Transcripts For CSPAN3 Interpreting Slavery At Colonial Will

Programming with designs by our panelists tonight, so that we could tell the whole story of our 18th century community. Blending social history with public history to tell the africanamerican story has never been done before. And quite literally, they were making history. This is the first of three panelist discussions that we are going to have this year. And i would welcome you to come back on july 5, when we will look at current programming that focuses on African American stories, and also on october 18, where we will be focusing on the future, and our panelists at that discussion will be helping us to think about, how do we continue to tell the story . Lawrence mitchell said it really is all of our story. Now i know our panelists well. And they have plenty to share with us. So, please let me begin the evening by introducing our moderator. He began his career here at Colonial Williamsburg as a junior interpreter, and became an active interpreter and manager of the interpreters. And also a program developer. And he is now president of his own company. So, if you would join me in welcoming Richard Josie. [ applause ] peace and blessings. It is kind of interesting to come home. After being in the cold minnesota for a while. To see the work that is being done here, to see familiar faces. To see my mentors, and have the opportunity to speak before you all, and have a shared experience with you all, to learn and revisit, and in some cases, be reminded of, its not just 40 years. I will just say a long time. A lot of hard work. A lot of sharing, caring. Supporting one another. And, the stories were going to be informal. We are going to be loose. So, let me start by introducing the folks who are on my panel. I begin by introducing dr. Rex alice. Rex ellis. [ applause ] christy coleman. [ applause ] dallas richards. [ applause ] so, i think, you know, we had previous conversations. Move to talk about four years in which took us back to 1979. However you heard something here that mitchell stated earlier, that there had been some work happening as early as the 40s. Before we start getting into 79 and on, i want to start in the timeframe before that. At that point in time, was not in the 40s. Not in the 40s. Announcer 2 i think it is 73. And it was kind of interesting. Anyway, about the 70s. 72. And, i dont think, there has only been one africanamerican and up to that point. His name was jimmy carters. Another man named jimmy curtis. He was a drummer. And later on, there were more africanamericans in the pipe and drum. But, you know, i think what he was speaking of is franklin timeframe when, i think when was that . In the 50s . That was really an effort to look at africanamericans history and how it can be interpreted at Colonial Williamsburg at the time, that some stories out of come out about people who are actually in the building. In my church. The pains. James pain and pain used to live on top of the woodhouse. Thats where they stayed. And they lived there and they put costumes on or colonial garb and went downstairs and interpreted the kitchen. And, that was something that i dont know how that came about. I dont know what the purpose of that was. I dont know what they interpreted, but they said they interpreted africanAmerican History down there. You know, in the kitchen. And i know that there were people in the kitchens, African Americans in the kitchen. But to be real honest, were talking about employees who happen to be black. And costume in those areas. And if you were to walk in and ask them about africanAmerican History, you may not get an answer. Because that is not what they were therefore. , they would tell you, i am cooking. Are i am the care i am the silversmith. They were more craftspeople than interpreting African American history. So, i think that there was a need for an africanamerican representative throughout the foundation, all the way up until 79. But the focus was not on africanAmerican History. And, to be honest, before, even during 79, when we were at the very beginning, those African Americans that were in costumes still didnt want to talk about it. Because, they were craftsmen. They didnt want to talk about their craft. And to be very honest, you really wouldnt want them to. Because, they were not versed in a. Because we found him what we were doing, is that if you can ask some basic questions, then your credibility is shot real quick. Suck unless you were trained to interpret africanAmerican History, it really wasnt fair to think that they could take on that burden. I dont mean burden as in the negative, but it can be burdensome. So, i think what the president was really speaking of was that there was always a presence. There was always a knowledge that half the population of williamsburg in the 18th century was black. But, how to interpret it, really had delved into it. And, to be honest, personally, i think that it was the right time, when we started doing it. And, at time people were thinking about social issues. People thinking about womens history, and the people kind of loosening up. But as, just like today, folks to loose talking about slavery. But that has to do with how we have learned it. And how we have been missed taught about the institution itself. For some reason, we think that that is a color issue, when its the institution we dont understand. And we dont understand color because what we were trying to do is teach the institution, people, and make it very personable. I know i kind of went a little far. But, those early years were very interesting years. Because, there was an effort to [ inaudible ] they represented the other half of the population during the 18th century. They employed them as blacksmiths and as carriage drivers, and as and they dressed them in that way. So, even though they were craftspeople or they were tradespeople, its interesting that colony was, they were hired because they represented the diversity of williamsburg, especially africanamerican. But in their hiring, the memory of them focused their attention on what they did. Not who they were doing it for. But, the foundation understood very well that it had to have a representation of African Americans. Of who happen to be African American. Was a carriage driver, or a book writer. Who happens to be an African American. But they understood that they were hiring them to legitimize the concept of historical accuracy when we came on board, we did not, we knew that we were not being hired to be, per se, a tradesman. We were hired to interpret africanAmerican History and one of the most unorthodox ways of interpreting it. And that is through theater. So theater rather than theater in the legitimate sense. Of program came, it started began to focus on, yes, African American history is important because we want to interpreted. In the 1940s, the pain family, they lived in the woodhouse. Above the kitchen. During the day, when mr. Payne was going about doing his duties, as a custodian of the property, he would be in costume. He was doing what you would do in terms of cleaning the whip house and the other chores that he had. But he did it in costume. So, there was a full awareness that he was being used as a person to represent something. But there wasnt the attendant responsibility of being, of having information about africanAmerican History, she might be able to interpret that as a part of the story. Speak that would come a few years later. 1966. 18thcentury williamsburg where it became a seminal work. And really the bible for interpretation. It was a compilation of a lot of work from the archaeologist and the historians that were on staff. And others that they dug to the record. Which was rich the presence of africanamericans. And yet, there was still large gaps. Now, you know, the other thing, too. That i think we cannot ignore, with those early African American Staff Members who were working in the historic area is that whether they wanted to interpreted or not, visitors were constantly addressing them that way. And that was part of the irritation, when this Program Actually came along, because they had been working so hard to be seen as professionals, have been working so hard to have been seen as people who were during an 18 century crafter skill. They did not want their role diminished by the visitor, frankly, who would say, completely inappropriate things to them. And frankly, that still happens. So, you know, that is sort of the additional layer, i think, to why there was this mix of resistance from black people in some cases, and in fact, from other interpreters throughout the historic area when this came on. Think there is another important social, i think is another important social event that also heralds why it became important in 79. That was a 1977. For the first time, americans saw the story of a black family when roots came out. So, i think this confluence is, as dylan said, it was the right time. And there was no better person to do it. To get this going. You know, there was i just thought of three things. One, is was rexall speaking of Historic Building in costume. What 79 did was put people on the streets, and now, the Costume Design Center had to come up with what are they wearing . So, now, now, your shirt is different. You are wearing a linen shirt. You got on. Now, so, your shoes have to be different. Everything kind of change. So, now, you have people authentically dressed as black folks on the street. Not just as a cook. And that means that the black a because now, the black cook is not dressed the way a black cook would have dressed. Seems like the way any cook would address. So now, when people see black folks on the street, with a hat on, they go into a kitchen and start asking an appropriate question, who were you. That is the biggest question that i can remember. That craftspeople did not like. Because they see a character per trail on the street, and then they quick, theres a black person. Who are you . We just saw who are you . And then, there is an actual printer. What was your name. But there is that person who was actually the master printer of the shop. Who wants to say i am the master printer of the shop . Thats not what the visitor is asking. The visitor is asking, who are you . Is not that the visit did not ask a question. The visitor was also very interested in that person, that individual. And that, that is where we got a great deal of what i say i are. Great deal of anger. From tradesman who really wanted to focus their attention on the trade. Acknowledge it. On the, you know, i am a silversmith there, but my binder. Me carpenter. Whatever it was, they wanted to focus their attention on that. We came to town saying, we want you to ask us about African Americans. Were going to create these characters that focus their attention on letting you know what life was like for African Americans during the 18th century. And these characters fully researched. Meticulously recharged in many ways by the Research Department who sort of put us on the map. But we also put the Research Department on the map. One of the reasons i say we put them on the map is because began to ask questions about slaves objects and about material culture. And, John Hatfield and began to ask questions about African Americans in the 18th century. That open the door. But then there were historians who had to, in some way, begin to fill in the blanks of what was going on within the African American community. Archaeologists who werent seeing, they are seeing remains that were africanamericans that there is nothing saying that documented cover it up. They were doing that anymore. They were beginning to ask questions and beginning to find new questions to ask. About the 18th century that gave us father for new information. But also, give them in many instances, they will look at history that was part of what kristi said. The social, Historical Perspective that was coming out around the 80s and 90s. And all of that seemed to work together. In a way that allowed us to do and in, and interpretive programs that we were very proud of. There may be a question of what is 79 . What happened in 1979 is that they wanted to have did characters on the street. But at the same time, in 1979, a man named Peter Pickford came from the africanAmerican History museum in dc and under the direction of john mont who asked, they wanted to do black Music Program. And that was the very First Program that was ever done in the historic area was a black Music Program. So, while, and dictate my speech teacher at hampton. And, for student ever. [ laughter ] he came to me. He came to me on the first day of class and said, i did you know how to talk. Can i just not do this class at all . Who in the world is this arrogant man coming in telling me he doesnt have to do 103 . That to becoming one of my best friends. God only knows. [ laughter ] i played the site for extra credit. Thats right. Had black folks and theyre going to play . What happened was rex Darren Taylor were hired to walk the streets. Of this young man named, this young man who has a shot is father, i give him a call to let them know that is one of the first characters on the street. Because that 40 years in is still here. That says something, yall. He took a long hiatus. But he wasnt the first. But it was nice to see him with the shop. And that was big. He did not know that. But then, he wasnt here 40 years ago. But, so, this was the first time people on the street, and middle of the Evening Program a black music. If you ever see this, this photograph, just to its Lamont Carter who was passed. Lamont carter was he worked in the bookshop. Had very little rhythm. Very little rhythm. But lamont was one of the few africanamericans who was interested in helping us interpret africanAmerican History. Yes. God rest his soul. And rex, monty cullen, eddie allen, and there is one more. I wrote them down. Deborah was later. Preston jones. He still around. O, preston. Preston was one of the first. Preston and lamont would fight for the bell because of, you know, but you know, that helped i thought ruth was with was later. Rentals later. I got her down. But, yeah, she was yeah. And, the that in the beginning, even shows that, you know, people were willing. I mean, we had two craftsmen that were willing to help. So, as people didnt want us just that we had not gone to the chain of the training of interpreters of how to, because they had never really had that kind of focus. But now, they were getting the focus. They were meeting these people on the streets. And also during this time, is when children dig it up a little later. Okay. I will save that. Rest, when they came to talk to you, who came to talk to you about this . I think thats an interesting story. Harvey cradle. Willing. I believe daniel toole was in the group. They came to Hampton University and said they wanted some of our actors. I was teaching in the Speech Communications and theater Art Department at the point. And they can to hampton and said, look, i actually was teaching an acting class at that point, and they, the chairman of the department, called me into his office. And said, there is somebody in this office i would like you to listen to. And harvey said, in essence, he wanted some of our actors to addition to play the parts of slaves at Colonial Williamsburg. Now, you dont go to a predominantly black college, and make a Statement Like that, unless you are three years short of a sixpack, or your cause is just. So, we sat him down. And he said, we want to begin to talk about the other half of the population in williamsburg in the 18th century. Rex was a year old when we left Surrey County and i came to williamsburg to live. From the time i was a year old, until i graduated from high school, i never knew that half the population in williamsburg was black. I knew williamsburg as a place where my nextdoor neighbor was the head chef at the at the old motor house. I knew that one of my other nextdoor neighbors was the housekeeper at the lodge. I had no idea that there was this kind of history. So, fool that i was, i said, if youre going to do something positive for black folk in williamsburg, i will audition for you. So, it was me, it was Darren Taylor. And monty combs. Who were the first three africanamerican interpreters. And, not eddie not. And then, and then, harvey cradle, who had begun the program, creating a character, what was the name of this character . A neerdowell character that was always in the jail and the pillory. And, he always, the crowd loved him. Because it was a way of teaching history that used theater as a way of introducing and connecting audiences to characters that were 18th century characters. Well, his character was a neer dowell. A poor neerdowell who was always in jail. Responsible. But the crowd loved him. So, the next year, he did this in 80 and 73. In no. In 78. And and 79, they thought enough of what he was doing, and the sort of new burgeoning Living History Program, that they asked him to hire six other people to help him create this Living History Prog