I spent the better part ofy career focusing on Health Policy issues that were important to women everything from abortions longterm care and everything in between really lived experience of your memoir really i validated to met least my work on policy and why so important to women for not only toomen but to families and it just really want to thank you for sharing your very difficult and intimate story. And while the story focuses on yo third pregnancy. Theres so much year and were never goingo find familiar about their lives n matter where they lived the circumstances of their lives to tell us a little bit about your book what motivated you to write it. To onto the book is called loved and wanted in the catalyst for the book was an unintended pregnancy that i had when i was 40 years old and living in the state of West Virginia and i grew up in upstate new york and i lived in new york city for middle hundred any years my adult life. Also in los angeles for my family had moved from los angeles to West Virginia where im a professor at West Virginia university. In the book is titled loved and wanted a memoir of choice, children and womanhood. When we moved we had a daughter. She was three and a half years old at the time. They wanted to add more children to our family but had a really difficult time getting pregnant. We moved it for the job because we are not making it and los angeles. We did not have the money to pay the rent there. So we arrived in West Virginia, we welcome the second child, a daughter. And we were on her way with her family still teaching. The year later but i was still breastfeeding our second daughter of henry self unexpectedly pregnant with her third child. It was a surprise because i had a history of tubal pregnancies and one rush sure and i was terrified because it couldnt afford a third child. My salary when i provided for their child. So i contacted my doctor. I seen right away because i had that history of tubal pregnancies and i was told i went to the Doctors Office that even though i announced about it that they didnt know how or where i would be able to get an abortion if i wanted one. And it that was totally shocking to me. I thought that cannot be true. [laughter]. That is what i was told. I left. I felt completely defeated and confused. And distrusting of the medical system. I called a friend it is an active doctor and she told me that i needed to sink to another doctor. Need to speak to one free to needed to know who it was and she would be able to provide prescription for 486 for me. And i was to get in touch with her. And i discovered that there were any briers to that prescription drug. One of them was basically telling me all of the bad things that could happen to me if i decided to terminate the pregnancy. End of course, this doctor is an activist and she believes reproductive you. This is the law she has follow. But then she also told me that if i had any complications that i should not tell any nurses or other doctors. I would be with a hefty amount of pushback work. Having prescribed this drug for another patient and that have been discovered. So with that, i thought i was boots living in a small town and i dont think that i trust this to keep my privacy. So i learned about Reproductive Health care america at that point. This something that i sense an educated woman and embarrassed to say that i did not know that about it. But i learned in their clinic was about a four hour drive. And all the restrictions, would take probably about two weeks out of my life to go get that termination pregnancy. It would require time off of work. It would require childcare they didnt have theres so any hurdles in my way. And they were just challenges. With the shame that exists when a person has this. Yes definitely wan to talk about that. Come so clear through book. Christa so that is what is needed for this book. Because i kne that i was at the only woman hoodie eerience that obviously. I thought and will get on with his story what happe later with my son who was born that june. Cause i did have him. I felt a responsibility to talk about the story reproducte healthcare in america. My personal is because there are so any books on policy out there. There are no books i know about a personal experience this way. And he needed to lend my voice to that. Theres an important study and has profiles of women but the words are very much your story. And the complexities. And really very compelling. And i was curious start of the book, is the last day of my old life. I havent read it yet but i believe he had a earlier memoir by the loss of yr identical twin sister. My husband actually is an identical plan as well. So ver much want to read that. Buis a very tragic loss basically asar as what ive been able to read. But the depression and this moment to you really unintentionally getting pregnant at age 4 with two small kid rocky marriage. To say the least. D really to see change from you. Can you tal a little bit about why this is so pivotal in you life in. Christa yes, so the book you mentione before. Its called her and about the loss of my identical twin sister karen who had suffered sixyear about of serious depression after having been rap by a stranger in the woods near her house in massachusetts. She died of a Drug Overdose but it was kind of a suicide any ways. She was not able to survive the level of depression and anxiety that came from that attack. And i happen to think after losing my twin which you can understand im sure, felt like losing myself. It was completely destabilizing to lose my twin. I love that was the hardest thing that would ever happen to me. In so any ways i hope it is is. Hard. I can laugh because if you cant laugh about it what you have. Like a laugh about it a little bit. But when i say was last day of my life. Im thinking about what it means to be a woman in america and saying what you want matters. There was a moment for me when i realized that what i wanted to choose for myself, the agency that i thought i had didnt exist. And it changed me as a citizen and a mother. And and end up going back from that. I dont think i ever did. So thats wherehe first line of the book comes from. Alina that is verynteresting. The makes a lot of sense because really, you have veryittle control. Think one of the issues that you really captured was when you talked abo this a little bit earlier, the stigmahat women feel about abortion. Our society treats abortion differently than any other health concerns. We regulated differently in terms ofealthcare svices. Enemy women feel alone at a time when they really need to be supported. And we found them. And thiss captured as its said, very eloquently. But our society and o policies make it so hard for women to even reach out becau they are so ashamed. I felt like in your circumstances, you are so alone. Even though y had community the seem to be, where you fou friends you are married. Theres a very solitary experience. And shameful in terms of diussing it. It was. In the shame is multi fold. Talking about abortion even amongst prochoice friends is not something that was done. My frids are prohoice activist. Image of valleys, they had children of their own. But they werent talking with the necessity for their own abortions for the morni and sharing their abortion stories. Which is more common honestly. Have so any friends and i am so glad theyre feeling like theyre able to share their stories. An affiliate is something that is change the last five ten years. Alina is been a lot of works as you know. One of four women hav an abortion in their lifetime and we dont talk about it. Christa weise are starting to but we are not talking to people wanted when he didnt get one. Think thats thebout this footprint announces itself o a taboo for any reasons. Because of one a better world fo my children and the women socc the only way to do that is to articulate it. Of course. There was shame in admting that i didnt think i could afford a child. So there was that sme, the shame of telli my friends friends i have thisife because money is not a conversation that we haves well. It is not something that people are talking about. But it is simply conceed that women have when it comes to deciding whether or not they would like to continue or terminate a pregnancy. I hav course you know this, the jority of women who seek a termination are already mothers they do so because they cannot afford to bring another child into tir families. D think about what happens in the children that they already have another will provide those children putin Children Education there was that, the shame of noteing able to admit that cannot provide that their child with salary i had at the university. Because they enter the low playing of teachers. [lauter]. Alina yes, he earns more money the night and had the same job. And yes, in any other men who made more than me too. And they still do frankly. Even after this. So though was that shame. But the shame that was confusing to me was the shame of being told that i didnt have access to termination in my town. And in the shame of being told that i needed to keep it secret. In the hardship of having to jump through hoops of fire to get to charleston to have that termination of pregnancy. It wasnt until after i had my son that i understood that shame and found me in a way to make me feel the thing that i wanted to do which was completely within my legal rights was wrong. And that the desired that i had to terminate the pregnancy was wrong even though its a mothers desire to protect the daughters that i had. But it lived inside of me. I dont know that it does anymore. But its a hard thing to evict. And he carries that shame and he carries itself out through the birth of my son as well. Some wasnt something that i was able to articulate until after he was born. It was something that also so few women had gone through this experience who i can discuss that with free because it seemed totally logical to them to try. But you can attend this, but you couldve done that. As they said to. When youre held in place, youre not doing anything. Thats exactly what these laws are intended to do to women. Its shame freezes them from being able to make the decision whether its the right thing for the families are not. Alina yes. I hear the type of message over and over in society. Its interesting because a juicer Gone National unsightly trance middle infections. The only thing more stigmatized than fdis are abortion. So that is one of the issues and any are trying to overcome and keep opening up about it. Definitive for any women, and any times is the opposite. Its a difficult time. They put in the fox. They dont share their abortion stories with other women. So think hearing your story, think will be very helpful. Sue and i wanted to talk a little bit about your vision brightest the first director. Try to think of the doctors name. The confirmation of pregnancy. Because i really kind of found that so difficult to read. How you were treated at that visit. And i was little mystified than transactional ultrasound at the visit would make sense that you have a history about talking internet topic. And sees that they wanted to rule and operated but thats not typically the standard of care for an early visit. Any of the abortion restrictions, they require women to have an ultrasound even though no medical evidence that they needed early in pregnancy there. It sounded a little bit like if you took it out of the context of that you went to see a doctor that you almost went to a Pregnancy Crisis Center for that visit. Tell us a little bit about what thatisit was like for you. Christa i am sure some viewers dont know what a cris Pregnancy Center is. So in morgantown, we have more pregnancy crisis that occurs. Then we have centers to be able to go get a prescription. Apparently there are other doctors who will prescribe those drugs because theyre also working undercover a well. We have two crisi Pregnancy Centers. Those are cters that are set up to make it so women will be convinced to keep her pregnancy that they thought that they were going to have a consultion for to hear the options for termination ofregnancy. But i had not thought of it. But thats exactly what it felt like. They wouldve been much nicer and it crisis Pregnancy Center than how you were treated. Christ is a great point. [laughter]. Alina anyway. Christa i thought about it a lot. Because the doctors only was upper Level Medical student. I dont know that he was trained at that time and bedside manner for women who are interested in terminating a pregnancy. But there was no discussion in that meeting between the two of us adoption or what would happen in the case of fetal abnormality. It was just no, i cannot help you. And not even im sorry that you feel afraid. Because i was crying. There is just no goodbye, godspeed. Which i wonder, under since then. I wonder how any other women women in this country have that experience. In the care. And it seemed like an anomaly to me at the time. But now i see it differently. I see that we live in a country where thats confused in office. Alina i will tell you that the current policy around this program, the federal famy Planning Program is that that e clinics are no longer required to do a nondirective pregnancy oion counseling for women. And they are not permitt to offer referra to abortion providers. So i always think about if you go to, can imagi going to a doctor and the detective ndition were you need to get a specialist or a more advanced re. And they say like, i am sorry. Give you a referral. The kind of violates standds of care yet were asking our clinics to do the very thing. For abortion services. Unaffected you were you we just kind of left there. I could really see the image of you being put in that room and waitg for someby else to go there. Hard to say are you done. Christa i couldnt believe it. Alina that that was kind of, really put an image in my head also about what we are asking the pviders to do and why so any providers have let the title x program. One in four clics are no longer participating becse they do not want you to experience for their clients to experience the similar types of things. C1 i wonder as well in this situation, because i felt this way then. And have known this growing up as a woman in the american medical care system. Just women are not often listened ton the Doctors Offices. Weather concerns are not taken seriously. Part of me thought my durin this correctly. Because this is against what i ow to be legal. So theres also a moment in which that i think the dtrine the situation which a woman will internalize what she hears from the doctor instead of thinking about the sanity of what was just sent her. Her insanity. Alina playing a really comes out clearly and some of the policies that we have about the pre counseling that women get the information the several states require them to actually its just not true about the consequences of abortion. Negative consequences and in fact, we know have been involved in a National Academy of sciences studies shows and actually abortion is extremely safe and a lot of the information that we know the states the policymakers are requiring women to be told is not really true in the way that we all support this content argument really is misguided and basically untrue information. They are providing them. That is actually making them afraid. Again, im supportive and confident about their own decision in their own agency. Alina and these policies do not help women feel they have the ability to make the decision to continue the pregnancy to begin with. There these laws are not creating pots of money for women who are going about supporting the children to begin with. That is a tragedy. Alina you write in detail about the policy a personal factors that can push you to want to have an abortion at the same time ultimately foiled your efforts to try to get one. Inhe very reasons that this exhaustion and lack of funds, and lack of confidenc with the things tt makes it nearly impossible for me to get one. I shouldve seen how easy this all could have been b i didnt because it wasn alina all the things that y had a factor in the just see that you read them and youre like well you could do this or this or this. D put all of this together. It just makes it s difficult. Christa it does. Im sure we will talk about it in a little bit. Had cupid been born in a different situation, i dont know that i wouldve come to that conclusion because we are told his mothers to forget the desire to have the abortion that you have your son now. I look up beautifully is prayed and he is beautiful. And i do love him. And he is a member of our family. Those are realities. Alina honey respond to vicious tones to argue that all those efforts make the axis difficult were succeful in your case. And you dont get an abortion, eventually you will learn to love this child and you will make it work. Honey respond to that. If. Christa what you make it work. Im a mother. The thing that i learned in this pregnancy and delivering my son in West Virginia, he was born with severe medical complications. He had a broken clavicle which was not diagnosed until he was five weeks old and West Virginia. In california we have, my has been have been offered a job there right at the end of my pregnancy. But he was also he suffered from a severe lip and tonguetied was unable to latch at all. I had to feed him with medicine dropper. His jaundice was severe. So severe that he really needed to be treated in hospital the jaundice but because the hospital was overcrowded, we were asked to leave even though he really needed treatment and i was told to put them under a window at home even though it was a heat wave and it was 92 degrees in my house. He is our air conditioner was broken. He was failing. My son was failing. Ahead the sun that i had difficulty getting to me because obviously i didnt know if i can support him. But my feelings for rage for myself at that moment is a woman, switched to range for my child is not getting proper medical care. And what happened was a dedicated months of my life to looking up policy and realize that children who were born in states that curtail Reproductive Healthcare have babies and children and infants with poor medical outcomes. The higher levels of mortality. And i felt that there are any people who do not agree with a womans right to choose. And dont call them for life, i call them antichoice. I think anyone is hardpressed to say that her children do not deserve adequate medical care. So these and children not having adequate medical care, they