on twitter. He could delete his own account at any point but instead he really wants to be there. He wants that engagement. He thrives on that. Even if yes so many grievances with the company, hes not getting off there. I. T. Is not seeking parlay or one of these other places thats out there on internet. He wants to be what he thinks the action is at. That is the broad reaching forums in this land. You will see him on the tweeting but you also seem raging against the company and going after some of the liability protections. That sets up the ongoing battle that a think well still be the case. I think youll be activity of these other platforms, not surprisingly, but at the end of the day you are not going to see them turned away from the biggest platforms. Host go ahead, kyle. Guest i i was going to sayi think as well that is politically useful dynamic. Posting whatever you want on a niche platform only to your followers, theres certainly a place for that, but where you can set up this dialectic i guess where you can actually try and make the case that, for instance, twitter in particular that a lot more right around election aggressive about labeling and even hiding trump tweets that were about the electoral process. When you can make the case that okay, these are the mainstream masters of the universe, josh hawley called them the new robber baron, they are the elites and they are trying to stifle us. I think that is a compelling narrative to a lot of right of Center People in this country that just obviously does not imply it on a wide open platform. Host i want to talk about some of the Ballot Initiatives that were on in 2020. California, michigan, massachusetts all passed overwhelmingly Ballot Initiatives that deal with privacy, and they all went on the side of more privacy. What should that tell u guest i think it will tell ushat theres going to be appetite for really more negotiation on capitol hill. Useful Industry Groups being troubled by some of the state efforts. They immediately socko you saw several Industry Groups statement saying we see was happening in california and elsewhere, lets getolks on capitol hill at the feral level to come back to negotiate some of this which is incredibly rd. You saw an attempt of that in the last two yrs and republicans and democrats despite some real good faith conversations and good faith working groups, month of talks, they took him back to theame key sticking point, whether federal law shoulde preempting the sta efforts. U are seeing concerned about whether conmers should have a right to sue some of these biggest Tech Companies. Based on where we see things right now where it is going to be probably very tht margins and a little unclear whether the republicans hold the senate for democrats might just barely get it, thats goingo show it still going to be very hard and it will need to be bipartisan. That makes it one of the biggest objectives in theew congress but its hardo say whether they will not anymore loc than in the past two years. Although i do think the Biden Administration might be more of an active partner. You saw the Top Administration start to jump in onrivacy but then they retreated in the last ar so that not been quite as local in some of those efforts. Guest its unclear to me how much momentum there will be. Theres a lot o obviously the voters have spoken in these states and theres a l of consumer demand for privacy legislation. We are seeing it on both sides but w have constantly seen escially over the last two years even dating back a decade so much gridlock on thi issue of passing bipartisan privacy legislation. It might be an uphill battle, particularly in the early days of a biden adminisation. I just dont know ho