Transcripts For CSPAN3 Interpreting Slavery At Colonial Williamsburg 20240714

Perseverance, programming was designed by our panelists tonight so that we could tell the whole story of our 18th century community. Blending social history with public history to tell the africanamerican story had never been done before. And quite literally they were making history. This is the first of three panelist discussions that were going to have this year, and i would welcome you to come back on july 5th where we will look at current programming that focuses on africanamerican stories and also on october 18th where we will be focusing on the future and our panelists at that discussion will help us think about how do we continue to tell the story for, as mitchell said, it really is all of our story. I know our panelists well, and they have plenty to share with us. So please let me begin the evening by introducing our moderator. He began his career here as a junior interpreter and then became an active interpreter and manager and also a program developer. If you would join me in welcoming richard josey. [ applause ] peace and blessings. Its kind of interesting to come home after being in the cold of minnesota for a while. To see familiar faces and to see my mentors and have the opportunity to be before you all and have a shared experience with you all and revisit and in some cases be reminded of its not just 40 years. Ill just say a long time. A lot of hard work, a lot of sharing, caring, supporting one another. The stories well have with you tonight, well be informal, well be loose. Let me start by introducing the folks from my panel. I begin by introducing dr. Rex ellis. [ applause ] christy coleman. [ applause ] and dylan pritchett. [ applause ] i told you i was going to get loose. I think weve had some previous conversations and we talk about 40 years which puts us back to 1979. However, you heard something here that mitchell stated earlier that there had been some work happening as early as the 40s. So before we start getting into 79 and on, i want to stop the time frame before that. Dylan was part not in the 40s. Not in the 40s. I was barely able to walk in 79. I was in diapers. A baby performance every night. Yeah, i was in fife and drum i think in 73 and it was kind of interesti interesting, about 70 or 72. I dont think there had only been one africanamerican in fife and drum up to that point. Another man named jimmy curtis. He was a drummer and later on more africanamericans in the fife and drum. Speaking of the franklin time of frame when i think in the 50s there was really an effort to look at africanAmerican History and how it could be interpreted at Colonial Williamsburg. At that there had been stories that come out about people in the buildings, in my church. The paynes, james and Geraldine Payne used to live on top of the house. Thats where they stayed. They lived there and put costumes on or colonial garb and went downstairs and interpreted the kitchen. And so that was something that i dont know how that came about. I dont know what the purpose of that was. I dont know what they interpreted. They say they interpreted africanAmerican History down there in the kitchen. I know there were people in the kitchen, africanamericans in the kitchen. They, to be real honest, were talking about employees who happen to be black in costume in those areas. And if you were to walk in and ask them about africanAmerican History, you may not get an answer. Thats not what they were there for. Im a silver smith. Interpreting africanAmerican History. I think there was a need for it and africanamericans were represented throughout the foundation all the way up to 79. The focus wasnt on africanAmerican History and, to be honest, before even during 79 when we were first beginning, those africanamericans that were in costume still didnt want to talk about it. They wanted to talk about their craft and, to be very honest, you really wouldnt want them to. We found what we were doing is that if you cant answer some basic questions then your credibility gets shot real quick. And so unless you were hired and trained it wasnt fair to think they could take on that burden and i dont mean burden as in a negative but it can get burdensome. And so i think what the president was really speaking of there was always a presence. There was a knowledge of williamsburg in the 18th century was black, but how to interpret it really hadnt delved into it. And, to be honest, personally i think that it was the right time when we started doing it. It was time people were thinking about social issues. People thinking about women, womens history. And people loosening up. People just like today, folks still aint too loose to talk about slavery. That has to do with how we have learned it and how weve been mistaught about the institution itself and for some reason we think thats a color issue. And we dont understand color. What we were trying to do is to teach people and make it very personable. I know i went a little far. Those early years were very interesting years because there was an effort to move forward for africanamericans knowing that they represented the other half of the population during the 18th century. They employed them as blacksmiths and as carriage drivers and as scholar inmates, and they dressed them in that way. So even though they were crafts people, they were trades people, its interesting. The dichotomy was they were hired because they represented the diversity of williamsburg, especially africanamerican. In their hiring many of them focused their attention on what they did not who they were doing. But the foundation understood very well that it had to have a representation of africanamericans so there were africanamericans who happened to be africanamerican who was a carriage driver or a book binder or africanamerican but they understood they were hiring them to legitimize the con seccept o historical accuracy. When we came onboard we knew we werent being hired to be, per se, a tradesman. We were hired to interpret africanAmerican History. And thats through theater. When the program came it sort of began to focus on, yes, africanAmerican History is important and we want to interpret it. In the 1940s the payne family, they lived in the house above the kitchen. During the day when mr. Payne was going about doing his duties as a custodian of the property, he would be in costume. Now he would be doing what he would do in terms of cleaning the house and the other chores that he had but he did it in costume. There was a full awareness he was being used as a person to represent something. There wasnt the attendant responsibility of being of having information about africanAmerican History so that you might be able to interpret that as a part of the story. And that would come a few years later in 1966 in williamsburg, what became a seminal work and really the bible for interpretation. It was the compilation of a lot of work from the archaeologists and historians on staff and others as they dug through the record, which was rich in terms of the presence of africanamericans, and yet there was still large gaps. Now, you know, the other thing, too, i think we cannot ignore with those early africanamerican Staff Members who were working in the historic area whether they wanted to interpret it or not, visitors would constantly address them that way, and that was part of the irritation when this actually when this program came along because they had been working so hard to be seen as professionals, had been working so hard to have been seen as people who were mastering an 18th century craft or skill and they didnt want their roles diminished by the visitor, frankly, who would say completely inappropriate things to them. And, frankly, that still happens. Yes. So thats sort of the additional layer, i think, to why there was a mix of resistance from black people in some cases and, in fact, from other interpreters throughout the historic area when this came along. I think theres another important social derek i think theres another important social event that also heralds why it became important in 79 and that was in 1977. For the first time america saw the story of a black family when roots came out. So i think these confluences, as dylan said, it was the right time. And there was no better person to do it to get this going. I just thought of three things. One is when rex was speaking of people in the Historic Buildings in costume what 79 did was put people on the street and now the Costume Design Center had to come up with what are they wearing . Right. So now your shirt is different. Youre wearing a linen shirt and now, you know, your shoes have to be different. Everything has kind of changed. Now you have people authentically dressed as black folks on the street. Not just as a cook and that means that the black cook, its easy for me to say black because black, africanamerican, you know, because now the black cook is not dressed the way a black cook would have dressed. Shes dressed the way any cook would have dressed. Now when people see black folk on the street with a hat on, they go into a kitchen and that inappropriate question, who are you . That is the biggest question that i can remember that crafts people didnt like. They would see a carriharacter portrayal on the street and see another black person, who are you . We just saw out there, who are you . The actual printer, wont mention names, the actual master print eaer of the shop who wanto say im the master printer of the shop, but thats not what the visitor was asking. The visitor was asking, who are you . The visitor was also very interested in that person, that individual, and thats where we got a great deal of what i say ire, a great deal of anger from tradesmen who really wanted to focus their attention on the trade. On the technology. On the im a silver smith, a book binder, whatever it was. Foe wanted to focus their attention on that. We came to town saying we want to you ask us about africanAmerican History. As a matter of fact well create these characters that focus their attention on letting you know what life was like for africanamericans during the 18th century. And these characters fully researched, i mean, meticulously researched by the Research Department who sort of put us on the map. We also put the Research Department on the map. Right, right, right . One of the reasons i say we put them on the map is because we began to ask questions about slave objects and about material culture and gilligan to ask questions about africanamericans in the 18th century. Tate opened the door but then there were historian who is had to in some way begin to fill in the blanks of what was going on within the africanamerican community. There were archaeologist who is were seeing remains that were africanamerican and saying lets document it and cover it up. They werent doing that anymore. They were beginning to ask questions and beginning to find new questions to ask about the 18th century that gave us fodder for new information but also gave them, in many instances, a new look into history that was part of what christy said, the social Historical Perspective that was coming out around the 80s and 90s. It allowed us to do programs were very proud of. There may be a question of whats 79 . What happened in 1979 they wanted to have characters on the street but at the same time in 1979 a man named peter pippen came from the africanamerican History Museum in d. C. Under the direction of john moon who had asked, they wanted to do a black Music Program and that was the very First Program that was ever done in the historic area was a black Music Program. And rex was my speech teacher at hampton. The worst student ever. He came to me he came to me on the first day of class and said, um, i work at Colonial Williamsburg. I know how to talk. Can i just not do this class at all . Who in the world is this arrogant young man coming and telling me he doesnt have to do speech 103 . From there to becoming one of my best friends. God only knows. I played the fife for extra credit. Thats right. I have black folks in there going, what is he playing . 18th century stuff . But what happened was rex, eddie allen darren taylor, were hired to walk the streets so this young man who has a shop as a barber, i gave him a call to let him know one of the first characters on the street because thats 40 years and is still here. That says something, you all. He took a long hiatus. He wasnt the first. It was nice to see him with a shop and that was big. He didnt know that but he wasnt here 40 years ago. This was the first time people on the streets and then there was an Evening Program of black music. If you ever see this photograph did you have the long drum the long drum. Its Lamont Carter who has passed. He worked in the boot shop. Had very little rhythm. Very little rhythm. But lamont he was one of the few africanamericans who were interested in helping us interpret africanAmerican History, so god rest his soul. God rest his soul. Cones, eddie allen and theres one more. I wrote them down. Was it deborah . Deborah was later. Preston jones, who is still around. Preston was one of the first. Preston and i would fight for the bell. But you know, that helped i thought ruthie ruth is later. Oh, i have her down. That in the beginning even shows people were willing. We had two craftsmen that were willing to help. We dont want it to sound like people didnt want. We hadnt gone through the training, the training of the interpreters of how to because they had never really had that kind of focus. But now they were getting the focus. White interpreters as well as black interpreters because they were meeting the people on the street. Also during this time is when children thats later. Thats a little bit later, okay. Ill save that. Rex, when they came to talk to you, who came to talk to you at hampton about this . I think thats an interesting story. Harvey cradle, i believe denny otoole was in the group. They came to Hampton University and said they wanted some of our actors. They came and said, well, i actually was teaching an acting class at that point and the chairman of the department called me into his office and said theres somebody in the office i would like you to listen to. And harvey said, in essence, he wanted some of our actors to audition, to play the parts of slaves at Colonial Williamsburg. Now you dont go to a predominantly black college and make a Statement Like that unless you are three beers short of a six pack or your cause is just. And so we sat him down, and he said, we want to begin to talk about the other half of the population in williamsburg during the 18th century. Now rex was a year old when we left and i came to williamsburg to live. From the time i was a year old until i graduated from high school i never knew that half the population in williamsburg was black. I knew williamsburg as a place my next door neighbor was the head chef at the old motor house. I knew that one of my other next door neighbors was the housekeeper at the lodge. I had no idea there was this kind of history. So fool that i was, i said if youre going to do something positive for black folk in williamsburg, ill audition for you. And so it was me, darren taylor, monte combs who were the first three africanamerican interpreters. Not eddie, not that year. And then harvey cradle, who had begun the program, creating a character what was the name of this character . Was always in the jail in the pillory. And he always the crowd loved him because it was a way of teaching history that used theater as a way of introducing and connecting audiences to characters that were 18th century characters. Well, his character was a poor never do well who was always in jail, irresponsible. But the crowd loved him and so the next year in 73 no, in 78. And in 79 they thought enough of what he was doing and the sort of new burgeoning Living History Program that they asked him to hire six other people to help him create in williamsburg. Here is this guy saying at Hampton University we want he didnt say we would try to begin a new program. He didnt say folks would be upset, he said we would like to you come and work with Colonial Williamsburg and begin this program. That first year was pretty rough. Because harvey had this idea of us being in character and never breaking character but staying in character throughout. After about one week i said this is not going to work, so i called darren, i called monte, and we went to harveys office. I said this is not going to work. People are getting confused. They dont know who we are, what were doing. They think we are from eastern state and have come here to do something that is totally irresponsible. You have to break character. He said, no, no, no, no. We cant do that. Thats not my vision. I stayed, you dont understand, harvey, this is a Part Time Job for me. Im going back to Hampton University when this is over. We either try it this way or i dont need this job that bad. And so we then create add program where we broke character. I would introduce the character, ladies and gentlemen, who i was. I would do the character and then i would turn around again and break character. Now i could talk about 18th century history. I could talk about what we learned in order to get the programs together. So it was that burgeoning Living History Program that had the extra burden of interpreting a controversial history. So we were using a controversial presentation technique to interpret one of the most controversial subjects that we could in an 18th century environment and that was slavery. That gets me to an interesting thing. I remember my grandmother telling me, because she would bring me to the lodge, and i remember her telling me about how black folks in grove felt about williamsburg. She would talk to me about how, you know, long before williamsburg was here black folks was here. And how the property was bought up and they were gone to different places and the like. And even when i first met you at st. Johns. Even when i met you at st. Johns, at that point in time Colonial Williamsburg in our neighborhood is a place white folks go. So when i think about you all and i see all of the and think back to that early time, i dont think i can explain how the community may have thought i read an article just yesterday about from you, rex, where you were talking about how your father felt about williamsburg. My father said we passed you live in williamsburg. You live in east, north, south, or west and the historic area is in the middle so you have to pass the historic area to go anywhere, from one end of the town to the other. You have to pass Colonial Williamsburg. We passed one day and i said, daddy, there were a whole bunch of people at the capitol, and i remember saying, daddy, why is it we never go to see that place . And he said because that place points to slavery and thats not something we need to know about. Well, if daddy says it, thats the end of it. I didnt think about it anymore until that day harvey came to Hampton University. So mine works. So i came on the scene the summer of 1982, and i also grew up in williamsburg, and a lot of the people were talking about, they grew up these people who worked in the historic area went to our church or they lived in our neighborhoods and whatever so we knew these people. And, for me my dad was the sioux chef and my father was the manager of then the cascades. I came to williamsburg, unlike them, a lot. Walking down the street, me and my friends would ride our bikes up and down the historic area, joke on the tourists. And all that kind of thing. And so the summer prior to my senior when i was a junior in high school i was riding my bike and i saw my drama teacher from high school, and im proud to say we had the state champion Drama Department at my high school. And one of my classmates is right there. So im riding my bike and i saw carew on the street portraying ann wager. And i stopped and i was just mesmerized by what she was doing. And i thought, ooh, i want to do that. You know . And so back in class i said, hey, so how can i kind of get in on that . And she said, well, first of all, youre too young. The people theyre working with are college age or older or whatever. Ive always been a little brassier than your average bear. And so i got my i got i dont remember who on behalf my parents called somebody to find out when the audition was going to be. For africanamerican program, Living History Program. I went to the audition at 17. They didnt know i was 17. You lied on the application . I most certainly did not. We didnt have to bring we had to bring our theater resume. So i had my head shot and i had all my show stuff listed. You were good to go. So i did it and they hired me and it was really great. While my friends were working at mcdonalds that summer for minimum wage, i thought it was great because i was making a whole lot more money comparatively, it wasnt really a lot when you think back on it but it was 2 more than anybody else in high school which was really great and i was acting and getting able to perform. And they were patient. They got me the historian to work with and rex and dylan and the crew that was before really came in and really mentored me and the work. For me it was just an acting job. I didnt think about the power of what i would be doing. And i always liked history as a kid. And i always understood africanAmerican History because my parents were adamant about it when i was growing up. Whenever i had that special report in english class or history class or whatever it was, they would tell me, why dont you write about this person . Why dont you write about this person and share with your classmates . And so thats what i did. So i didnt have the same anxiety about talking about enslaved people. However, it didnt take long on the street for me to learn, and weve talked about this in the past, it was within the first week and i was portraying someone my age, her name was rebecca and she belonged to the blair family at the apothacary. He was sick and dying and the storyline was and the storyline im sorry. The storyline was that if he dies whats going to happen to rebecca . Is she going to get sold off to pay his debts . Is she going to go off to live with ann blair . That was sort of the thing. It was a tear jerker and i milked it for all it was worth. And then i went out and sat on the barrel out in front waiting for sort of the next cycle of visitors to go through. A visitor, a man, walked up to me and asked me how does it feel to play a nigger. Yeah, he did. And i was so taken aback by it, but also brassie, right. And so i said how does it play to feel one, i jumped up and i went straight to the James Anderson house, to the break room, and i said, mr. Ellis, mr. Ellis, you know, this is what just happened. I dont know if i can do this. Is that what theyre going to be doing to me . And his words of advice have stuck with me in the 37 years since i first started museum work. Changed my life and my career and for that i will always be grateful and he said to me, i understand. Weve all been there. And now you have to ask yourself the question, whether or not youre Strong Enough to tell your ancestors stories when nobody else wants to, or, if you arent ready to do that, its okay. You can go. You sit here and you think about that and i sat in that room as interpreters kind of came in and out during their break and i sat there and i was like, im doing this. And i went back out and i came back every summer. All the plans of being an attorney went out of the window. An acting attorney but, you know. My parents wouldnt let me major in theater. Let me say this and i will shut up. No, thats how we roll. During the summer, the marketing speak up for us a little bit. During the summer can you hear me now . During the summer the Marketing Department would decide how they were going to market Colonial Williamsburg this year. They decided that they would go to a department store. I think it was higbys. Was it higbys . Yeah. They would go to a department store, cleveland. And they would put Colonial Williamsburg characters, tradesmen, dancers, and this year they would include africanamericans in their group. And every floor they had someone on that floor. And they had a particular floor in the christmas area of higbys where they wanted the africanamerican interpreters to be. And i remember that night they had a large parade that was inside the store and all of the Colonial Williamsburg characters, whether they were musicians or whoever they were, they would walk down this long aisle. There were black chairs on either side of the aisle and stockholders and other vips were seated in those chairs. And we were to all parade down. And then when we got to the middle of the store, one group started from one end, another group started from the other end. The local 90s band was there. But Colonial Williamsburg, they were the stars. We came in and we came to the middle of the room and then we would go up the escalators all the way up to the top floor which is where Colonial Williamsburg was, and they would fill in the floor with the other luminaries. There i am with bill white over in the cosmetics area. I dont know if you remember mary weisman, mary weisman was a part of that group as well. So im over there with bill white and mary weisman. Bill white was the drum major and he had coifed i had a banner here and a big baton and had his tricornered hat on and poof and poof and boom. He was looking good, right . And right beside him is mary weisman. The costume shop made her this beautiful gown that was flowing all around, and she had put her hair up and make yum on and she was just looking important. And then i looked over in the mirror at myself and i looked pretty good for a slave. And i said to bill, bill, do you mind if i sit this one out . And he said, okay, but could you come by my hotel room afterward and tell me why . I said, all right. I went to his room after they had done all of this parading. I said when you put on 18th century clothing, it makes you feel important, it inspires you. It makes you think that the 18th century was what it means to be an american. When i wear the clothes i wear, i feel like a slave. And if im responsible and want to get into my character, the more i get into my character, the worse i feel as so what shes talking about is what happens to every africanamerican interpreter mo puts on a costume every day and goes out into that street to interpret something that few people interpret and to find your peace in that is what she did. Many fail to do it. But she found her peace in that but it was that day bill white understood what it meant being an africanamerican, putting on a slave costume and what that did to your psyche. I want to say this. What we did, we own that. We own that. And what we are today is still own that. And we can see. We can walk the streets and see an africanamerican, a black interpreter doing a black character and have no respect for them because they aint got that. We see that. And i aint talking about nobody. But we know what that takes. And we know when you can come out of yourself for those ancestors, you are doing your job. If you are doing it for wednesdays payday, we see that. We know that. We feel that. And its hard to try to give advice to somebody who dont know that, because you got to feel it. And until you are called a nigger by somebody that means, that really means it, and you can take that and know how to come back to it, and in respect of your ancestors, then you can make it. But you got to go through it, you know what i mean. And excuse me, but that 79. And 84 and 85 and 86. Thats what you had to have. People came. People went. People hung around. But you could tell it. There was a time where we would go rex and i been to some shady places. I remember going to new jersey one time because they wanted to do something. We ended up in a hotel. I said rex they got more towels in here than sheets. We slept in our clothes. Yeah, we slept in our clothes that night. We was wondering how come we were in room 1899. The man looked at one room. We was there for a rotary club or something. I got off track. But the objective was, we knew that there werent people who would come to Colonial Williamsburg on their own. We had to do some sort of Outreach Program that allows us to go into the community so that they might see us and hope any redefine what they thought Colonial Williamsburg represented. It was to spread that word, to get people to understand theres a lot of strength in 18th century history and theres a lot of strength in 18th century africanAmerican History. If you will indulge me, i have to name those people in their honor who was in that struggle. I cant find my glasses now. But anyway, i had already mentioned the First Program and we spoke of the first characters. And then there were other programming on that time then there was a Storytelling Program. We started doing a Storytelling Program at the music teachers room what is that called now. Mary stiff house i right behind there. We did that two or three years. There would be a difficult Music Program every year. The juvenile performer program because there were children used in it, greg johnson and kay smith. And so we had to start a juvenile Performers Program because we couldnt have children in programming and they werent in the Colonial Williamsburg program. Since i worked in the fife and drum and understood the ranking and stuff, developed a juvenile performer program where we would have children that would join the program and they had to know the basic history. Then you became a juvenile performer. You had to pass a test basic questions, how many slaves so and so have. What does so and so mean . That sort of thing. And rex made a request at his church to if there were any children that were, you know interested. And we ended up with quite a few shay davis. Alfred mckeen, hope smith, quanda griffin, joe griffin, kay smith, greg johnson. And later on richard josey. Dan banks donald eps and lisa read. Keisha oliver. Shand ray montgomery. Exactly. There is no well it could be debatable. But for me theres no treater program that we did than that. You can go right down the list of every young person that i mentioned. They they mean something. They got what it is we were trying to give them, because they still got it. We got doctors and interpreters and you name it thats what they do. Thats whats up. You know, we gave our children what it is they needed. But they had this background in what we did. And thats important. Then there was a program called the run away. And thats for Outreach Programs. We had Outreach Programs that went into the schools where wed go into the schools and do some programming and do some scenes. And here at the hennige we did a lot of programs from that stage. From ear to ear is probably the best Musical Program that weve ever done. Me, christy, rex and Robert Watson and sylvia. Got to mention just a few more folks. People that helped in our programming. Bridgette jackson. She is lewis i dont know where she is now. Lavern johnson. Marilyn taylor, sandra johnson, Robert Watson, celia tab, sylvia taft. Felix simmons. Rose mcphee. Christy emily james, jones. I wish i could know where lamatras. She could play the fiddle. She went into the music teachers room and heard beethoven and started playing. She said i cant read music. We just looked at her. She was amazing. I wonder where she is. Deborah jones. Ruth carter, oscar winner ruth carter. The sister that just won the oscar for costume design for black panther. She worked here. Thats right. Thats right. Pass the word. We cranking them out of here, chris moore with tony freeman. I cant think of joyces last name was. Greg james. Kathleen getwood. Janice kennedy. Later on there is people you dont know wiley brand. Ishmael conway. [ inaudible ] yes, sir. Hey, my brother. Ill mention him again. Ishmael conway. Linda powell Colin Powells daughter. Thats right she was we do the whole thing. Shiel la bush. Stan beatle. Jeremy free. The late stand beatle too. Kristinive lee. Kim myoer. Kim sellers. Greg payne. Lisa reed. Mick nichols. Bonnie bones. Linda row, kevin kelly. Shoma zwelley. Eugene browns and the guides in the historic home Historic Buildings we couldnt do a lot without them. And then we have dendenny otoo. Charlie brown gave the at t grant. Longterm weather a big supporter Sharon Randall jimmy kurtis pamela mendoza. And mary thank you, mary. Michelle. Diane kerry. And dave la forest. I just wanted to put their names out there because any accomplishment of the beginning and say the first ten years without those folks and others, because i aint said linda rowe. You did. I did say linda row. Betty. You didnt say pat gibbs. Pat gibbs. But the main thing ive been trying to think of her name all day. Interestingly it came then pat gibbs. Yes pat gibbs. A shoutout to carrie carson, because carrie was the one who took social history and this sort of new look in history from the bottom up. Car ree was t carrie was the one who took that seriously. She was the one who gave us the privilege of meeting with john hemp bill and harry and harold gill. And kevin kelly. Kevin kelly. And lieu powers. And just a bunch of historians who gave of themselves and in so many ways to help make sure that we were legitimate in the story we are telling. I cant say that too much. You had to know you have to know your history. And it cannot be a mystery. If others are going to not only learn from you but see you as a legitimate teacher. What what donald said earlier about its very important that you know your history, in many ways its your only defense when youre out there on the street by yourself and someone comes and saying something asinine to you. Its your history that will allow you you to move yourself above the perception that they have tacked on to you simply by looking at you. So history is very important. And kari understood that all of the other historians understood that and they were with us as we created characters to make sure what we did and said were legitimate so that those people who said theyre just playing history and there were people in the foundation who were employees saying they were just playing at doing this. Playing at doing that. But we did more research than most in terms of making sure that we were ready to hit that street not only because we wanted to be authentic but because it was our armor against so many who did not wish us well. I think ill add to that and then coming to work and working with rex and dylan and others at such a young age, the value of the historical record was i mean drilled into us. We could not be lazy and repeat what you heard from somebody else. This man used to say, whats your citation documentation for what you just said . And youd better be tight and be able to go back to that book and show him exactly where and why you made that creative and or intellectual decision of how you were doing your character. I mean, it was it wasnt two weeks of training and you were done. It was nonstop. And that and it was an expectation that you continued to keep it going. Now, i know that some of the people for those of you who may not know some of the names that got rattled off, these were allies and people in the program. Kari carson specifically was the Vice President for research. Charles long weather has been the president of the foundation for years. So thats who some of those other people were from the front line to the other historical interpreters who took the ride with us. Because so fast forwarding a little bit. So i came back to the foundation after working in baltimore at another museum to finish some academic work. And i came back to williamsburg in 1989. And at that time there was a lot of transition. The africanamerican programs was no longer just a subset. It had become its own department. There was an experiment at the Benjamin Powell house. And the women that i worked with there it was an extraordinary experiment. Because we were taking this living history a little bit further. We were going to live the day in the life at a property. So we had to we did stay in character all day. And we had to learn the particular skills of your character. So i spent the training the training took us six months and he was like Program Manager and had come out of the Research Department. And barney had us, me and rose and kristen and john lowe who also passed on. So we had to learn everything from needlepoint to actually the going into the cooking program. And we had to learn a certain level of we had to learn all this stuff. Well, fast forward. First couple of weeks we got a problem. Because there is two black women and then this white man and white man supposed to be owners in the house. We had to set the stage for what we were doing, the historical interpreters would give the orientation to the visitors in the lumberhouse and then take them through while we were going about our lives and the visitors could ask us questions and whatever. And so we had made a strategic decision that my character kate was she was a bit surly. And she was she was more very introverted. So when people asked her questions, her response was often really curt and short and extraordinarily piercing, right . Because inevitably, you know, look, we live in america. We have a really difficult time of dealing with racism and white supremacy. And what slavery did. So we try to soften it. Its part of our bargaining. Inevitably was going to ask the question and they did every day, well, are they good to you . Slavery isnt that bad, is it . I mean look how youre dressed at least you have your children with you. And you know, it would be that kind of thing, which was, you know, no matter how well intentioned its still annoying. And fortunately i was playing a character where i could let that be known. And so but the problem was that we were doing the work of the household. So we sat down with barney and i said, man, listen, im tired of hauling wood every day. Rose and i are out here hauling buckets of water. Were working in the garden. We are working like slaves. We want to be clear, we portray them so we need to work something out with the Landscape Department or something. So sure enough, they did. They made sure we had wood already stacked. They didnt just drop it off in the back of the house. They made sure that the gardens were tended to so at least when we went out there and gathered stuff up from the garden we didnt have to go through all this extra. I mean it was crazy what we were trying to do. But it was profound at the same time. But we had this area of cushion and there were people, again, these historic interpreters who agreed to be part of this program with us to take people on that journey. And so this was by that point we are ten years in, right, the first decade has been done and were looking at how we can be better. And there is one persons name that i think we need to also highlight here who i wish was on the stage with us. And thats robert c. Watson. Robert c. Watson [ applause ] was the director. He came in as assistant director to rex and then he became director of africanamerican presentations. What he gave us was our africanness in the africanamerican. He had a wealth of understanding about west African People and language and culture and helped us really dissect that culture. That historical record where despite all of their people like marley brown in the archaeologiy department as good as they were as at understanding 1ing century life. There were things they had no intellectual or academic Reference Point for. And robert provided that groundwork. And that was for me also another extremely important game changer. In terms of the evolution of the program over time. And yeah, so by that time when we get into the early 90s, weve got robust programming going on all day every day all over the historic area. And were trying to and we were there is something else. And i because i am going to so one of the things that we as we were doing this, and we were gaining more allies out in the field with the other interpreters, the question always came there were two questions that seemed to keep coming up, whose history is it and who has a right to teach it . And we were going through sort of the cultural discussions and things like that. And could we should we even consider bringing white interpreters into africanamerican interpretation . Where that would be their intellectual and work focus . Should we, could we . And so when i became the director in 94 of the program i made the decision that we would try it. We would do it. And do i regret that . No. But what it did is that it created i believe i believe it really did create a false confidence that, oh, well clearly now, you know, everybody can do it. We are training everybody. We may not need the department anymore. Well just break it down in different ways. And well and it was an extraordinarily painful thing for me to figure this out and how to make it work, because i understood the department wasnt just the intellectual focus that we had. But it was that thing that rex and all everyone has talked about here. It was about a certain connectedness. We lifted each other up when those difficult moments came. And so my concern was, where is the support going to be for the interpreters if this is split up . Can they, are they Strong Enough, given the now the numbers of people that we have across the foundation in varying roles . I had hoped that they would be Strong Enough to sustain each other during that period of transition. And it was a crazy period. We reorganized the historic area three times in three years. And it was it was mind numbing, absolutely mindnumbing trying to keep this kind of like cocoon while all of the other transitions were going on. And at the end of the day i think that the program what ended up happening is that nobody had their eye on it the same way and didnt have the same resources of being at the directors table. And therein i thought was the big difference. It just became one of the programs that im responsible for versus someone advocating everyday for those resources. And, you know, again, that was a point for me of real struggle during that time. On the Positive Side of it, is that it did broaden the idea that all of this is our story of williamsburg. You cannot understand early america. You cannot understand how we could evolve as a nation allegedly built on the ideals of freedom and liberty, and all of those wonderful words that we say in the midst of slavery. And and so we were able to really delve into the political and social and emotional intricacy of that. And so thats when, you know, i we started pushing this idea a lot harder. Because we now had white actors that were working with us. We now had folks doing the other half tour. We had more influence in the in what was happening on the tours themselves through the historic area. So that every house the idea was that every building that you went into you heard this story from the interpreters. And that was quite and that was when Steve Elliott was Vice President of the foundation, and bob wilburn who was a big advocate of this. Bob was a huge advocate of this, and the first big test for us really was when we did the estate slave auction event in 94. And our team, the africanamerican Interpretive Team agreed together that we would do it. But everybody knew that they could not take that stage. And you know, talk to dylan about it and i said dylan i need you there. Dylan came and portrayed somebody for us in the crowd as the freeman. That next decade, again, was testing what we had done to see, you know, could we make this work on a larger scale the way we said we wanted every visitor to know who walked through Colonial Williamsburg that 52 of the population was black. Every one had to know that basic fact and what it meant, right . There is i dont think that we talked about the actual structure of the department and how we got to where christy is speaking of. Rex can speak to it better than i. Because i was supervisor of the interpreters and doing the programs. And so in the beginning when we had africanamerican programs which was an entity in itself, the people that interpreted were the people that did Evening Programs. And those who were in what was called ccp, company of colonial performers. Right. But africanamerican programs was part of that. So anybody in costume that did Evening Program was game to do any of our programs. As christy mentioned about the characters at the Benjamin Powell house they werent in the same department but we saw each other did programs together. Went to green leaf cafe afterwards to get a feta burger. Thats what i got. We talked to each other and had a group of people that were on the same mission and we could share those what happened during the day kind of events. Later on and maybe well share a little bit more when we talk to the employees about some of the things that they that need to be said. But this isnt the right forum to say it, because there are just certain things that you keep in your house. But anyway, when they got to christy, when christy is speaking of, no better word to use than to water down the mission, to water down the interpretation by taking you and putting you in different areas. That was nothing new. It had been tried before. But wasnt successful. What im trying to say is that we had become a group of interpreted that knew the value and the strength of that togetherness in mission and those who interpreted africanAmerican History. The times were changing. Administrations were changing. Vice president s were changing. And things were basically changing. Cant go back to where we were but didnt want to take a step back. And things were a little bit different. There is one thing i wanted to stay about this sale. When it started and the protests started and all that happened, i kind of saw the ring leader. I set off to the side. The sale happened. I said, you know they do this every year. He said, what . I said they do this every year. He said, really . I said yes, just watch. I knew what was happening. I said theyre going to sell some land now. Watch them. And they did whatever. I said, the only difference is the department wanted them to see a face. They wanted to see situations. They wanted to see a mother pregnant sold, they wanted to see a family being split up sold. Normally they just sell sally and you never see sally. So he said they do this every year . I was kind of casual, every year. I said they just wanted you to see somebody. They wanted to put some heart to this. Then christy came out and Robert Watson came out. I said now theyre going to sell a man with his tools, listen. He listened. After all of that, he said if i had known the history, maybe i wouldnt be here. I go, oh, okay. So whoever was in charge of explaining what they were going to see, weeks beforehand, i didnt do a good job. Im sorry, i did. No, no, no. Go back and explain to them what youre talking about. You werent just talking to a visitor. You were talking to protesters. There are a lot who may not know about this estate sale. Im sorry. Christy can probably explain it better than me. The reaction to the estate sale was . Every year theres an estate sale. Every year Colonial Williamsburg did a program on columbus day weekend called the kings ascension weekend. Part of that programming had always been one of these auctions on the steps of one of the taverns. And so we were still africanamerican programs then. We had a conversation about isnt it about time. So that originated in africanamerican interpretations. And we took that to barney and we said, this is what we want to do. And he was like, oh my god, are you sure . Yep, thats what we want to do. And so i went out and started talking to local naacp. I talked to folks in the churches st. John, first baptist, little zion. Had the interpreters do the same. So we were out, we thought, ahead of it by getting to our community. What blew it up was when the Richmond Times dispatch, somebody who didnt know who didnt bother to call put in like this little snippy kind of editorial. And before you know it, i had friends calling me from new york saying, hey, i heard youre getting ready to sell black people to tourists in williamsburg. Man, are you kidding me . So we did have to heavily, heavily manage the story, because the spin was in every different direction you can imagine by the time we got there. Yeah, it was crazy. It was crazy. Yeah. I was in arizona at Luke Air Force base in my barracks room watching yall on cnn. I picked up the phone and cal d bernetta and rose mcafee at the time. I didnt want to be in the military. When i saw that clip, i wanted to come home because i wanted to be home with my family and i think the because i know time is running out. So theres one thing thats been said and weve kind of talked about this a little bit. And i think its before we open up for q a, i would love to hear somebody unpack for me or explain to the people the togetherness. Christy you explained like a situation that you had. You know, and you had a support system. I dont and coming and having been in minnesota and being in a whole different environment and whole different situation, i can understand how important that support network was amongst you all and many of the folks some folks seeing it here in the audience. How did yall get that . I would say a certain rooting in faith. We had a similar faith tradition. So we we were in points of crisis it was no or even points of joy, there was no hesitation about holding each others hands and saying a prayer before a program. Actually we used to do that practically every program. The challenge came for us later when we had Staff Members who came in who had different faith traditions, particularly if they were muslim or we had one person that came in later who was a buddhist. And you dont want to create an environment where they dont feel welcome. Right. But we still have to kind of embrace them in that moment. And so that i will say that sort of initial routing in faith and just lord, watch over us kind of thing. And that required not only the lord watching over you but you had to watch for each other. And so that was i know for me one of the things and then its just shared experience. Listen, when whether it was 79 or 89 or 99 there werent a lot of people doing the work we were doing. Bottom line. It wasnt like you could as a matter of fact despite wherever people landed on us choosing to have done that auction, what it did change is that other institutions, the phone calls and letters i got from monticello, mt. Vernon, mt. Pillier. They said my god if you can do that we can at least talk about the black presence at our sites. So it changed the game in that way. But again, there werent that many black people doing costume work, let alone in museum work beyond the ethnic specific institutions. And we were in a funny place with some of them, right . Our colleagues and ethnic specific institutions were like why are you doing that . You need to work in your own institutions where you are really going to be loved well thats another thing. Its this that, to me, is what created it. I mean, thats the space. We had shared experience. We had a respect for the work. We had a shared faith tradition. And we just were passionate about what we had to do. It wasnt what we chose to do. It was what we had to do. And so a different and people have come in and out of this journey. Because it is it is wearing work. It is wearing work. Rex, i want to say this and then please say something. When christy was speaking of religion, i remember and my problem is yall i name names. Mohammed was muslim, and he came to me for the williamsburg in black and white program. He said i want to do a chant before this program. I said what kind of chant . He said im going to do a muslim chant. I said sing it for me. No, i aint making fun. But its not like oh, me. It was true. And i said, what are you saying . I said, write it down. He wrote it down. He wasnt saying out of the way. He started the program with it. People in the audience didnt know what he was saying unless you were muslim. But its the fact that he wanted to do something for his faith. Now we had jehovah witness and we had white folks. And cathy. And could be atheist. You know what . They stood in the circle when we played. They held hands with everybody else when we prayed. It aint their prayer but it had to do with the togetherness and purpose. And thats what we had, you know and its a respect of your religion regardless. It was what we were doing that was important. Right. I came back in 2001 to be Vice President of the historic area. And one of the first things that i remember doing publicly was a gathering of Fire Department and police and everyone after 9 11, because there were people here who were visitors who didnt know how to sort of take what was happening. Our world changed. Our entire world changed during 9 11. And i remember colin campbell, the president then, said rex, i want you to lead the ceremony on the steps of the capitol that was the courthouse was the place that we all did it. And we invited visitors and everybody else came. I didnt know what to say. And i ended up saying at the beginning, we might have come to this country on different ships, but we are in the same boat now. That was what i think would answer your question. Whether we were muslim, buddhist, catholic, whatever we were, when we donned that costume, there was a shared camaraderie that didnt supercede faith and religion, but allowed us to embrace all of the religions, even those who were questioning whether religion was possible, because we were all in the same boat, we were all dealing with the same things. We were all trying to make sense and trying to create dignity and trying to create integrity and trying to educate the public that came. All of us were trying to do it in our individual ways, but we were all trying to do the same thing. So we were all in the same boat, richard. Uhhuh. You know, i was thinking of i was thinking of those people that i mentioned and how much more expansive that is, because there were many people in the Historic Buildings, the interpreters, the guides, who were just as supportive. They didnt know how to say anything other than good job or to nod. So although these are a group of black folks, there were a lot of white folks behind us. I did im going to tell you this real fast. I did a program. I told some stories at the National Voting right museum outside of selma. And they had a group there, the freedom singers. Heard them sing their songs. Afterwards we were at a picnic table and i said, tell me something i wouldnt know unless i was a freedom singer. They said, we raise money to get people out of jail who were being jailed for civil Rights Violations and stuff. But whenever we did our music, we couldnt leave because theyd see us. We were the only black people there and thered always be the klan out on the road. He said what wed do is wed get in some jewish peoples trunk and go to separate houses because they didnt see black people. Theyd just see cars going by. About 7 00 or 8 00 in the morning wed meet up together and get out of town. I said really . Yeah, man, you wouldnt know how people helped us during that time. White people helped us. And ive always thought about that. Because although as the president said africanAmerican History but its American History. And there are some people that embrace that, because they may have a certain history thats not being told. Women, you know, children, oh thats why i love the juvenile performer program because we put up children and even in hiring people in the beginning, one of the variety cant have all the and its hard to get men, but we had to have a variety. So wont mention no names of this. We had to have 50yearolds and 60yearolds. Gray hairs. We had one or two. Which we are now. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, so it gos good t have a range of people. But there is a lot of support. There was a lot of support in the churches. Once they figured out what was going on, you know and it takes a while. But once they say, yeah were doing something positive. We like that too. Then it went going around to the employees, even the people in the hotels. And big props i have to go back to fife and drum. Big props to the brother at king arms taverns. The drum major would go down the street. Id always salute them because the brother would be out there. He would be serving. Look at that, my man right there, thats my man. And big props to him. And miss epps. Anybody know her . She was 100 years old whenever she heard the fife and drum, she would sit there and always wave and i would salute her every time. Thats the kind of encouragement that africanamerican programs needed. And if we dont get it from the left we get it from each other. Thats what was important. Because we understood, we understood what the day was like and what you may have gone through. So i think we i think we run out of time. We run out of time. But we want to get a couple of questions. And why would we get the mike, for anybody who helped us in the programs or your name hadnt been called, please stand so we can recognize who you are. Thank you. [ applause ] all right. Their feet hurting. Thats all right. I think your point at the end about how did we do this is relative, because in 79 i came in in 79. Rex brought some people and dylan brought some people who had some heart, too. Because it wasnt easy. No. And we had to rely on each other. Because i remember as a muslim i wanted we did some research and found there were muslims in that 52 . There were some people who never gave up the tradition. And i played that character very often. But i also played reverend. So we had to deal with those traditions. I want to share two things that happened. One was it was the night the night tours. And virginia has this unique rain that comes at night, you know, its not really raining but its nasty. And i had to be out there at night. And people would walk up to me and here i would kind of leap out at them. And sometimes id just get up from making preyers or whatever out there. And i got cold. Only had a white shirt. I got cold. I never forget. Harvey cradle came up to me and i said i need a jacket im losing my voice, im an actor. And he brought me back an old blanket. And he said, if you were a slave, this is all you would have gotten. And that was powerful. And that did something that christy said and i dont want you to miss it, the word she used, this experience taught me never to use the word slave again. My people were not slaves. They were enslaved. Theres a difference. Ill let you all think about that. Second point was i went to glory island and carried my costume. And i taught at the school at gory island. And as i left in tears, the students and the teachers said, the african knows of michael jordan, but he doesnt know you. Nobody let us tell our story over the 400 years to our people at gory, at st. Louis. And you got to think about that. Final point. There are probably only 200 actual tapes of people who were enslaved now in the national archives. There is not many. Am i right, rex . There are not many. So we did the best that we could. And im dr. Ishmael conway. And this is my wife ayanna conway. And we spent a career interpreting. Im very proud and honored to be here. [ applause ] first of all, id like to say that this has been a real eye opening experience for me. My wife and i moved here to williamsburg because of your stories. We didnt have a clue, when i grew up all over the United States and one of the alltime strangest places i lived in my life was mississippi. And i was 9 years old. I didnt understand it. Now i get a sense of what the hell was going on, because i was too young to get it. You are to be commended and congratulated for putting it out there in terms of the risk and the emotional risk that you have put on that stage that you went into battle on those streets in williamsburg every day. I consider an incredible honor to meet you. Thank you. [ applause ] thank you. I have a question. That id like to ask. Can you stand up, please. Were there any free slaves that were merchants during the 1700s . Any free blacks. You mean free black people . That were merchants in williamsburg. In williamsburg or merchants that were black that were free slaves . Free men freedman. What he means, yeah. Yall get it. Dont be upset. We got it. I i dont know of any. I know of somebody that was in yorktown in the 18th sempcentur. I cant think of the brothers name. But i dont know of any in williamsburg that would have i dont know what theyd be selling. Mr. Ashby comes to mind from the, one of the merchants. There were blacks that had garden plots and sold vegetables and things like that on the weekends. Market square. In market square. Not shop owners. Im pretty sure they were few and far between. Ive forgotten what i did know about the york county records. John rollinson. Thats the one that comes to mine. So a few. A few to answer your question. Martha can answer that. Can you talk about Carters Grove. I think were missing a part of that picture if we dont talk a little bit about how Carters Grove meshed into the programs. Mmhm. No doubt. No doubt. Carters grove was the rural story. The Colonial Williamsburgs urban story. What was the year . 1988. 1988. We had alex haley come and help us to open the slave quarter at Carters Grove. For the first time we were able to tell that rural story. It was a huge debate that you know about, martha, that had us interpret and build slave quarters right at the entrance to the estate. They actually changed the direction so that when you came to Carters Grove, before you saw the Carters Grove mansion, you had to pass through the slave quarter in order to see it. What an interesting adventure that was. Ill never forget Arthur Johnson at that time art was huge. And art stood at the beginning of the or yenation. People would go into the Orientation Center there where there was a gift shop and restrooms and a film that you were given. And then you come through the pa back of the center and that would lead you across a bridge and into Carters Grove proper. And they had a debate, the archaeologist and bill kelso had an argument about whether it was a tanning pit or whether it was slave housing that was at the beginning. Bill kelso won and they put slave housing right there at the end of the path and you had to pass through that before you went to Carters Grove. But there were people who would go across the bridge and like they didnt see the slave quarter. This were three buildings there and all they would see is the mansion. They would make a beeline toward the mansion. Arthur was so big, until he could stand and put his hand on one end of the gate and on the other end of the gate to stop people just as because as you came off the gate, you could see the slave quarters. So art did that and he stood there, because he knew it was a group of people who were going to be pulsing out of the film and coming across the bridge. And they came across the bridge. Art said, i know youre trying to get to the mansion. Let me just ask you one question. Anybody here related to the duponts . Raise your hand nobody raised their hand. Anybody related to the rockefellers . Nobody raised their hands. He said and he pointed to the slave quarter, and he said, welcome home. [ applause ] i should have gave him a raise after that one. And then you had the other employees whod say you dont want to stop here . I take you through here. Theres a long line up there. Theyre crazy over there. I understand this may be the last question. First of all, i echo the gentleman back here. I was educated in virginia and i went to high school and i took virginia history. But until i came to williamsburg and got to experience the interpreters hold on for a minute. She has a mike. It must not be on. Shes got to put it to her mouth. Put it up here. Okay. Ive never had this problem before. [ laughter ] those of you who know me, i never had this problem. I want to echo the gentleman behind me in his congratulations to you. My question to you is, where will my great grandchild go to hear the story that you told today . Because it is a compelling story. It is ripe in this country right now as we experience the great divide. We have to know, we have to know the pain and the struggle that it took for you to portray what was really happening in this place. It is American History. It is very, very important, because those of us who were educated here, we did not get it. Im not young. Well, okay, id like to be young, but i went to high school and Junior High School here in the 60s. I graduated in 73 in hampton. I attended Hampton University. I didnt know dr. Ellis, but i wanted to know where will we go to hear your stories that were told today . Theyre recording it right back there. So the one thing i will say is that Colonial Williamsburg has always done an extraordinary job with archiving. One of the things that we promised each other in our sort of pretalk was to be as emotionally honest about this as we could, even as we saved some names to protect the innocent and not so. But, you know, it is being digitized. It is an archive. I think it will be shared first with those employees who wanted to see it first. After that, i dont know. Thats the one thing i will say, is that they have from photographic records to the videographies and things that were taken over the years, theres an incredible programmatic archive here. I only hope they get it digitized, uploaded so people can get to it easily. Thats the key. At the beginning beth mentioned there were two other programs they were going to be having, one in june. July and october. And one in october. So please come back for those programs. But also interpretively, i dont know if Valerie Williams is here tonight, but she does a lot of programs in the auditorium. I mention her because she is an example of the kinds of connections that historical interpreters, especially africanamerican interpreters can make with audiences who want to talk about race and want to talk about issues that are very difficult, but are still but find the way and find the courage to do it here. And Valerie Williams is somebody who can Valerie Holmes. Thats her. Thats her. Thats her. Shes brilliant. She at the end of her program has more people outside waiting in lines to talk with her about not 18th century issues, but about current issues. I hope that there are more characters created in the africanamerican Program Staff here that allow audiences to connect, to make connections that are not just 18th century connections but that are human to human connections. I know richard did that, i know i did that, i know christy did th that. Dylan, how could he help by do it . There are so many ways that if you just take the leap, you can talk with interpreters, who number one, have been trained enough and understand the history and, number two, want to talk with people who are interested in hearing more than a monologue, more than a few minutes but want to hear more about the experiences of the 18th century as well as contemporary experiences as well. So i suggest that as you run into those characters, that you take advantage of knowing them and delving deeply into the rich history theyve all been studying for so long. Also, id like to say that whatever it is that you can give that great grandchild, as a story teller, i tell a story and i equate it to something, so im always thinking of, okay, this connects to this and connects to that. Our young people need to hear what has already gone on so that they can make connections. You know, trayvon, you know, thats now, what about the 60s, what happened the 50s, what about the 40s . And with the internet now, all these stories coming up and i question them first of all because everything that i read aint true. Everything on the internet. No, no. Example, i read i dont know if youve seen this thing about putting rice in your hair. That some africanamericans put rice in their hair when they braid t ed it so they had sometg to eat on the middle passage. When i read that i went, i said theyre more concerned about rice than getting off the boat, that theyre preparing for the middle passage. The person at the other end said you learn something every day, you just learned something new. I said, no, i didnt. You know, you take a Little Common sense. Anyway, all im saying is there are little connections. Its the history. But then you say, okay, what did Valerie Holmes just tell me . Its seeing a program and saying, okay, what does this mean and where have i seen this before . That is why ive always said that africanamericans have long memories and we see things from 50 years ago that we know our an ses it. We know when people oh, good morning. We know that stuff. Because we have done that. And we have had to do that. We had to say, oh, good morning to you, maam. So we know that. And we see it and pick it up real quick. And thats because history has taught us what its like to hear the same thing and to see the same thing. So the stories we tell are still being told, a little different now. We want to stop and certainly acknowledge beth kelly. Yes. And steven seals, who is not here, who is in where is he . In iceland. Iceland, celebrating his wedding. He just got married. We just want to give honor to them for taking the time [ applause ] one more. And understanding the importance of this. As you say, its not just important tonight. Its important for so many reasons. And so many spaces and places we dont have an opportunity to sit and talk seriously about these kinds of issues. Somebodys on one side and somebodys on the other, and nobody is having a conversation like this or at least theres not enough conversations like this going on. So i hope Colonial Williamsburg can take the lead and continue these kinds of conversations as you hear, as you would like to hear more of these conversations as well, and i believe we have room for more. One more right here. And we can stay back, cant we . Well stay back after. I also wanted to thank you for what youre doing here and sharing all your experiences. But also, what i wanted to know is if its happening today, as the same type of support that you say you had during that time, is that happening with the black interpreters today, and do the white interpreters also know how its affecting everybody . Honestly, i cant speak to that. I havent worked in Colonial Williamsburg since 1999. Lets talk about it on july 5th, she said. Thats the focus on the contemporary program mix. May not be as dynamic as we are, but [ applause ] with that said, thank you all very much for joining us tonight. Thank you. All week, were featuring American History tv programs as a preview of whats available every weekend on cspan3. Lextures in history, american artifacts, real america. The civil war, oral histories. The presidency. And special event coverage about our nations history. Enjoy American History tv now and every weekend on cspan3. A look now at our primetime schedule on the cspan networks. Starting at 8 00 p. M. Eastern on cspan, journalists and former white house officials examine the relationship between the Trump Administration and the press. On cspan2, its book tv. With highlights from our in depth series. And on cspan3, American History tv, with programs on u. S. Legal history. Labor day weekend on American History tv. Saturday, at 8 00 p. M. Eastern, on lectures in history, a discussion about Abraham Lincoln and native americans. Sunday, at 4 00 p. M. , on reel america, the 1950 army film, invasion of southern france. And monday, labor day, at 8 00 p. M. Eastern, the commemoration of the 400th anniversary of virginias first general assembly. Held at jamestown. Explore our nations past on American History tv, every weekend on cspan3. Sunday night, on q a, university of Pennsylvania Law School professor amy wax on Free Expression on college campuses. And the conflicts surrounding an opinion piece she coauthored in the philadelphia inquirer. I think this is what ruffled a lot of people, that not all cultures are alike. We were trying to tout this code of behavior as being one that was particularly functional and suited to our current technological democratic capitalist society, and comparing it to other cultures which, you know, arent as functional. We gave some examples. And that immediately caused a firestorm. Sunday night at 8 00 p. M. Eastern on cspans q a. Next, a look at the district of columbia compensated emancipation act of april 16th, 1862. The act freed about 3100 slaves in the Nations Capital and compensated owners for each former slave. The panel also talked about the influence the act had on the emancipation proclamation which was issued eight months later. On this day 157 years ago, an act for the release of certain persons held to service or labor in the district of columbia became law. The d. C. Emancipatict