Recognized we were only telling half of the story. And so with the determination and courage and perseverance, programming was designed by our panelists tonight so that we could tell the whole story of our 18th century community. Blending social history with public history to tell the africanamerican story had never been done before. And quite literally, they were making history. This is the first of three panelist discussions were going to have this year, and i would welcome you to come back on july 5th, where we will look at current programming that focuses on africanamerican stories. And also on october 18th, where we will be focusing on the future. And our panelists at that discussion will be helping us to think about how do we continue to tell this story . For as mitchell said, its really all of our story. I know our panelists well. And they have plenty to share with us. So please let me begin the evening by introducing our moderator. He began his career here at Colonial Williamsburg as a junior interpreter and then became an actor interpreter and manager of the acting interpreters and a program developer. Hes now president of his own company, so if you would join me in welcoming richard josey. [ applause ] peace and blessings. Its kind of interesting to come home. After being in the cold minnesota for a while. To see the work thats being done here, to see familiar faces, and to see my mental work and have the opportunity to be before you all and have a shared experience with you all to learn and revisit and in some cases be reminded of its not just 40 years. Ill just say a long time. A lot of hard work. A lot of sharing, caring, supporting one another. And well be informal, were going to be loose. Let me start by introducing the folks on my panel. I begin by introducing dr. Rex ellis. [ applause ] christy coleman. [ applause ] and dylan pritchett. All right. Were going to get loose. So, i think, you know, you know, we had some previous conversations, and when we talk about 40 years, which puts us back to 1979, however you heard something here that mitchell stated earlier. That there had been some work happening as early as the 40s. Before we start getting into 79 and on, i want to start in the timeframe before that. At that point in time, that was part of the corps. Not in the 40s. Not in the 40s. I was barely even walking in 79. I was in diapers. Yeah, i joined pipe and drum in 73, and it was kind of interesting before 73. Anyway, about the 70s. 72. And i dont think there had only been one africanamerican up to that point, his name was jimmy curtis. Not the silversmith jimmy curtis but another man named jimmy curtis, and he was a drummer. Later on, there were more africanamericans in the fife and drum, but you know, i think what he was speaking of is the John Hope Franklin timeframe when i think, when was that, in the 50s, there was really an effort to look at africanAmerican History and how it could be interpreted at Colonial Williamsburg. At that time, there had been stories that had come out about people who were actually in the building. In my church, the paynes, james payne and Geraldine Payne used to live on top of the house where they stayed, and they lived there and then put costumes on or colonial garb and went downstairs and interpreted the kitchen. So that was something that i dont know how that came about. I dont know what the purpose of that was. I dont know what they interpreted, but they said they interpreted africanAmerican History down there, you know, in the kitchen. I know that there were people in the kitchen, africanamericans in the kitchen, but to be real honest, were talking about employees who happen to be black, in costume, in those areas. If you were to walk in and ask them about africanAmerican History, you may not get an answer because thats not what they were there for, and they would tell you, im cooking. Or im the blacksmith, or im the silversmith. They were more craftspeople than interpreted africanAmerican History. So i think there was a need for it, and africanamericans were represented throughout the foundation all the way up to 79. But the focus wasnt on africanAmerican History. And to be honest, before even during 79, when we were first beginning, those africanamericans that were in costume still didnt want to talk about it because they were craftsmen and they wanted to talk about their craft and to be very honest, you really wouldnt want them to because they werent versed enough, because we found in what we were doing is that if you cant answer some basic questions, then your credibility gets shot real quick. So unless you were hired and trained to interpret African Americans history, it really wasnt fair to think that they could take on that burden. I dont mean burden as in a negative but it can get burdensome. So i think what the president was really speaking of was that there was always a presence, there was always a knowledge that half the population of williamsburg in the 18th century was black, but how to interpret it, they really hadnt delved into it. And to be honest, personally, i think that it was the right time when we started doing it. And it was time people were thinking about social issues, people were thinking about women, womens history, and people kind of loosening up. But just like today, folks still aint too loose about talking about slavery. You know. But then, that has to do with how we have learned it and how we have been mistaught about the institution itself and for some reason, we think that thats a color issue when its the institution we dont understand. And we dont understand color. Because what we were trying to do is to teach the institution and people and make it very personable. I know i kind of went a little far, but those early years, those were the years that were very interesting years because there was an effort to employ our africanamericans. Knowing they represented the other half of the population in the 18th century. They employed them as blacksmiths and as carriage drivers and as sculler y mates, and they dressed them that way. Even though they were craftsmen, even though they were trained people, its interesting. The dichotomy was they were hired because they represented the diversity of williamsburg, especially africanamericans. But in their hiring, many of them focused their attention on what they did, not who they were doing. But foundation understood very well that it had to have a representation of africanamericans, so there were africanamericans who happened to be africanamerican who was a carriage driver or a book binder, or who happened to be an africanamerican, but they understood that they were hiring them to legitimize the concept of historical accuracy within the foundation. When we came on, we did not we knew that we werent being hired to be per se a tradesman. We were hired to interpret africanAmerican History in one of the most unorthodox ways of interpreting it, and thats through theater. So like guerilla theater rather than theater in the legitimate sense. So when the program came, it sort of began to focus on, yes, africanAmerican History is important. We want to interpret it. In the 1940s, as dylan mentioned, the payne family, they lived in the whip house above the kitchen. And during the day when mr. Payne was going about doing his duties as a custodian of the property, he would be in costume. He would be doing what you would do in terms of cleaning the house and the other chores he had. But he did it in costume. So there was a full awareness that he was being used as a person to represent something, but there wasnt the attendant responsibility of being of having information about africanAmerican History so that you might be able to interpret that and the part of the story. That would come a few years later with 1966 in 19th century williamsburg where it became a seminole work and a bible for interpretati interpretation. It was a compilation of a lot of work from the archeologists and historians on staff and others as they dug through the record, which was rich in terms of the presence of africanamericans, and yet, there was still large gaps. Now, you know, the other thing, too, that i think we cannot ignore with those early africanamerican Staff Members who were working in the historic area is that whether they wanted to interpret it or not, visitors would constantly address them that way. And that was part of the irritation when this actually, when this Program Actually came along, because they had been working so hard to be seen as professional, had been working so hard to have been seen as people who were mastering an 18th century craft or skill. And they didnt want their roles diminished by the visitor, frankly, who would say completely inappropriate things to them. And frankly, that still happens. Yeah. So you know, so thats sort of the additional layer, i think, to why there was this mix of resistance from black people in some cases and in fact from other interpreters throughout the historic area when this came along. I think theres another important social i think theres another important social event that also heralds why it became important in 79, and that was in 1977. For the first time, america saw the story of a black family when roots came out. I think these confluences, as dylan said, it was the right time. And there was no better person to do it to get this going. You know, there was i just thought of three things. One is when rex was speaking of people in the Historic Buildings in costume, what 79 did was put people on the street and now the Costume Design Center had to come up with what are they wearing. Right. So that now, your shirt is different. Youre wearing a linen shirt. Now, you know, so your shoes have to be different. Everything kind of changed. So now, you have people authentically dressed as black folks on the street, not just as a cook. And that means that the black cook its easy for me to say black because, you know, because now the black cook is not dressed the way a black cook would have dressed. Shes dressed the way any cook would have dressed. And so now, when people see black folks on the streets with a hat on, they go into a kitchen and start asking inappropriate questions, who are you . Thats the biggest question that i can remember, that people didnt like because they would see a character portrayal on the street, and then they equate, okay, theres another black person. Who are you . Well, we just saw them there. Who are you. Then theres an actual printer, wont mention names, but a person who was actually the master printer of the shop who wants to say im the master printer of the shop. But you know, thats not what the visitor is asking. The visitor is asking who are you. Its not that the visitor didnt ask that question, but the visitor was also very interested in that person, that individual. And thats where we got a great deal of what i say ire, a great deal of anger from tradesmen who really wanted to focus their attention on the trade. On the technology. On the im a silversmith, a book binder, a carpenter. They wanted to focus their attention on that. We came to town saying we want you to ask us about africanAmerican History. As a matter of fact, were going to create these characters that focus their attention on letting you know what life was like for africanamericans during the 18th century. And these characters fully researched, i mean, meticulously researched in many ways by the Research Department who sort of put us on the map, but we also put the Research Department on the map. Right, right . You understand that. Well, one of the reasons i say we put them on the map is because martha began to ask questions about slave objects and about material culture, and john hefbill and harold gill began to ask questions about africanamericans in the 18th century. That opened the door, then there were historians who had to in some way begin to fill in the blanks of what was going on within the africanamerican community. There are archeologists who were seeing remains that were africanamerican that they were simply saying we have to document it and cover it up. They werent doing that anymore. They were beginning to ask questions and beginning to find new questions to ask about the 18th century that gave us fodder for new information but also gave a new history that was part of what christy said, the social Historical Perspective that was coming out around i guess the 80s and 90s, and all of that seemed to Work Together in a way that allowed us to do and interpret do interpretive programs that we are very proud of. There may be a question of, well, 79. What happened in 1979 is they wanted to have characters on the streets, but at the same time, in 1979, a man named peter pippen came from the africanamerican History Museum in d. C. And under the direction of john lewis, who had asked, they wanted to do a black music program. And that was the very First Program that was ever done in the historic area, was the black music program. So while and rex was my speech teacher at hampton. Worst student ever. He came to me, he came to me on the first day of class and said, um, you know, i worked at Colonial Williamsburg. I know how to talk. Can i just not do this class at all . What in the world is this arrogant young man saying he doesnt have to do this . From there to becoming one of my best friends. God only knows. I played the fife for extra credit. Thats right. Black folks in there saying what is he playing . But what happened was rex, monty combs, eddy allen. Darren taylor. Darren taylor, were hired to walk the streets. So this young man who had this shop as a barber, i gave him a call to let him know that barber was one of the first characters on the street. That eye on him, you know, because thats 40 years, and the barber is still here. That says something, yall. He took a long hiatus, but he was one of the first. But it was nice to see tim with a shop, and that was big. He didnt know that, but then he wasnt here 40 years ago. So this is the first time people on the streets, and then there was an Evening Program of black music. If you ever see this photograph, did you have the long drum . Lamont carter, who has passed, Lamont Carter worked in the boot shop. Had very little rhythm. Very little rhythm, but lamont he was one of the few africanamericans who were interested in helping us interpret africanAmerican History. God rest his soul. Yes, god rest his soul. And rex, monty cone, eddy allen, and one more. I wrote them down. Oh, preston jones, who is still around. Oh, preston. He was one of the first. Were talki ing about, you know, but you know, that helped. I thought ruthy was in there. Ruth was later. Ruth was 80. I got her down. But she was yeah. But that in the beginning even shows that, you know, people were willing. I mean, we had two craftsmen who were willing to help. So dont want to sound like people didnt want. We just hadnt gone through the training, the training of the interpreters, of how to, because they had never really had that focus, but now they were getting the focus. White interpreters and black interpreters because they were meeting these people on the streets, and also, during this time is when children, thats a little later, ill save that. Well, i mean, rex, when they came to talk to you, who came to talk to you at hampton about this . I think thats an interesting story. Harvey cradle. Shomer dwelling, and i believe denny otoole was in the group. They came to Hampton University and said they wanted some of our actors. I was teaching in the Speech Communications and Theater Arts Department at that point. They came to hampton and said, well, i was actually was teaching an acting class at that point, and the chairman of the department called me into his office and said, theres somebody in this office i would like you to listen to. And harvey said, in essence, he wanted some of our actors to audition to play the parts of slaves at Colonial Williamsburg. You dont go to a predominantly black cheollege and make a Statement Like that unless you are three beers short of a sixpack or your cause is just. And so we sat him down, and he said we want to begin to talk about the other half of the population in williamsburg during the 18th century. Now, rex was a year old when we left the county and i came to Williams Burg to live from the time i was a year old until i graduated from high school, i never knew that half the population in williamsburg was black. I knew one of my next door neighbors was the housekeeper at the lodge. I had no idea there was this kind of history. Fool that i was, i said if youre going to do something positive for black folk in williamsburg, ill audition for it. And so it was me, it was darren taylor, it was monty combs who were the first three africanamerican interpreters in that year. And then, and then harvey cradle, who had begun the program, creating a character, what was the name of this character . A ner do well who was always in the jail in the pillory. And he always the crowd loved him because it was a way of teaching history that used theater as a way of introducing and connecting audiences to characters that were 18th century characters. Well, his character was a ner do well who was always in jail, but the crowd loved him. So the next year, he did this in 80, in 73, in no, in 78. And in 79, they saw enough of what he was doing and this sort of new burgeoning Living History Program that they asked him to hire six other people to help him create this Living History Program in williamsburg. So heres this guy saying at Hampton University, he didnt say were going to try to begin a new pr