During the vietnam war. This interview is from the west point center of oral history and is a little over an hour. Today is the first day of october 2016 and we are in the west point center for all history and im here with Catherine Stevens can you please spell your last name . Tell me about your childhood. I knew you grew up as the daughter of an army officer. As an like growing up army brat. I grew as a millionaire child without any money. Wonderful had the most wonderful childhood. Brothers and my father had been in the cavalry. He was a wonderful horseman. Both my older brother and i rode from the time that i was three years old, and my older brother was the same way. I was born in princeton. For six years and when he married my mother, my mother was so bear was a very beautiful lady. My older brother was born there. Where else did you grow up . Bragg. Washington. Oklahoma. Hawaii, back to oklahoma. If the cut new york. I got free tuition. One of the questions i always asked people who lived through , where did you where were you when you learned ut katherine we went to a movie and we had just left home why. It was just an unbelievable moment in ones life. With her that event mean to your parents . What did that event mean to your parents . Katherine my father was just very surprised that we were stationed and they came over koligkolig pass and my father was very surprised we were surprised. Interviewer both your fathers and brother graduated from west point so west point has been a part of your life for a long time. Katherine a long time. Interviewer can you describe your childhood impression of what west point was . Katherine well, it was just so much a part of your life, really. And my father threatened my brothers, you know, if you dont study, you wont be able to get into west point, and thank god they didnt allow women in in my day because i never would have made it, i dont think. But it was something my brothers were expected to do. And i think it was fine with my younger brother but dont think it was the best thing for my older brother. He was great. He played polo here and in this building. Interviewer how many times had you visited west point . Katherine many. They asked me at the desk if id ever been here before, i guess the first time i came was a child and then as a we called them cadet girls in those days. Gosh. I cant remember. I think i was 16. 15. Interviewer 15 or 16. Wow. What did it seem like to you back then . Katherine it was wonderful. I stayed with a classmate of my fathers. He and his wife were stationed here. And i was scared to death. And i really they set me up with a cadet that truly wasnt very nice. I didnt like him very much. Sort of a snot. Interviewer you must have gone to dances at column hall. Katherine we did. At collum. We first went to the movie. And if you got a coke or anything, we paid for it. You paid for it. And we walked. There was no bus service, no cars. And you learn very quickly in the winter to wear your boots and carry your dancing. Interviewer very nice. Tell me about meeting your husband, general westmoreland. Katherine we were stationed at fort hill. And i got my school bus, which was an old army army ambulance. And it was drawn by two mules. And it stopped in front of west, the o. Q. And he came out. He had just graduated from west point. And he was so handsome. So thats when i met him. I was 9. Interviewer that was at fort then you met him as a student at u. N. C. Katherine no, i met him again in hawaii where i had a very beautiful polynesian dancing teacher, and i thought he was coming over to the club to distance with me. Guess what . He danced with the he taught us how to dance. And then, of course, the war came along. Interviewer world war ii. And he was in the european theater. Katherine he went into casa blanca, into africa and then england and interviewer france and germany. Katherine he didnt have time to have many girlfriends. So i was at my grandmothers and called him up. Interviewer that was after the war . Katherine uhhuh. Interviewer tell me about that. Katherine i just called fort bragg to see if he was there. I didnt even know if he was there or not. And they connected me. He was commanding the 504 then. And the aide said it wasnt an aide, some lieutenant. Anyway, he answered the phone and west answered and he said, kitsy, van dusen, are you a big girl yet . And i said yes. And he said, well, lets have dinner tonight, im going to general gavins. So we went to general gavins dinner. Interviewer how about that. Katherine we were married i guess four or five months later. Interviewer thats nice. Describe your wedding for me. Katherine well, it was kind of the first wedding in fayetteville where my grandmother lived in the town, so to speak. So it was more of a reunion for my parents than a wedding for me because everybody came, their old friends and everybody came. And the terrible thing that happened was that father had bought cases of champagne and this and that. And he found when he started to unload it where we were having the reception, it was a womans club and they wouldnt allow and it was a great shock. But anyway, everybody had a good time and then came back to my grandmothers house. Interviewer you wore your grandmothers lace . Katherine no, my great grandmothers on the vandusen side. It had long sleeves and very covered and a long train. Interviewer it must have been beautiful. Katherine it was. It was great. Interviewer was he in his blues . Katherine for, he didnt have any blues, i dont think then. I think my father was. Father was in tails. But i think west was just in a regular uniform because it was pretty soon after the war. He had just gotten home. Interviewer one of the interesting things i noticed when i looked at his time line was that he was a captain, although during world war ii he held the rank of colonel. And then when the army downsized they reduced everybody . Katherine he became a Lieutenant Colonel but just for a little while. And then became a colonel again. Interviewer how much did he discuss his world war ii experiences with you . Katherine not too much. Not too much. Interviewer during your early married life at fort bragg he was commander of the 504 and pretty soon after that he was chief of staff for the 82nd Airborne Division. Describe your experiences at fort bragg. Katherine well, i think i was like a puppy. I just wagged my tail and walked in a room. I was so young. I was just 20. And i just thought everybody liked me. And i was much too young to be a colonels wife, but as i say, i just didnt take it that seriously. Interviewer he would have been a young colonel, too. The war was accel accelerating everybody. Did you enjoy bragg . Katherine yeah. Interviewer in the korean war he commanded the 153 infanry one 87th infantry regiment from 19521953 as a brigadier general. Katherine he was a colonel when he went over. Interviewer then promoted while over there . Katherine yes. Because somebody, that dreadful man told me that called me once and said he could not wear the combat infantry badge because generals couldnt wear it. Or Something Like that. And west was a colonel when he went to korea. And so he couldnt wear it, i guess. Interviewer when the korean war happened, where did you live . Were you allowed to stay on post or where did you go . Katherine oh, no, we never were in those days, you had two days to get out of quarters and i went home. It didnt dawn on me not to go to my poor mother and father. And so i stayed there. And then i was able to go to japan. And as soon as i got there, then the chinese came in, i guess it was, and the 187 went back. To korea. Interviewer and the 187 while in korea went back and forth from korea to japan several times during the war. What was japan like . Katherine it was beautiful and very rustic. The honey buckets still went up and down the street and in fact, west landed in a field one time that had just been spread. Interviewer with fertilizer. Katherine and i wouldnt let him in the house. I hosed him off outside. Oh, it was bad. Interviewer and i talked to a bunch of veterans from the 187 and they really enjoyed all your their jumps and your husband enjoyed jumping . Katherine oh, he loved it. I think he had 121 or Something Like that. I dont know. Interviewer what was the Japanese Culture like for you . Katherine i loved it. It was, you know, you had gone through the war with i hate the japanese and all that, but this was before the treaty had been signed, so we lived in a great big, gorgeous Japanese House for about six months, i guess. Then we moved to the peace treaty was signed and we moved to pretty bad quarters. Interviewer after the korean war your husband was assigned at various times to the pentagon and then to Harvard Business school. What were these experiences like for your family . Katherine well, west was lucky. , you were born, and we were living in park, fairfax, and no air conditioning and a tiny little apartment and we had our an older our oldest child, stevie, and then i had rip and west promptly left for harvard, and he was gone. But i you went up to graduation. Interviewer harvard was the unaccompanied tour for him . Katherine he just went up. I think it was three or four months, Something Like that. Interviewer you were at home with two children . Katherine at home in this apartment. And then when he came home, we moved into a bigger house. And then he went with max worked for max taylor. Interviewer how was that . Katherine lovely people. I had margaret. I had two babies at the time, so i dont think i was a very good wife to i forget what his job was called, i dont know. Interviewer then after that, after leaving the Northern Virginia area, general westmoreland commanded the 101st Airborne Division from 19581960 and then from 19601963 was the superintendent here at west point. And then from 19631964 he commanded 18th airborne corps. Katherine it was just a few months of the airborne corps. Interviewer yes, maam. What were your experiences like at Fort Campbell . Katherine oh, we loved it. It was such a it wasnt a very pretty post at that time. But we thought it was perfectly beautiful. And rip, and i had the two little children and then our oldest child, what, six years difference . And, oh, just Fort Campbell was because you had to make your own fun. And i even got the regimental commanders to dress in tutus and boots. Interviewer that sounds like a good story. They didnt jump out of a plane like that, did they . Katherine no, but we did a charity thing and the regimental commanders had their boots on and tutus. Interviewer that must have been something. Katherine and they danced. We made a lot of money. Interviewer thats good. And you lived in the farmhouse, right . Katherine we lived in the log house. And the Commanding Officers house was way off by itself and i had two Young Children and stevie and they would have been miserable down there. So we moved up there. And loved it. Interviewer then lets talk about west point and becoming the superintendent. Tell me what it was like to be the superintendents wife. Katherine well, when i walked in the house, i thought the whole house would fall down and god would say, you are kitsy vandusen, you do not belong here. But i had Young Children and i was 31 or 32 i think at the time. And i just had a wonderful time because i didnt think of the cadets as young little boys, so to speak. They were all gentlemen to me. And i mean, i was not that much older than they were, and i think we had a lot of fun together. I went to all of their i went to the swimming and the wrestling and track and football, of course, baseball. I loved it all. And the kids would go with me sometimes and sometimes theyd say no. But interviewer what were your favorite activities here . Katherine i loved wrestling. Can you believe it . But i loved swimming, i love football, of course. And i love baseball. But i just love sports. Interviewer i imagine you went to all the formal events, right . Katherine yeah. Interviewer all the different dances and that sort of thing . Katherine not all of them, no. Interviewer tell me about entertaining at headquarters. Katherine oh, well, you could seat 10 on either side. At the big tables. And we had wonderful people come. Well, just sincerely interesting, fascinating people. And then of course we had the cadets and that was like a hell dinner. I would pick up my spoon and theyd pick up their spoon. And, oh, well, we ended up, i think you had a good time but you couldnt drink at that time, of course, but we served liquor afterwards and that sort of broke interviewer who were some of the interesting people that came . Katherine of course president johnson came no, president kennedy. He came and that was a fun time because i had hired the two ashworth boys and i had given them 25 cents apiece to keep rip, who had, oh, the most wonderful crowd of little boys that did everything. And i had hired bobby and jeff to keep rip. I said i dont care where you go or anything, but just keep him out of sight. Well, of course he ended up, bobby and jeff ended up listening to president kennedys speech firsthand. I mean, you went under the and then when we had a garden luncheon and when everybody was leaving, one mary, i cant remember, or one of the people that was very close to kennedy said, oh, kitsy, weve had the best time with the boys. I said, boys . I dont have any boys. She said, youve got five boys up in that tree. And it was when the old copper beech was there and all the little boys were up in the tree and they would send a basket down for food and they were filling their basket up and then the basket would come up. And then it would come down again, i gather. I never knew what he was going to do. I never knew. I could control the two girls. Cant control him now. Interviewer and eisenhower visited as well, correct . Katherine yes, he did. Interviewer and bradley, too . Katherine bradley. Interviewer what were they like . Katherine and macarthur. Its something about being the superintendent, i think, that they all if theyve been a cadet, they kind of will macarthur, really, was very polite and, you know, straight and so was general eisenhower when i got to know, and i didnt know general bradley as well as i knew i knew general eisenhower, and mamie was a very good friend and jeanie macarthur was a lovely friend. Interviewer you told me earlier they were all very nice ladies and would call you and visit. Katherine oh, yes. When west was chief of staff, i turned kind of the third floor into a guest and there was an elevator. So people could come and interviewer you frequently had mrs. Eisenhower come visit . Katherine she loved to come because her sister had a one bedroom and she had secret service. So any time she came to washington, she always stayed with us. Interviewer thats nice. Katherine and she couldnt believe, rip had her robes, bathroom, and couldnt believe the room. It was a boys room. Interviewer now, General Macarthur stayed there the night before he gave his duty, honor, country speech. Katherine no, he came and she came up and there was the review and then we took what was the ladies room and turned it over to jean and General Macarthur. And i forget what she i wanted i think just water with no ice or something, you know, like that. And they stayed in there and rested and then he went and gave interviewer i heard he rehearsed his speech. Katherine jean told me that he had never given the speech but jean told me he rehearsed on her for many nights. I dont know if thats fair to say because, you know, he did say it was interviewer your husband commanded in vietnam for over four years starting in january of 1964 to june of 1968. Tell me about your experiences during that period when he was deployed . Katherine well, we had, what, a year with the children in vietnam. Interviewer ok. Katherine oh, dear. You know, they went to school early in the morning on a school bus with chicken wire so grenades couldnt be thrown in. And there was an m. P. In the front, and an m. P. In the back. And this was not my children, it was everybodys children that went to school and then when they got to school, we had only vietnamese guards but then the hospital and the school had m. P. s. We had vietnamese guards and so did west. Interviewer what was it like living in vietnam . Katherine well, you know, if you have children, you understand, that youre really kind of scared most of the time if you want to know the truth. But youre not going to show your children that youre scared. And they were the children there were absolutely wonderful. I mean, they protected one another. We had movies at the house. And they would i mean, you were there wasnt really a bad cookie that i know of in the crowd and they had you all had a really good time. Unfortunately, the boys saw the great escape, and they started digging a tunnel in our house. And they went down in it and came out dead white. [laughter] cause it was some tunnel. Interviewer and i heard he had ordered wood after that to board it up katherine he did. And they all had sores, because oh, oh, dear. Interviewer how was the vietnamese culture . Katherine its lovely. They are a beautiful people. My main work was red cross, and i really worked almost every day i worked in the vietnamese hospital. Our hospital and then i went once a week to do Red Cross Work. Interviewer would you go by ground convoy, or katherine no. I flew. Interviewer in a huey or . Interviewer one time i was in a huey and we got shot at, but mostly i went in an airplane. Interviewer how about your daughters in vietnam . Katherine stevie had a teen club and margaret had a best friend. They had kind of a compound. The children came to our house what did you say . I mean, you stevie had [applause] [indiscernible] they were wild teenagers is what they were. Interviewer katherine she was in love with carl. And all of the vietnamese children. There were 32 of them in the back. And they would go in and watch her. Poor stevie did not realize didnt you go watch her . A little bit. [laughter] yeah. They painted this room this horrible color, red and black. Anyway, it kept him busy. Interviewer tell me a little bit about your Red Cross Work. Katherine that is work i did almost from the time i came married. I worked in vietnam and when we went to hawaii, i could not work as much, but i always work for worked at Fort Campbell and every place we were stationed. I always spent at least two days and i became a nurses aide. Interviewer did you get an award for your Red Cross Work . Katherin