Perseverance, programming was designed by our panelists tonight so that we could tell the whole story of our 18th century community. Blending social history with public history to tell the africanamerican story had never been done before. And quite literally they were making history. This is the first of three panelist discussions that were going to have this year, and i would welcome you to come back on july 5th where we will look at current programming that focuses on africanamerican stories and also on october 18th where we will be focusing on the future and our panelists at that discussion will help us think about how do we continue to tell the story for, as mitchell said, it really is all of our story. I know our panelists well, and they have plenty to share with us. So please let me begin the evening by introducing our moderator. He began his career here as a junior interpreter and then became an active interpreter and manager and also a program developer. If you would join me in welcoming richard josey. [ applause ] peace and blessings. Its kind of interesting to come home after being in the cold of minnesota for a while. To see familiar faces and to see my mentors and have the opportunity to be before you all and have a shared experience with you all and revisit and in some cases be reminded of its not just 40 years. Ill just say a long time. A lot of hard work, a lot of sharing, caring, supporting one another. The stories well have with you tonight, well be informal, well be loose. Let me start by introducing the folks from my panel. I begin by introducing dr. Rex ellis. [ applause ] christy coleman. [ applause ] and dylan pritchett. [ applause ] i told you i was going to get loose. I think weve had some previous conversations and we talk about 40 years which puts us back to 1979. However, you heard something here that mitchell stated earlier that there had been some work happening as early as the 40s. So before we start getting into 79 and on, i want to stop the time frame before that. Dylan was part not in the 40s. Not in the 40s. I was barely able to walk in 79. I was in diapers. A baby performance every night. Yeah, i was in fife and drum i think in 73 and it was kind of interesti interesting, about 70 or 72. I dont think there had only been one africanamerican in fife and drum up to that point. Another man named jimmy curtis. He was a drummer and later on more africanamericans in the fife and drum. Speaking of the franklin time of frame when i think in the 50s there was really an effort to look at africanAmerican History and how it could be interpreted at Colonial Williamsburg. At that there had been stories that come out about people in the buildings, in my church. The paynes, james and Geraldine Payne used to live on top of the house. Thats where they stayed. They lived there and put costumes on or colonial garb and went downstairs and interpreted the kitchen. And so that was something that i dont know how that came about. I dont know what the purpose of that was. I dont know what they interpreted. They say they interpreted africanAmerican History down there in the kitchen. I know there were people in the kitchen, africanamericans in the kitchen. They, to be real honest, were talking about employees who happen to be black in costume in those areas. And if you were to walk in and ask them about africanAmerican History, you may not get an answer. Thats not what they were there for. Im a silver smith. Interpreting africanAmerican History. I think there was a need for it and africanamericans were represented throughout the foundation all the way up to 79. The focus wasnt on africanAmerican History and, to be honest, before even during 79 when we were first beginning, those africanamericans that were in costume still didnt want to talk about it. They wanted to talk about their craft and, to be very honest, you really wouldnt want them to. We found what we were doing is that if you cant answer some basic questions then your credibility gets shot real quick. And so unless you were hired and trained it wasnt fair to think they could take on that burden and i dont mean burden as in a negative but it can get burdensome. And so i think what the president was really speaking of there was always a presence. There was a knowledge of williamsburg in the 18th century was black, but how to interpret it really hadnt delved into it. And, to be honest, personally i think that it was the right time when we started doing it. It was time people were thinking about social issues. People thinking about women, womens history. And people loosening up. People just like today, folks still aint too loose to talk about slavery. That has to do with how we have learned it and how weve been mistaught about the institution itself and for some reason we think thats a color issue. And we dont understand color. What we were trying to do is to teach people and make it very personable. I know i went a little far. Those early years were very interesting years because there was an effort to move forward for africanamericans knowing that they represented the other half of the population during the 18th century. They employed them as blacksmiths and as carriage drivers and as scholar inmates, and they dressed them in that way. So even though they were crafts people, they were trades people, its interesting. The dichotomy was they were hired because they represented the diversity of williamsburg, especially africanamerican. In their hiring many of them focused their attention on what they did not who they were doing. But the foundation understood very well that it had to have a representation of africanamericans so there were africanamericans who happened to be africanamerican who was a carriage driver or a book binder or africanamerican but they understood they were hiring them to legitimize the con seccept o historical accuracy. When we came onboard we knew we werent being hired to be, per se, a tradesman. We were hired to interpret africanAmerican History. And thats through theater. When the program came it sort of began to focus on, yes, africanAmerican History is important and we want to interpret it. In the 1940s the payne family, they lived in the house above the kitchen. During the day when mr. Payne was going about doing his duties as a custodian of the property, he would be in costume. Now he would be doing what he would do in terms of cleaning the house and the other chores that he had but he did it in costume. There was a full awareness he was being used as a person to represent something. There wasnt the attendant responsibility of being of having information about africanAmerican History so that you might be able to interpret that as a part of the story. And that would come a few years later in 1966 in williamsburg, what became a seminal work and really the bible for interpretation. It was the compilation of a lot of work from the archaeologists and historians on staff and others as they dug through the record, which was rich in terms of the presence of africanamericans, and yet there was still large gaps. Now, you know, the other thing, too, i think we cannot ignore with those early africanamerican Staff Members who were working in the historic area whether they wanted to interpret it or not, visitors would constantly address them that way, and that was part of the irritation when this actually when this program came along because they had been working so hard to be seen as professionals, had been working so hard to have been seen as people who were mastering an 18th century craft or skill and they didnt want their roles diminished by the visitor, frankly, who would say completely inappropriate things to them. And, frankly, that still happens. Yes. So thats sort of the additional layer, i think, to why there was a mix of resistance from black people in some cases and, in fact, from other interpreters throughout the historic area when this came along. I think theres another important social derek i think theres another important social event that also heralds why it became important in 79 and that was in 1977. For the first time america saw the story of a black family when roots came out. So i think these confluences, as dylan said, it was the right time. And there was no better person to do it to get this going. I just thought of three things. One is when rex was speaking of people in the Historic Buildings in costume what 79 did was put people on the street and now the Costume Design Center had to come up with what are they wearing . Right. So now your shirt is different. Youre wearing a linen shirt and now, you know, your shoes have to be different. Everything has kind of changed. Now you have people authentically dressed as black folks on the street. Not just as a cook and that means that the black cook, its easy for me to say black because black, africanamerican, you know, because now the black cook is not dressed the way a black cook would have dressed. Shes dressed the way any cook would have dressed. Now when people see black folk on the street with a hat on, they go into a kitchen and that inappropriate question, who are you . That is the biggest question that i can remember that crafts people didnt like. They would see a carriharacter portrayal on the street and see another black person, who are you . We just saw out there, who are you . The actual printer, wont mention names, the actual master print eaer of the shop who wanto say im the master printer of the shop, but thats not what the visitor was asking. The visitor was asking, who are you . The visitor was also very interested in that person, that individual, and thats where we got a great deal of what i say ire, a great deal of anger from tradesmen who really wanted to focus their attention on the trade. On the technology. On the im a silver smith, a book binder, whatever it was. Foe wanted to focus their attention on that. We came to town saying we want to you ask us about africanAmerican History. As a matter of fact well create these characters that focus their attention on letting you know what life was like for africanamericans during the 18th century. And these characters fully researched, i mean, meticulously researched by the Research Department who sort of put us on the map. We also put the Research Department on the map. Right, right, right . One of the reasons i say we put them on the map is because we began to ask questions about slave objects and about material culture and gilligan to ask questions about africanamericans in the 18th century. Tate opened the door but then there were historian who is had to in some way begin to fill in the blanks of what was going on within the africanamerican community. There were archaeologist who is were seeing remains that were africanamerican and saying lets document it and cover it up. They werent doing that anymore. They were beginning to ask questions and beginning to find new questions to ask about the 18th century that gave us fodder for new information but also gave them, in many instances, a new look into history that was part of what christy said, the social Historical Perspective that was coming out around the 80s and 90s. It allowed us to do programs were very proud of. There may be a question of whats 79 . What happened in 1979 they wanted to have characters on the street but at the same time in 1979 a man named peter pippen came from the africanamerican History Museum in d. C. Under the direction of john moon who had asked, they wanted to do a black Music Program and that was the very First Program that was ever done in the historic area was a black Music Program. And rex was my speech teacher at hampton. The worst student ever. He came to me he came to me on the first day of class and said, um, i work at Colonial Williamsburg. I know how to talk. Can i just not do this class at all . Who in the world is this arrogant young man coming and telling me he doesnt have to do speech 103 . From there to becoming one of my best friends. God only knows. I played the fife for extra credit. Thats right. I have black folks in there going, what is he playing . 18th century stuff . But what happened was rex, eddie allen darren taylor, were hired to walk the streets so this young man who has a shop as a barber, i gave him a call to let him know one of the first characters on the street because thats 40 years and is still here. That says something, you all. He took a long hiatus. He wasnt the first. It was nice to see him with a shop and that was big. He didnt know that but he wasnt here 40 years ago. This was the first time people on the streets and then there was an Evening Program of black music. If you ever see this photograph did you have the long drum the long drum. Its Lamont Carter who has passed. He worked in the boot shop. Had very little rhythm. Very little rhythm. But lamont he was one of the few africanamericans who were interested in helping us interpret africanAmerican History, so god rest his soul. God rest his soul. Cones, eddie allen and theres one more. I wrote them down. Was it deborah . Deborah was later. Preston jones, who is still around. Preston was one of the first. Preston and i would fight for the bell. But you know, that helped i thought ruthie ruth is later. Oh, i have her down. That in the beginning even shows people were willing. We had two craftsmen that were willing to help. We dont want it to sound like people didnt want. We hadnt gone through the training, the training of the interpreters of how to because they had never really had that kind of focus. But now they were getting the focus. White interpreters as well as black interpreters because they were meeting the people on the street. Also during this time is when children thats later. Thats a little bit later, okay. Ill save that. Rex, when they came to talk to you, who came to talk to you at hampton about this . I think thats an interesting story. Harvey cradle, i believe denny otoole was in the group. They came to Hampton University and said they wanted some of our actors. They came and said, well, i actually was teaching an acting class at that point and the chairman of the department called me into his office and said theres somebody in the office i would like you to listen to. And harvey said, in essence, he wanted some of our actors to audition, to play the parts of slaves at Colonial Williamsburg. Now you dont go to a predominantly black college and make a Statement Like that unless you are three beers short of a six pack or your cause is just. And so we sat him down, and he said, we want to begin to talk about the other half of the population in williamsburg during the 18th century. Now rex was a year old when we left and i came to williamsburg to live. From the time i was a year old until i graduated from high school i never knew that half the population in williamsburg was black. I knew williamsburg as a place my next door neighbor was the head chef at the old motor house. I knew that one of my other next door neighbors was the housekeeper at the lodge. I had no idea there was this kind of history. So fool that i was, i said if youre going to do something positive for black folk in williamsburg, ill audition for you. And so it was me, darren taylor, monte combs who were the first three africanamerican interpreters. Not eddie, not that year. And then harvey cradle, who had begun the program, creating a character what was the name of this character . Was always in the jail in the pillory. And he always the crowd loved him because it was a way of teaching history that used theater as a way of introducing and connecting audiences to characters that were 18th century characters. Well, his character was a poor never do well who was always in jail, irresponsible. But the crowd loved him and so the next year in 73 no, in 78. And in 79 they thought enough of what he was doing and the sort of new burgeoning Living History Program that they asked him to hire six other people to help him create in williamsburg. Here is this guy saying at Hampton University we want he didnt say we would try to begin a new program. He didnt say folks would be upset, he said we would like to you come and work with Colonial Williamsburg and begin this program. That first year was pretty rough. Because harvey had this idea of us being in character and never breaking character but staying in character throughout. After about one week i said this is not going to work, so i called darren, i called monte, and we went to harveys office. I said this is not going to work. People are getting confused. They dont know who we are, what were doing. They think we are from eastern state and have come here to do something that is totally irresponsible. You have to break character. He said, no, no, no, no. We cant do that. Thats not my vision. I stayed, you dont understand, harvey, this is a Part Time Job for me. Im going back to Hampton University when this is over. We either try it this way or i dont need this job that bad. And so we then create add program where we broke character. I would introduce the character, ladies and gentlemen, who i was. I would do the character and then i would turn around again and break character. Now i could talk about 18th century history. I could talk about what we learned in order to get the programs together. So it was that burgeoning Living History Program that had the extra burden of interpreting a controversial history. So we were using a controversial presentation technique to interpret one of the most controversial subjects that we could in an 18th century environment and that was slavery. That gets me to an interesting thing. I remember my grandmother telling me, because she would bring me to the lodge, and i remember her telling me about how black folks in grove felt about williamsburg. She would talk to me about how, you know, long before williamsburg was here