Fundamental. Joining me are two of the most revolutionary food activists in the bay area and dare i say the nation. Outspoken mavericks in both their field. Saru jayaraman is the coeditor of the new book people taking on corporate food and winning. Shes leader of the Food Research center and founder of the Restaurant Opportunity Center and president of one fair wage. Our founder is the founder of its 49th year and the schoolyard project, now in its 25th year, a program that has ignited a network of some 7000 education projects around the world. Alice is also the author of 17 books including her upcoming manifesto about the power of food and a recipient of thenational medal of honor frompresident barack obama. Welcome to you both. Thank you. Alice, lets start withyou. If food is fundamental what is the prominent issue to you now . I think that we have a Silver Lining possibility. Because we do all eat. We all eat. And we have the possibility of eating with intention. We could buy our food from the industrial food system. But we could buy our food from a market. We could grow our food. We could connect with the farmers who take care of the land and the farmworkers and we could say i want to buy directly from you. And were at the beginning, looking for taste. I couldnt find the taste, it was like the food i had eaten in france. It was like 1971 and it led me to search for what was growing in and around the bay area. And the first thing we did was roberta farms and when you buy directly from the farmer, it doesnt cost us much the cause theres a retail component to it. Theres distributors taking money. So we would go to the stand and buy in the fall and then ultimately we ended up on the doorsteps of the organic Farming Movement incalifornia. And we knew that the best tasting food there was also. So thats where we went. They went and got most of mothers peaches and brought them to the restaurant and it was amazing when we chose those. They said where did youget that . Its so delicious and again, making that connection. I dont know whether i answered yourquestion. Im wondering the founding of those first farmer stands and fruit trees and so back from then until now here we are six months into the pandemic when so many of the food chains have been completelydisrupted. Everyones health is at stake and youve been thinking about these issues for decades now. What has been the burning ember . The real shocking part is the fact that the industrial food system has been exposed. They are in it for the money. They want to buy the animals rather than give them to people that are hungry. They shop them and bury. And this was a real moment in the pandemic for i think everybody throughout the country. They saw that happening on the front page of the newyork times. And you see the people who are struggling to find something to eat. And its happening all around. Were worried about our food security. And weve never really been worried before in this way. Maybe during the depression we were worried. I know my parents were worried. During world war ii and its the reason they planted a Victory Garden at their home and we ate out of their garden growingup. And that became the food through thewinter. As i always say, it would have been great if she would have been a good cook but she knew nothing about cooking. But that is something that we have never been trained as a country. Yes, there are pockets of people, particularly in the south but we found them and they all went to tennessee and we cooked for the chefs there for al gores climate underground conference. And i found that they had applied for kinds of beings that i had never heard of before. They knew how to cook greens so beautifully. And i was again, surprised by the biodiversity. The local biodiversity. The traditions of food that exist in this country. But in 50, 60 years of food indoctrination, weve forgotten about this. And this pandemic has brought it back in a way that we want to know whats nearby. We want to help the people who make food in our communities. We tried to think of everywhere we can plant food and i know that thats happening in places right now, theres a project from america stopped and asked us if we could help connect the organic farmers with food boxes that could begin in two people who need it. And we found that philanthropists who helped us to do that. But what could be better than people who need it the most getting healthy food . But it also exposed the whole health system. Big time. And the people who are the most vulnerable because its a poor diet around fast food. They are also the most susceptible to the pandemic. And its really a moment that we need to Pay Attention to what we are eating. And im going to bring out while we wereeating. Sorry to interrupt, so you have such an astounding experience in the Food Industry of people who workin food and in restaurants. You devoted yourself to wellbeing and fairness of these issues. What is the burning issue in food fundamentals right now, what is the burning issue and we will fan out both of you to discuss not just either issue but many of them. Where we needto go, where we are headed. Theres so much i could talk about but i think the burning issue for literally millions of workers right now is, at least the Restaurant Industry. Or any part of the food system you think are essential workers, those essential workers are suffering and the Restaurant Industry is the largest of the food labor systems. We in a lot of states, there is this absurd minimum wage of 2. 13 in 13 states, a lot of the country not in california but the earning burning issue is now that a lot of those states that page workers two dollars are reopening at 25 or 50 percent capacity and asking workers to come back, risked their lives for a two dollar wage and theyre being asked to do social distancing and mask rules from whom the same customersthey are supposed to get tipped. Its an impossible situation. Its a Public Health disaster for the workers. Either theyre going to enforce these rules and not get tips. I cant tell you the number, thousands of workers that are telling us i dont have money for gas to get to the food bank. When i get to the food bank theres no food, its spoiled or its gone. Ive had people telling me im stealing for my children because i have no other way to feed my children. These are people whose lives have been about serving us food and theyre not able to feed their children so either we need to enforce those rules and not get tips or theyre not going to enforce those rules so that they can get tips and feed their kids. Its an impossible choice and its bringing me to a Public Health disaster either way so the burning issue continues to be how can we pay the largest workforce in america . Now its literally a matter of life and death. Literally. [inaudible] something about that because this is all about food being cheap. Fast, cheap and easy. And in order for food to be cheap the only way we can buy food thats industrially produced and secondly, not to pay the people who work in the forest serving it and thats why the food is cheap. Since the beginning of time food has always been considered precious. Dont waste any little thing. Save everything. I always think of josc undress when say that, he said i think i can make for meals, you can make six. If you know how to cook but its the same instance that the Food Industry has made money on taking advantage of the cheap price and enticing people to buy that food because its cheap. And we need to really expose that right now for what it is. Its all wrong. All wrong. Can you layout for people who might not know, i spoke with you a few months back since the early days of the pandemic at a time when people were actually getting violent in those early days and you were in a situation with lots of restaurants people. Can you do a quick sketch about how people have been going through. Before the pandemic there were 13. 6 million restaurant workers. It was the nations are just private workforce but also the absolute lowest paying and thats largely due to this absurd wage, the federal minimum wage of 2. 13 an hour which is a slave wage that originates from Restaurant Owners after emancipation not wanting to pay workers and not wanting to play back black people a wage and have them live on tips instead and the concept of tipping came from europe where it was intended to be extra on top of a wage but we changed it into a replacement for wage and that became law in 1938 under the new deal which said the minimum wage except for tipped workers, you get zero dollars. We went from 0 to 1938 to 2 dollars, 2. 38 an hour before the pandemic, it was of course economic instability and Sexual Harassment in most of the female appellation of waitresses and bartenders across america. With the pandemic, about 10 million of those 13. 6 million workers lost their jobs and weve done a lot of research. We started a fund, we raised 23 million, 60 percent of them, 60 percent were unable to access unemployment. Not because of immigration status, the vast majority across the country were told that their wages and tips were too low toqualify for benefits. The thing they paid taxes to receive. These are state that refused to raise these workers wages and then turned around and told them in the pandemic because we didnt raise your wage you cannot now get benefits because your wages are too low to meet the minimum threshold and thats literally mass starvation, conviction, homelessness. There are so many reports now of restaurant workers living in poverty across the country. Inability to pay utilities. Winter is coming and without heat people are going to die. I dont know if people understand, people are going to die and they cant feed their kids. They literally cannot feed their kids and that has been an ongoing situation and when you compound on top of that it is incredibly impossible choice. Either you take this two dollar job and risk your life where you can try to Police Customers on social distancing and masks while you try to get tips from them or you dont get to keep your benefits if youve got benefits. Because Unemployment Insurance was set up to encourage people to take any lowwage job that came their way. That means you are forced to take that job. Think about all the restaurant workers that take these conditions or health risks. I talked to a restaurant worker whose mother died of covid while he was working a 12hour shift in a restaurant. These are communities of high risk of everything from diabetes to all kinds of Health Conditions but theyre being told if you dont take that job we dontcare about your health situation. If you dont take that job and go back to work for a two dollar wage youll lose any benefits youve got because most of those were denied by the state. Some of them were able to get the 600 from the federal government which then disappeared and has not come back. Here you are with this impossible choice. Im going to risk my life and my families lives or lose my benefits. There is no goodoption there. I just dont think people understand that the intensity or severity ofthe situation and we are about to see even more of. So whats going through yourhead . What is going through my head . A massive strike. A massive strike. Every restaurant, every restaurant tour needs to just say no. We cant. We wont open our restaurants. We have to be sort of in solidarity is a lot of whats goingthrough my head. I mean, we are in a very vulnerablesituation to. Were very lucky that we have all these years, these wonderful clients who support us no matter what and were trying to get food to them and trying to social distance and all of the above, but whether we can keep it together and sell enough food so that when we open up, when we are able to, that we will have the staff to do it. And but to think about that kind of lowwage is kind of unbelievable to me. And its kind of unbelievable also to think about the food that children are being served at school. And of course without school theres no food for the kids. And thats something that we are scrambling to take care of in berkeley. But on thinking about all around the country, that children dont even have free or reduced lunch. But its the time when i think you need to be also Healthy School lunches every single day and when we open up, we need to be paired to do that we really need to consider the values that come with that food. What we are teaching our children. And the stewardship and equality and nourishment are key to that. How the food is grown is a big part of it. And im looking for leadership from the university ofcalifornia. I am. And we have a very big buyer of food. And whether they purchase their food with discernment, but if theyve decided that they would support all the Small Farmers that take care of the land, it would put young people back into farming. Put young people into farming. What if we take farming as the real cost, what if we directly from the farms we do . What if the university of california, im not talking uc berkeley, im talking about every campus. Could be an incredible stable buyer. It could connect all of the students with the farms. Thats what happened with chez panisse. We would go to the farm and pick up the food and it was a real education in farming. We ended up really learning so much. Learning how the restaurant and completely seasonally but the university is such a resource of research and kind of, can you imagine . We could repair our immune systems. Its good for our health and its good for the healthof the planet. It directly cools the carbon down and it restores. And i dont know, im very hopeful in that place because its chain around the state of california and i guess we were in berkeley at the right time in the 60s and i felt the power of demonstrating that point, the hope that we had. The hope of stopping a war in vietnam. The hope that we could really attract civil rights. The hope that the university could provide free speech for everybody. And we accomplished a lot. And we did that together and i never lost my hope since then. So thats where im going. Im going to the place of education which i think is our last truly democratic institution. Its all children go to school or should. And im afraid our schools have been industrialized like our farms. And we need to make an intervention. Right through the cafeteria doors. We need to come in with the buyers that are so fundamental to humanity. Come in with that really write food. Come in with the diverse city of ingredients. Come in with a sense of nourishment. And then appreciation. We become grateful to the people who bring us our food. Saru, you have such an organizing mind, and advocates mind, a systemic mind of how to implement how to bring about fair wage on all these kinds of things. Having heard what alice said, she has a passion for using the uc system as an economic engine, connecting the university to farms within the radius, about supporting healthy things that are good for theclimate, regenerative agriculture. How would you implement that . How as alice said, what are the first things that come to your mindhearing that vision . Hearing that mission . I think that this crisis has created an opportunity to push for reallytransformative change at all levels. Like just on that question i would say lets elevate the crisis that children are facing without being able to access food right now. Lets elevate the crisis of children even in the bay area or around uc campuses thatare not able to access food. I know my children, their school was shut down and theyre replacing it with a Charter School so theres that element that theres corporate food and theres corporate education, trying to impede on the Public School system and the uc system could play a role in changing all of that. I think elevating the crisis is the way that i would go about doing it. I think thats true on these broader issues even beyond the uc system in the food system in america, all workers are facing whether theyre in the meatpacking plants and their processing the meatthat gets to our tables or there the farm workers , suffering with high rates of coronavirus for their the restaurant workers trying to enforce social distancing on a two dollar wage. Theres an opportunity right now, obviously even that were essential, theres a new Awareness Among consumers that these workers are essential. We couldnt live without them. And so i think its time to really push on that awareness. I think also its time to lift up the Silver Lining. Alice mentioned Silver Linings and i think theres a real Silver Lining, alice is one of the Silver Linings because shes one of many Restaurant Owners that have said like she just did. Things have to change for workers and for employers at the same time so i just wanted to lift up, weve been having this extraordinary moment where Restaurant Owners got us on raising wages in the past, two or 300 havecome over to our side in the last several months. During the pandemic and after also the murder of george floyd have come to us and said its time to end this legacy of slavery, time to end this two dollar wage so weve created these unity deals in new york, employers and workers saying we came together in a crisis and we are demanding change and were doing that in multiple states that the federal level. Were going to congress together and saying for gods sake, if we as independent restaurants and workers are typically on either side of the aisle, if we can come together and say we need both the restaurants which will provide relief to restaurants and raise the wage act which would provide a 15 minimum wage and elimination of the other wage, we need protection for workers and relief for employers. If we can come together around, why cant our elected officials, our leadership reach an agreement that would bring back the 600 Unemployment Insurance. Bring back stimulus, would bring back relief for restaurants that are on the verge of closing. Im sure everybodys heard the data that we may lose anywhere between 50 and 85 percent of independent restaurants in this pandemic and i think thats so horrific and its also important. Another data poi