About growing up in a military family, including his time as a teen in vietnam during the late 1950s. He also describes his experiences as a west point that, his years teaching at military colleges, and time when Newt Gingrich audited his class. The interview is held by the west point center for a history great it is about an hour and 40 minutes. Today is 13 november 2015, and i am in the center for oral history with Esther Kenneth g carlson. How are you, sir . Col. Kenneth carlson i am fine. Could you spell your name for us. You are not the only carlson in your class. Col. Kenneth carlson there is another one in the class with the same name. I am kenneth g carlson and i was a basketball player. Did that cause any problems for you . Col. Kenneth carlson absolutely, it did. I walked in with my bag, and the people who had the roster said you have already signed in. And i said no i havent i just walked in the door. Kenneth carlson, you have already signed in. And i said i really have not. And they said there were two. With getting his laundry which was much too small for me and he was getting mine. So now my classmates know me as Kenneth Carlson a large and he was Kenneth Carlson small. He did not like that so he is now can carlson handsome and i am can carlson large. Large. Me ken carlson tell me about your background. Col. Kenneth carlson i was born in detroit. My father deployed to world war ii just after my birth. He went to the pacific. He was going to be part of the invasion of japan from the philippines. He was an ordnance officer which was white we were in detroit. My mother and brother and i went to japan why we were in detroit. My brother and mother and i went to japan. My brother went to school program. Mail order time. Two years old at the i learned to speak japanese for i learned english. Boys a blue, blonde headed and i was speaking japanese. Back, i was three years old. We went to the naval war college. They didnt send my dad to the army or college because they wanted him to transfer to the brandnew air force. My father wanted nothing to do with the air force. They said, you are a rising guy so we have to get you some experience. They sent him to the naval workhouse. This is pretty cool. We enjoyed that time, although i was too young to remember it. We moved around 16 70 more times until we ended up in vietnam 16 or 17 more times until we ended up in vietnam. I have an article from vietnam magazine, and i published an article in this in 2009 called, my whole family served in vietnam. Ae interesting part is that lot of people say my dad or brothers served, but not many people can say my mom served in vietnam. My dad was the deputy chief of the mad under hanging sam from under mag hanging sam williams. He was the head of 50 or 60 americans. My dad was a brigadier and there was another brigadier. We lived in a nice mansion with servers and drivers. They had to go on the social circuit every night for three or four things a night. It was really bothering my mother for two reasons, she started to become an alcoholic and she was on high heels hours on end and started to hurt her back. In the middle of my second year there what year was this . Col. Kenneth carlson this was 1957 and 1958. I got there in 1957 and we came home at the end of 1958. One conference my dad was coming were timed about where they were supposed to be, he talked to someone at the conference and a huge planter outside of the Office Building blew up. It was targeted for him. He was supposed to be killed by this planter blowing up. My mother was upset about that. Later, they drove by and through a hand grenade under my school bus. Moving and is was was sitting up front, but it blew up the back of the bus and a lot of kids were cut up. Within a month, they tried to kill my dad and try to kill me. My mother was then becoming frantic. , orderspoint in time were sent to vietnam who said we want general carlson to go to startnd take them to the in laos. There wasnt anyone there except for i assume some north vietnamese. He said, no, i cannot do that. My mother stayed up all night and he stayed up all night writing a letter which was stamped topsecret. He said they are trying to kill us and a lot of different things. Where he gotack the order for his second the star and retired in 1962. How was it living in vietnam . Col. Kenneth carlson i had a lot of fun in vietnam. I was a 13yearold or 14yearold kid with a diplomatic immunity card. That got me and my friends out of a lot of trouble. I would flash it and they would have to let us go. We only went to school in the morning because it was too hot in the afternoon to stay in the classrooms. Tothe afternoon, we all went the French Sports Club in vietnam. It was near the president ial palace. It was still popular to buy french girls because their parents were working in vietnam after the french left. I would go over there and i was learning french in school and i learned french by talking to the girls in the bikinis. At 14 years old, i had to communicate with the women. I had a good time. We went to hong kong and india and side trips. We finally came home in late 1958, and we went around the world and came back from paris and i flew across the atlantic on the second 7072 ever cross the atlantic. Ow. W col. Kenneth carlson we went from paris and then back to new york. That was the first jet. A minute ago you said white mice. Col. Kenneth carlson that is the vietnamese police. They wear full uniforms and a revolver. When you see it, they were the white mice. I imagine you learn to speak french. Col. Kenneth carlson i took it throughout high school and got into advanced french and i used it in europe. If you dont lose use it, you lose it. Did you learn any vietnamese . Col. Kenneth carlson i learned some vietnamese swearwords. What year did you arrive . Col. Kenneth carlson 1962. What was your expectation when you showed up . Col. Kenneth carlson first let me say that my dad did not want me to come to west point. My brother is a 1961 graduate and he said, you are a merit scholar and you have other opportunities are you have the League Schools trying to recruit you. Why dont you do that . I said, i think i will. I will go to princeton. Then president kennedy gave his famous speech that we will go anywhere, pay any price to protect liberty. I said, dad, i have changed my mind. I want to go to west point. He said, are you sure . It is not going to be pleasant. I said i have heard stories from you and my brother, so i will be prepared. When i walked in the door, i was too well prepared. We picked up and dropped your bag and when youre told to drop your bag, you drop your bag. And he said to pick it up and i told you to drop it. I picked it up and it bounced. They told me to open it up and they saw all the foam. He is one of the guys who knows the inside stuff. I told him about my father, and then i was toast. [laughter] it was a challenge . Col. Kenneth carlson it was a challenge. I was a great student. 57th in my class out of 579. I was in the top 10 . I was not a star man, but i did not have any academic problems. One of the things they did with me is that my officer called me in and said it is never a good idea to be called in but he called me in and said i need your help. D i said, you need my help he said im giving you a new roommate. He is in the ejection seat and he is currently last in the class and if he goes deficient in anything, he is gone. He was a great hockey player. So he was moved in with me and you are the closest we have two a star man and i want you to help them with academics. Kevin would come home from hockey practice and he would say, i need to rest my eyes for just a little bit. I would lay down and say youre having a review in electrical engineering, are you prepared for that . Knowuld say, no, let me what i need to know. I brought him up 11 files. When he moved in, he was at the bottom. He ended up becoming a doctor. He was an ob gyn. That is why i never had to see him. If i looked up on an operating table and saw him operating over me, i would die on the spot. [laughter] col. Kenneth carlson he wasnt the sharpest tack. Usage said you played basketball a little . Col. Kenneth carlson you said it you played a basketball little . Col. Kenneth carlson i played for bobby knight. Bobby was working for the coach at the time. They asked bobby knight if you would be the head coach, and he said, yes. I am in the army. Get him outey would of the army and we will make you a head coach. Somebody wrote a number on a piece of paper and said, this is what we are going to pay you. He said, ok, i will do it. By been it was a handson coach. He would grab you. He used to kick the bucket of water and throw chairs across the court in the middle of basketball games. The got thrown out. He was a super basketball coach. Until mike sous chef i played for him for a year and a half and then i realized i was not going to be a starter, and then i didnt get on well which was probably my fault. I left the Basketball Team and went to other activities. As you progress through and you got ready to branch, what was in your mind . Col. Kenneth carlson we all had to go to ranger school. They did not send us to the basic course. Maybe if you want to ranger school, you might learn enough about combat that you could actually succeed in vietnam when we all knew we were going. So i said, look, this was at i was runninge infantry skills. They put us in a concrete trench and showed us tank attack. Pretty soon, there were five of them and they drive over the ditch and they told everybody to get your heads down. I amd, you know, when commission, i want to be the guy in the tank, not in the ditch. [laughter] and you are high enough that you got it . Col. Kenneth carlson yes. Were there others who were higher . Yes,. Kenneth carlson sometimes there was a guy so gung ho they go infantry. Said armor. This, ind of all of said, where are you thinking of going, wes . He said im choosing between munich and berlin. I said and this is the smartest guy in the class. I said, wes, you dont want to go to munich. Of course he chose munich. I went to berlin. How was berlin . Col. Kenneth carlson berlin was 90 miles behind the iron curtain. The berlin brigade was located there and it had three Infantry Battalions, one tank country, one artillery battery, and one detachment. Then the brits also had a brigade there and the french had a brigade. I went in as a platoon leader of company f of army. Armor. There was a guy who a lot of expense and he said, when did you graduate from the basic course . I said, sir, i have not been to the basic course. I said none of us went. He said, what do you know about tanks . He said you cant just learned by experience. 1967. January he said i will send you to a tank commander course in west germany. You will be there with a bunch of sergeants. You will learn everything about a tank. That was the smartest thing he ever did. He sent me down there and i learned how to take apart and put tanks back together in the , thend when i came back troops were no longer able to make fun of me. Before i left, i am sitting out there trying to figure out things. One sergeant asked many times i had done that, and i said, i dont know. He said you have to keep track of it because he be due to much it falls off. I was putting stuff in the logbook. The troops but this was hilarious. I was in the motor pool where i took, and one of the guys something of a tank and said, you have a longdistance call from america. I picked it up and the guy on hi, kenny,aid, its mommy. Being it ended up being a very good experience. What happened to me was we had an Immediate Reaction platoon that had to go out with 10 minutes notice. We had to be at checkpoint charlie if the russians started making noise and screwing things up again. I was called out at four clock in the morning to report to a certain block in the woods that surrounds berlin. It said to report to the commander at block 68. I hadnt been a leader very long, so i was smart enough to to be the second in line. We got out there and there was cant think of the name of the man, but i reported to him and he was in hunting close next to his mercedes. Carlson, iieutenant want you to take your platoon and go down to that on the other end of this open area and i want you to come through and when you come out of the wood line, i want you to put your unit in. Ine and come with me there were five points in line driving toward this mercedes. He said i want you to be sure to be buttoned up. Do not let me see any heads sticking out of any tanks because i want to see if you can do this without hand signals. I had no clue what was coming. We went down the road and we lined up. Hats. Ody lock your we are going right for the mercedes. I had no clue. And got outulled up and said that was outstanding. I got accommodation as a second lieutenant. Do you still have that paper . I have itth carlson in my file. I was congratulated. I met my future wife in berlin. She was working for the state department. Vietnam was going to and i was a platoon leader. Aey picked me to be commanders aid. Baldwin who was the Division Commander and Samuel Goodwin who retired as a brigadier out of the brigade. There is one story i need to tell you, which is one of my favorites. I am four days and general baldwin calls me and says we need to go and we have troops down training in the zone in west germany and we need to go. I came out and i have a sergeant who is a stenographer and a sergeant who speaks fluent german, and i asked how to get airplane reservations to get me to frankfurt and then back . Some of the gave me a vehicle and they said you have your own plane. I do . Aid, he said make sure you have handcuffs and you can care the generals plans. As a commander, he has to carry contingency plans wherever he is. He will have topsecret documents. I had no clue how to get to the airport. They said they would pick me up in a mercedes and take you. When we got there, there was a little plane. There were two pilots in front and two passengers and back. Back. We got in any general was reading time magazine. Because i am ap ranger and i am supposed to know where i am 100 of the time. I am looking at the map thinking that he was going to asked me what was down there . I am expecting him to give me a quiz. Navigating from the air is not the same as navigating from the ground. Sudden i go into a panic. I needed to know where i was. There is a general in the backseat so there must be a way to talk to the pilots. So i am looking around. There was a funnel and i said can you hear me out there . The general drops his time me why i and asked was talking into it. [laughter] said, i didnt realize. Showed let me show you how to do it. He tapped the pilot on the shoulder. I was so embarrassed and he thought it was great. When he got back, as you might expect, he said let me tell you about the first time we flew on the plane. I became the laughingstock of berlin. [laughter] you said you had experience in berlin before . Col. Kenneth carlson yes, when i was a cadet. To germany and a couple classmates and i went to berlin after we were done. Sitting by the new wall, not the new wall, but it had only been up for two years. This was 1964. Beer and areng a looking at a little old lady and she keeps looking at her watch and shelight changes never crosses the street. She looked at her watch and pulled out a pair of binoculars are to look across the wall. We stood up and looked across the wall. About five or six blocks in, a little old man keep of the seven story window with a pair of binoculars and they waved and blew a kiss. She put the binoculars in her bag and walked away. I ranver to her so over to her and asked her what she just saw. She said that was my husband. I said how is it that your husband is in east berlin and youre in west berlin . Did they wall went up, he was on a business trip and ive not been able to touch him over in over two years. The concept of freedom was never clearer in my mind. I said i wanted to be stationed want to face these guys on the other side of the wall and give them the italian salute every day. I was able to do that. My platoon was moving and we saw the russians all of the time. An incredible story. Col. Kenneth carlson that is when i said i wanted to be in berlin and mentally, i got to be in berlin and thankfully, i got to be in berlin. When did you get back home . Col. Kenneth carlson let me look at my cheat sheet here. Ok. Col. Kenneth carlson i left in october 19 68 and got home for a short leave and played straight to vietnam. Who did you go to vietnam with . Col. Kenneth carlson myself. Andas just after the siege the marines needed a lot of help and they brought us over to give more armored support because they realized when the marines were surrounded that it could have gone either way. When that brigade came over, they had a cauvery troop with them calvary troop with them. That is not where i was supposed to go. From a set of orders George Pattons son and he offered me a calvary troop at the request of general goodwin. And i gott of orders to the 90th replacement battalion and everyone was rushing to go to classes, and i am looking for a jeep. I just wanted to get out as fast as possible. Asked what iup and was doing and i said i was looking for transportation because i have orders. He took them from me and tore them in half. I asked him what he was doing. He said this is vietnam, we amn what they say. You out, and that is what i did. Wow. What was it like when you arrive at your unit . Col. Kenneth carlson when we landed, they we had to stop a couple of different places. There, they never stopped the airplane because the marine airport was under shelling. The c130 went down the runway and they opened the back and kicked our stuff out and we ran out the back door and we were handed helmets and ran for cover. Welcome to your new unit. 157 artillery coming in on us. Running off a c130 . Still moving and they just pushed it out. They handed us helmets and we meant we got our bags later on. That is an incredible welcome. Col. Carlson i had been as far north as da nang when i was a kid but i never knew where that was. The it is the forest farthest airport in north vietnam. So i got into this replacement detachment and they issued us a uniform and they told us to get patches sewn on by the local vietnamese and they gave us each an m16 rifle. I never fired an m16 rifle before and nor did they give us an opportunity to before the second night. What did you train on as a connect as a cadet . Col. Carlson m 14. Came innd night they and said are you guys officers, heres a clip for your m16, i want you to go to this bunker and you get and you to go to this bunker so i ran out and took charge of a bunker. We were under a ground attack. My rifle time i fired it jammed. I do not know what to do. Thankfully, it was not a big ground attack but it was a big attack. That was the first day and then does go days later i got called in by the Briga