Occupation of a wild life refuge in oregon and standoffs with armed protesters in montana and nevada. The house resources subcommittee is looking into how to better protect workers on federal forests, parks, wild life refuges and other open spaces. Subcommittee on ports the unsubcommittee National Parks and public landless now come to order. We will hear testimony of antipublic lands extremism. Any oral Opening Statements are limited to the chair and the ranking minority member. Therefore, i ask unanimous consent that all other members Opening Statements be made part of the hearing record if they are submitted to the clerk by 5 00 p. M. Today. Hearing no objections, so ordered. Thank you all for being here today for the subcommittee on National Parks, forests and public lands hearings on combatting antipublic lands extremism. We are here today in part to review the results of a recent Government AccountabilityOffice Report detailing the impacts of antigovernment extremism on public land managers and federal facilities. As well hear that report found some shocking details about the threats these federal employees faced just doing their jobs. Federal land managers and Law Enforcement personnel have been followed around in stores, had their homes staked out and have even faced attempted murder at the hands of those who promote antigovernment ideologies. I hope that we can all agree that this is unacceptable. These people are hardworking Public Servants employed by the federal government. No one should face fear and harassment in their place of work or in their communities. I also think its important that we keep the larger context of these incidents in mind because these extremist ideologies did not develop in a vacuum. Antigovernment rhetoric more frequently being adopted by officials in positions of power is being used against our public lands and the Public Servants who punish them. It has a very real impact on peoples lives. As gao found, quote, some failed unit employee said in certain circumstances they consider receiving threats a normal part of their job. Officials describe being threatened while offduty such as being harassed in local stores or being monitored at their home which Officials Say in some cases they did not report because it was a common occurrence. If we can turn to the screen well see a handful of statements Public Officials have made in recent years. What senator harry reid may call patriots i call terrorists on the 2014 armed bundy militia standoff in bunkerville, nevada. The blm has become a Bureaucratic Agency of basically terrorism. So at what point do we band together as elected officials and say enough is enough of the blm and that was from state representative Michelle Fiore of nevada. The federal government, the blm, the forest s the fbi, the dea and any of those guys, theyre not elected. Those other entities, they answer to me. Beaver county, utah sheriff, cameron noe knoll. You, the people of nevada, not washington bureaucrat, should be in charge of your own land. I will fight day and fight to return full control of nevadas lands to its rightful own e its citizens and that was from senator ted cruz. This rhetoric often turns into violence. In 2012 utah governor gary herbert signed the utah transfer of public lands act which required federal agencies to seat ownership of most federal land to state control after 2014. A researcher at the university of california san diego found that in the year after utah and other Western State legislatures made their Land Transfer demands, those states saw nearly an 11 increase in violence directed at lans employees. In that context it is particularly disappointing to see my republican colleagues invite a witness today with little experience on the issues we are here to discuss and who has written favorably about giving away federal land to state and private control. Former blm director bob abby said in 2014, quote, the political rhetoric today does lead to animosity and increased tension and there is a belief because of that rhetoric that its okay to do certain things outside the law and some people believe that theyre going to get away with it. Today i hope we can, we can promote collaboration and end the culture of threats and violence. With that, id like to recognize Ranking Member curtis with his opening remarks. Thank you, madam chair. Absolutely no one in this room on either side of the aisle condones violence or threats against federal employees. Its unfortunate that i feel that i need to make that statement. Our boots on the ground are often in difficult positions. They may have to enforce on popular laws and regulations that have great impact on local communities and peoples livelihoods. Their safety should be and is of the utmost importance. While im supportive of the practical recommendations made in the gaos report we are looking at today i am concerned that the title and the focus of this hearing may be misleading. I take issue with the assertion made that theres a widespread problem of antigovernment threats and abuse occurring in the west. Being from the west and representing a state with a High Percentage of public lands, i would like to set the record straight. Calling for local ownership and control of public lands does not embody an attack on the federal government. As a matter of fact, me and my constituents feel just the opposite. The vast majority of my constituents impacted by the federal governments public land positions are Hardworking Taxpayers raising families and contributing to their communities. They love the beautiful public lands that surround them and want to be good stewards of them and part of the Decision Making process. This does not make them bad people. Theyre not dangerous or threatening to federal land managers in the field. In fact, i frequently hear how much they appreciate and work well with the local agent of these federal agencies. Land owners and users who disagree with specific management decisions should not be made to feel that somehow they will be placed on a Government Watch list of potential threats villainizing westerners does nothing to build the bridge of trust and cooperation that is vital to proper stewardship of the land and as is the case with most of our politics, fingerpointing and divisiveness is counterproductive in the long run. We will hear from gao witnesses regarding the report that the Committee Chairman asked them to compile which looks at the progress that the fish and Wild Life Service and National Park service have all made in recent years to bring their human, occupied facilities with post9 11 security standards. This important, while important to consider only took into account four years worth of data of recorded threats among the four Land Management agencies which each had different and often inconsistent methods of recording and there does not appear to be a way to differentiate the threats of violence and incidents as minor as a parking ticket. I believe they largely support the recommendations made in the gao report and they take common sense efforts to secure federal facilities. However, nothing in the report makes any mention of this existence of a culture of antigovernment attack and abuse which is the title of this hearing. My hope is that through the testimony of the witnesses here today we can all learn the powerful lesson that the vast majority of citizens are not like those in the rare, highprofile headlinegrabbing incidences that should be here today. My constituents do not wish to have conflict and seek compromise ask cooperation from their government. I hope to hear examples today on how federal lands and local citizens have worked to seek Mutual Understanding and come up with collaborative on the Ground Solutions which net the most positive outcome for all concerned. We should be promoting and fostering more of the collaborative and cooperative effort which is will do far more to facilitate safety than even spending tens of millions of dollars to create hardened, secure fortresses. With that, madam chair, ooird like to thank the witnesses for being here today and i look forward to their testimony and i yield my time. Thank you, mr. Curtis. I would like to turn to our witness panel. Under our Committee Rule, oral statements are limited to five minutes and you may submit a longer statement for the record if you choose. The lights in front of you will turn yellow when there is one minute left and red when time has expired. After the witnesses have testified members will be given the opportunity to ask questions. The chair now recognizes mr. Dan nichols, rancher and former Harney County supervisor. Mr. Nichols, you have five minutes. Thank you for the opportunity to speak to you today. My name is dan nichols, and im a selfemployed rancher of 41 years and the past committee on the National Wild life refuge. A retired county commissioner and as a Partnership Board member and three of the five ongoing collaborative number tiffs in our community. The economy of the county is a Natural Resource based with the reliance on the multiple use concept by the u. S. Forest service and the blm and the wild life refuge. It lies in the southeast corner of oregon and the 75 federally and state owned and it has a land mass of 10,120 square miles larger than six west coast states and has a population of 7,380 people of which 5200 are registered to vote. A quick look at an oregon state map and one would incorrectly assume that the area is basically uninhabited. My comments today to you come from this perspective. Rural americans especially in a large federally owned and managed states are not being listened to, much less heard. Opinions and desires residing outside of communities are politically driving issues that result in legitimate grievances with federal Land Management policies. Much of what is often described as antigovernment is really coming fray place of feeling excluded or being on the losing end of unbalanced Natural Resource knowledge inment. In the course of doing their job, federal employees become the local messengers of new approximately sees and regulations resulting in them becoming the recipients of the frustration and anger of the people that are not being listened to. Our community has issues of concern with federal Land Management. We are not unique in that regard. What does mach us unique is the issues of potential ascension and polarization are resolved. The culture of collaboration has been established in Harney County that enabls tes the diversity of opinions that need to be collectively considered any the positive attribute to the process has been working directly with the federal employees in our community. Through that interaction, the community has gained an appreciation for them as professional, individuals and contributing members of our community. Collaboration also provides a venue for a discussion of issues with the Broader Community beyond Harney County. For us, the Term Community includes those with an interest and a commitment to participate including stakeholders from outside the local area who care about issues in ways that we may not always appreciate. Its necessary to have them at the table, as well, because it gives everyone an opportunity to speak and listen, we learn and better understand each others views. It is a setting where rural voices are heard and understood by those in areas that are the source of many of the problematic issues. Collectively through collaborative efforts we have found an ability to meet our interests. The cop rattive management and protection act of 2000 which was sponsored and written by congressman greg walden and the National Wild life refuge, comprehensive plan and the wildfire dlwild life collaborative, and it has changed with the ways we deal with complex and controversial issues of Harney County. Real benefits have been achieved for the local uneconomity, the federal agencies and the Natural Resources we all care about, urban and rural alike. We can all learn from lessons of people that are successfully bridging divides. Our experience can provide the opportunity for congress to develop a tomorrow at for a muchneeded larger discussion. I ask for your support of a larger collaborative in addressing legitimate grievances and concerns of the american public. Collaboration is recognized as the successful approach to issue resolution in Harney County, the state of oregon needs to be implemented on the national level, as well. Thank you, and i look forward to any questions you may have. Thank you very much, mr. Nichols. The chair now recognizes professor peter a. Walk e professor of geography at university of oregon. You have five minute, sir. My name is peter walker. Im a professor of geography and environmental studies at the university of oregon. I personally observed the 2016 armed occupation of the wild life refuge in Harney County, oregon. After the occupation, i conducted research in Harney County for more than two years including the indepth interviews with individuals representing all parts of the community. My observations are recorded in my book sagebrush collaboration, how Harney County defeated the takeover of the wild life refuge. A lot can be learned from the refuge occupation for preventing such incidents and for safeguarding federal employees and enabling them to work constructively in Rural Communities. The great majority in Harney County opposed the occupation and rejected the militants plan to launch an antifederal government revolution from ha n Harney County. I use the word militants because they used armed force and tactics to achieve a radical political goal. The situation was explosive. Almost certainly if the community had heeded the calls of the militant, lives would have been lost. Harney county rejected it in large part because the community had invested for decades in building collaborative approaches to solving precisely the kind of Resource Management issues the militants said could only be resolved through armed force. In the past, there had been a lot of hostility between the community and federal agencies and theyre the end of the 1990s, Harney County was tired of fighting and especially tired of litigation. The existing system was failing to produce outcomes that almost anyone wanted and when people knew that regulations would be coming they wanted to get ahead of the process and make sure local voices would be heard. Farmers, ranchers, environmentalists, tribes and federal, state and county workers intentionally built a culture of collaboration. The community bet that Better Solutions could be found by building relationships and really listening to each other. Humanize those with whom they might see things differently. For decades, over oneonone phone calls and cups of coffee at kitchen table, the Community Created their own ways to solve problems. When outside militants had a violent confrontation, the community had a better way. Federal employees were central to this history. Ironically, the outside militants had no idea that Harney County was recognized nationally as something of a poster child for collaborative approaches including building positive relationships with federal workers. The militants believed by vilifying and harassing federal employees they would rally support for their cause. The militants leader later said that he never met a bureau of Land Management or by implication, any federal employee who is a, quote, good person, end quote. By 2016 post people in Harney County just didnt see it that way. Through collaboration, federal employees were contributing to better problem solving in large part by making themselves more integral parts of the community and above all, by listening. No longer just uniforms and badges, federal employees were friends and members of the community and Harney County does not like members of the community being harassed. When the occupation ended, ranches with allotments helped at din tore honor the National Fish and wild life employees to reaffirm that the federal workers are valued members of the community. As a nation, were enormously fortunate that by chance the militants chose Harney County, the community told militants to go home. We should see the relatively peaceful outcome of the occupation as hopeful evidence that conflicts between Rural Communities and federal agencies can be minimized and in at least some cases Winwin Solutions can be found with the culter