George h. W. Bush. And he was the only republican. He was the only republican. Who came that day. And i always thought it spoke so well of both of them. It did. It spoke well of both of them. Folks, we have to stay on the clock. One thing i learned in television, i know how to get off on time. Thank you very much. You have a great day coming up here. [ applause ]. On our next washington journal, Gretchen Morgenson joins us. Looking at some of the shortcomings of the home loan modification program, which was set up to help homeowners struggling to make their mortgage payments. Then Susan Carlson of the Minnesota Organization on fetal alcohol syndrome about a new study examining drinking and drug use among pregnant teenagers. A after that, john jackson of Conservation Force talks about endangered species and big game hunting. Plus, your phone calls, facebook, comments and tweets. Washington journal is live each morning at 7 00 a. M. Eastern on cspan. This sunday night on q a. Institute neuer policy studies fellow and antiwar activist Phyllis Bennis on u. S. Foreign policy since 9 11. The war on terrorism. Who is isis . What are their origins . Why are they so violent . All of those are important. And i address them all in the book. But i think whats more important because its something we can do something about is what is the u. S. Policy regarding isis . Why isnt it working . Can we really go to war against terrorism . Are we just doing the war wrong, or is it wrong to say there should be a war against terrorism at all . I think those are the questions that in some ways are the most important and will be the most useful. Sunday night 8 00 easterncs American History tv continues to look back at the 1965 medicare bill by going inside the white house to hear telephone conversations between president johnson and his aides as well as members of congress. This is about an hour. We begin on may 18th, 1964, with a call between president johnson and his chief aide to congress, larry obrien. There are mentions of aflcio official an debris b. Miller and Wilbur Cullen, assistant secretary in the department of health, education, and fell ware. As the recording begins larry obrien is telling lbj about his talk on medicare with house ways and the Means Committee chir will purcha wilbur mills. Mills told me by the end of the week he thought hed have something in shape to discuss with you that he could present by way of a package that might be of interest. I told him i had read some articles recently that were a little bit disturbing that would indicate nothing was happening particularly in the medicare end. And he said, well, you know better than to Pay Attention to those stories. And i said, i agree with you, wilbur, i just wanted to be reassured. And he said, you know that you cant have everything you want. He said, this bill ultimately, he said, its got to have the mills stamp on it. And i said, well, you know the president s view is whenever you want to talk to him the door is wide open, hes just anxious and happy to see you. And he said, well, you just tell him again at i told you late last week that just as soon as im ready to sit down and be able to present something to him that i can spell out that would make some sense, and would represent a package i think would be of interest that i want to get ahold of you and make an immediate appointment. Wilbur cullen reported to henry, i asked henry to get hold of him this morning, he reported there hasnt been any particular new moves in the committee, that theyre still kicking around a little bit, that mills is edging toward a first of all, toward the end of last week, he felt that on the contract basis under any Medicare Program that he wanted to have the private Insurance Companies be able to bill along with blue cross. Now the labor folks got a little wind of that. Bemueller came in to see me the other day, they had gone to see mills, told today mills decided over the weekend, he thought that over, that was a little too complex and hes kind back in the position he was in, and that is that blue cross be given a chance to handle the contract. But he certain ly in the medicae ballpark, hes feeling his way along very slowly and carefully, and hes manipulating and maneuvering but he isnt pinning anything down that cant be unwound. I think we just have to have confidence in him to be contacting us by the end of this week for this longawaited meeting, and you know, and cullen says that from everything he can discover that there is no hanky panky, they said some smfs strong medicare supporters in the committee felt a little nervous, al oman for one, a decent guy on the committee talked to me last week, he said i have a feeling somethings going to work out but i get nervous because mills wont tell us anything. Thats the way wilbur operates as you know. I talked to him as recently as, oh, must have been noontime today. I would hike to get a wrapup on the thing and down to sea on it because i notice these stories are starting to break out, you know, in Different Directions and all kinds of interpretations on what is going on in there. So far, ill have to say that the consensus is that mills is going to come out with a Social Security package that bypasses medicare. You know, thats about all ive read. Now mills of course insists that isnt what he intends to do, and he says after all its all in the final analysis, what does it contain . And he said, you and i know that my goal is to include a Medicare Program. Id sure hike to talk to him about it as soon as he gets where he can, and i sure hope that he makes no commitments until we can talk about it. He promised the no commitment end. And told me that by the end of the week, why dont i figure ill give him a ring in the morning, touching base, hello, how are you wilbur, and keep right on him. It should be by the end of this week, hes reached a point in the committee there could be an ultimate price tag on this bill of. 3 billion i would think. You know. Overall. Because they get into the increase in the cash benefits and Social Security and i think that would be a tag of 400 million, 500 million, Something Like that. Now, i had told Wilbur Cullen, hell, if hes getting into something, no one fights those things. As long as it doesnt mean hes using this a handle to get out of medicare. He said, well, hes not going to use it for that purpose but hed like to have his mark on that. I said, if youre going to do that those folks ought to be getting those checks before election. He was talking about the package, 750 a month value, he said people go make a single election at the outset and that would be irrevocable. We kicked that around for a week or so. My contention was, hell, if its a 750 package on face value, then an election to take cash, the person should get 5. They shouldnt get an equal amount in cash equal to the package. Because hell, that isnt so now its my understanding thats the road hes traveling. Hes figuring the package he has in mind is worth in the open market, say, 750. And that the election they would have at the outset, which would be irrevocable election, would mean that they chose to take 5 in cash each month rather than the medicare benefit package. And the labor follows and that would be fine with them and they feel there should be be a election, and i guess from our point of view, if a person, you know im sure we can do a hell of a good sales job on Something Like that anyway. It doesnt concern me. It did concern me that youd given 7. 50 in cash snefs package, because i think a lot of people would rather have cash in hand. But if they are they can select between a 7. 5 package and a five dollar bill, and they have to make their choice irrevocable, im sure the vast numbers of people would go with the insurance program. Thats the area hes been in, you can see hes getting right into it. Indication house and means increased the Social Security retirement payment, behind closed doors. Half the Committee Said no votes were taken. Unofficial considerable bipartisan support has been displayed for raising the Social Security pension to offset the increase in living costs since 1959. This means the increase is 6 in the retirement rates would run up to 125 a month for a man retiring 65. Such raise would require an increase in payroll taxes perhaps by. 05 each on an employee. I tell them if theyre getting where thats getting out id like to know what he had in mind. That does fit in theyre asking me questions and i dont know what the hell youre doing, a democratic president ought to know what a democratic chairman is doing, tell him that. I will. From may 18th, 1964, lbj and his chief congressional aide larry obrien. The two have another call about medicare on june 22nd, 1964. Youll hear references to health, education, and welfare secretary anthony selllabrees and assistant contrary wilbur cohen. Mr. Obrien is talking about wilbur mills, chair of the house ways and Means Committee, which is considering the medicare legislation. Hi, mr. President. The wilbur mills situation is deteriorated. I had selllabrees and cullen here, mills killed a couple of hours in committee this morning but there was no action. He talked to cullen following that and feels that he cant put this thing together. That hes suggesting why not vote out a Social Security bill in the morning. Hes going to have the final markup. And with an increase in benefits that he wouldnt ask for any vote on mills and put that over the next year. And that he can either vote medicare, which wed lose, or perhaps he could skip that vote entirely, and why didnt we try to do something over in the senate side with the Social Security bill when it went over there to attach medicare to it, and at that point conceivably something could happen in conference and what have you. Now, i asked them just what they both felt, that short of a conversation between you and mills there wasnt anything that could happen except to lose this thing totally, that the best of what happened was they not take a formal vote. It would require that will require talking to gene keil to keep them away from demanding a formal vote. The whole thing is at a point where i think there has to be another conversation of some sort. Very frankly i dont have the handle i know im sort of just up in your lap without the answers to it. But i think that perhaps what we ought to companies suggest to mills which i can do that perhaps he could postpone tomorrow mornings meeting until wednesday. That we talk to the leadership further in the morning. That we have mills at the breakfast if you think thats a damn. Or if we arrange for a conversation in the morning with mills down here that might lead mills it could be presented to mills, wilbur youre out of steam because you dont have the votes and youre talking about watson and currently youre right, you dont have them. But what do you think about having the democratic members of the committee get together in one group and let us you and i, wilbur, put the pitch on them to come out of here with some piece of this bill . Now, we can do that or just try to avoid it and let them vote the Social Security aspect of this out and concentrate our efforts on the senate side. With mills feeling that conceivably he could be now its a reverse situation, isnt so much he would be a pulp but he would be in good shape with ama if he could convince ama something strong was going to come out of conference and therefore he would be the mediator cutting back and helping them to avoid having them have a debacle in conference. The whole thing therefore adds up to a pretty dismal situation as of this moment. I thought i should, number one, report it to you. Im sorry that i dont have specific suggestions that would be meaningful at this point on the corrective end of it. But i did want you, if you would, to advise me on what you think off this we could possibly do at this point. I guess best thing is just to let him go on Social Security in the house and see if we can add anything on in the senate. That may be the answer. If we can avoid an up over down vote on medicare in that committee, which will take some have to be awfully careful that we dont get caught in a crack by this thing, the white house i dont know. But anyway, thats one possibility. I dont know whether its worthwhile, i suppose theres nothing to be lost in a way if i could call them and say, if view of all this, wilbur, i dont think the committee should meet in the morning, wait another day, and these labor fellows around this, c. P. Miller called and left a message here apparently all hell had broken bone loose and things were falling apart in the ways and Means Committee and what were we going to do about it . That kind of message. Hes always hopeful that way. Just tell you how bad things are without any answers. But i did want to alert you to it. I am inclined at this point to ask mills if he would consider not having the Committee Meet in the morning. And to try and grab another 24 hours here in the hope that maybe lightning strikes somewhere. I dont know where it will strike. And there would have to be a miracle at this point to pull something off. If we cant find anything in 24 hours, try to work out an agreement with them during that period so that he would ensure that no vote would be taken on this, no formal vote in the committee, he would have no formal vote on current mills and go with Social Security. I dont know whether its worth getting into that involvement or whether i should just go straight and say, wilbur, how about skipping the vote in the morning . I dont know what 24 hours is going to bring us. I guess like Everything Else you play for time. I dont see much to be gained by 24 hours. You think, though, if you dont have 24 hours, that vote on medicare and the committee, you get beat, then that will be against you. Yeah, yeah. Since youre asking if he can keep them from voting or youll get your democrats to do that . Ill have to i think i could ask him and he would say, well, sure, ill be willing to cooperate with you. It will be up to you to hold off the kings and aldmans and keils and so forth which we can start working on. As i say, we have to do that anyway and take the chance people dont misinterpret it and say, people succumb to mills, in addition to that they screw around advisers of this thing to lay off. Its a little tricky. Im not throwing it into your lap, i want to advise you things are in a lousy state at the moment and i dont have an answer to a damn thing, sellabrees and cohen didnt have any answers either. Why dont i Start Talking to mills, at least open up conversation, its 5 15 tonight and we have the rest of the night until 10 00 in the morning before that committee is actually called. He on many occasions in the past has knocked off Committee Meetings a few minutes before theyre scheduled to start. He has announced in the press the vote will be taken in the morning on this medicare. Well, why dont you talk to keil or your best friends on the committee and try to avoid a vote if you can. If you cant, then ask wilbur to give you another day so you can what youre trying to do. Did he give any encouragement that you could add it on in senate . Not particularly. Hes just saying you must have the votes to add it on in the senate. Im sure that we do. Of course what the hell well, we can do it. Weve lost we cant count Teddy Kennedy will not be voting any more this year. Thats two vote you have to worry about. But i dont see daylight where mills is suggesting that he will be helpful in the conference, assuming that you tack it on in the senate and you are at conference. That mills would say, well, hell, in conference, i will play ball totally. To get a good piece of this thing accepted and then run it through the house. Thats one thing. But he said, im afraid what hes getting at is that his role at the point of conference, if we could convince or become convincing that this thing was in the process of full settlement in our way that mills moves in and on behalf of the ama, hes the guy cutting back, and hes a hero with the ama, and at the same time hes indicating of course, thats a big help to us. Its a pretty tricky operation. You know. I dont know. Anyway, why dont i not burden you further at this point. Let me get a feel of it with him. Just see what in gods name we might come up with during the evening. I just dont know at this point. President johnson and his chief aide to Congress Larry obrien on june 22nd, 1964. As our special program of lbjs calls on medicare continues, heres part of an august 1st, 1964, call with Florida Democratic senator George Smathers, a member of the Senate Finance committee which will soon start hearings on medicare. 1964 is also a president ial election year. And as this portion of the call begins, senator smathers is talking about the political implications of medicare. With mention of the republican nominee, arizona senator Barry Goldwater. Let me just say this to you if i may. This thing talk about, goldwaters against the Social Security thing. Youre for it. Now, if its held up and blocked and defeated in the senate by williams at the last minute in an effort to get out by John Williams and dirksen and a couple of fellows, why then youre off the hook. I tell you this is a lot better issue than it is in in fact. Because they find out i campaigned on this in 62, and they find out what theyre not going to get under this Social Security, and theyre not going to get free hospitalizatio