You have written 1450 pages on material open the white house. What was the hardest part . Well, i guess the research was the hardest part. Also, compressing it for that many pages. Compressing the huge story for many things that could be used or had to be dealt with in the senate. I would love to have gone on and on about but i couldnt. Its the process of actually throwing things out. Even with 1400 pages. Ive got this here, two volume set. When did you first write this . The first part of it up to president trumans renditions novations at the white house. This takes the story to the end of the first bush administration. How did you approach the story . The whole story. Who are you writing it for . The central characters of the house and the various people who go there and the various people and their reactions to living there. The development of an institution which president obama will enter a very well organized institution to serve his work. And you have to look at it that way in the white house. If you had to pick a president , this is not a political question, more of a interesting or fun or whatever. Which president and his family would you like to have lived with in the history . Thats very hard. Probably monroe. It was an interesting time in American History tv. The period of monroe and the end of the war of 1812. And going into a boom situation. I think the years from 1816 to 1819 would have been fairly exciting at the white house. What would it have been like in the white house . James monroe was looked a little bit like George Washington. And he was considered like a younger son to the founding fathers. And he was extremely popular. He was second election one person voted against him. So it wouldnt be unanimous and take the thunder away from George Washington. He lived there. He did the white house up because he thought Political Parties were dead. That the nation was won having finally defeated it was on its own. It was going to turn inward. In fact it did in the development for the whole century. And he did the white house up very grandly. The dish is still used in today. And he made his grand progresses through the country and seeing the various areas. No tv then so they could see him. Interesting as grand as the white house got, there was a little down to earth. Monroe didnt have enough money to do the tours. Theyre very expensive. So he would have french furniture he and his wife bought in france when he was the late minister to france. He would sell it to the government and take the money and take the tours. When his salary of 25,000, which was huge then, would come in, he would pay it back. This pattern was repeated a number of times. Never known until the next administration caught on and it became a scandal. His period was vibrant. He soon learned there were Political Parties and there was financial disaster and so on and so forth. It was a brilliant eight years. For a lot of people at the end of this hour, we will run our 90 minute its longer than that. Almost two hour documentary. Im going to avoid asking the obvious questions people can see about the president s that everybody talks about. And as i read your book we saw some Great Stories about some lesser known president s. Im going it pick one out. Martin van buren. Im going to quote from your book. He actively spent less than half as much as andrew jackson, approximately the same amount as the second adams, john quincy adams, and not half as much. History, never the less will call brought up the whole issue who spent the most money. All. Van buren lived in a more elegant manner. He came down and put on a show in the white house. It was a show. Expenses were associated with it. The most important thing he did to the white house was put in central heating. And he did that but otherwise van buren spent very little compared to jackson who did a lot. Jackson the father, you might say, of the grounds. And finished the east room and bought lots of furniture and things like that. What did he do for a first lady . His daughter and daughterinlaw angelica was married to abraham and was from south carolina. She was quite a character. Big, tall girl. Her portrait hangs in the red room. And theres a lot of different first lady. The first first lady to die in the white house was mrs. Tyler. 1840s. Mrs. Jackson died just before jackson went to the white house. But mrs. Tyler. She was ill when she went there. She died and the president , rather soon, by most standards, remarried a much younger woman. A friend of his children. They only had a couple much months there. But that was very lively in their time. How did john tyler by the death of William Harry henry who was the great hero. His election was far more of a common mans election than andrew jacksons. He lived for 30 days and died. His wife never even made it over the mountains. So tyler took over. He proved more a project to deal with than the politicians. The politicians surrounding him thought they would, as they had with jackson, is expected to with jackson, they thought they were going to tell him what to do. There was a split and tyler changed parties. What did his first wife die of . I suppose it was consumption. I dont know. She was very ill for a long time. And just sank and sank. I dont really know. And he was president for how long . Tyler was president for, oh, well, almost four years. Just 30 days under four years. He goes into the white house and his wife dies within about two years. He remarries while hes in the white house . She was 24 years old. Yes. She was young. How many chirp did he have up until that point . Six, as i recall. He had about eight with him. They were still having children at the time of the civil war when he was had quite a family. In fact, his grandson was his son, im sorry, was the library at the college of william and mary until the mid 20th century. I know when we did the series on president s, we interviewed, i think the last surviving son or grandson. Grandson. Had to be grandson. It was, like, because of all these children. Yeah. He had lots of children. He figured in the civil war period i read in your book that the story about what happened after he left the white house and move in. Why would you leave the white house and move to the Willard Hotel . To make way for the president. And she died at the willard that night. The first night they were gone. He was simply making way for repairs coming in. He was a selfmade man. Meaning he probably came from a Stable Family but he had nothing financially to help him along. He was a survey vor as many president s had been. And he and his wife were a sophisticated couple. When they built the First White House library, which is relative minor. If you read the titles of the book, they were sophisticated. Ever. All the latest books on landscape and poetry and all those things were in there in history. And so for affecting us even more is the capitol. Enlargement of the capitol. No way could it be violated. They were adding out to the side and the original dome came to look like there. It was ridiculous. They needed a vertical piece for the capitol to offset that long horizontal. This lead to the decision, you couldnt put a masonry dome on there. State capitols had them. You couldnt put a heavy masonry dome on the brick walls. Thats when they went to iron. Copied from saint isaacs cathedral in russia. It was light enough to thats why we have the dome. Hoe changed the original plan a lot. But it was the avenue avantgarde thing to do. He was most remembered about the first bathtub in the white house. He was most interesting character. And sophisticated president. New yorker. Yes. Upstate. And got the job how . He didnt get elected. Through the death of zachary taylor. President taylor. He and president taylor went to the fourth of july where billed himself as the child of mount vernon. He was mrs. Washingtons grandson. He delivered these in this particular one was four hours long. And the sun was hot and the president was old and he went back to the white house famished and ate iced cherries. They lead to something and he developed phenomena and died very quickly. What did they do in the white house after his death . Thats one of the things, one of the things your book is how much death has happened in the white house. And what they do with it. The 19th century, you know, death was very frequent with many family. It happened all the time. You know, you could go out and get your feet wet, i guess, get your feet wet and have them die in two days or a day. It happened all the time. People were very careful about that. He put in a receiving wall and later buried in kentucky. What kind of precedent was set up. What kind of thing almost happened around death in the white house . You mean the response . I mean, a lot of people have been embalmed. Well, they all are. Not all but in the old days they always were. Just like people were embalmed at home. And a president harris who died in the white house was the first. And the officials surrounding him went to darius clacken, owner of a large store in town. And there had been state funerals at the capitol. So darius just went in and all the mirrors were covered, the chandeliers, all the things like that were covered and the president was dressed in his uniform and actually it was in a sheet and put in the east room and with his dress sword for the next on top and the funeral was held. Lets go back to this. Who commissioned you to write the book . The White House Historical association. Can you remember how it started . Who came to you and under what circumstances 1234. Well, i was interested in doing the book. I was interested in building and american houses and about state capitols and things like that. So i got interested in the white house because its so beautiful. And i was doing some work for the association connected with a film, and pri proposed this and various officials liked the idea. There was not a scholared history of the white house. And so thats how it started. It started that way and they it was a Commission Order by then. And i had absolutely utter freedom. Not one word has been dictated to me by the association at all. And now if you publish first in 1988, when did you start work on it . Ten years before then. 76. I started in the late 70s. Published in 86 and started ten years earlier. Yeah. How did you go about it . Had t hadnt been done before. The most important one was published in 1909. Two volumes. They mostly came from official reports. Fortunately the records in the white house, for the most part, have been maintained carefully. Because an administration keeps because they might be criticized the by next administration for something. Like monroe. And so National Archives has all of that. Or as much as exists. There are blind spots but not much. And so i had that and the idea was to do a small architecture in the history of the white house when i later did after that book. But he just the association being the historical Nonprofit Organization sole purpose to interpret the white house to the American People but i thought there was more to do and so thats went into the documents and documents, and documents and to create this and, of course, i had been going to provide something that would sell like hot cakes or sen sessional book, i would have produced a book rather than a history like this. It would have been 400 pages or Something Like that. But to tell the story, you have to tell the story. Thats why. Im not apologizing but thats why its 1400 pages long. It goes into all that about the white house on varying levels of interest. But centered again in the building. One of the things that who dow yo you think about sitting down . Its strange. History books, i guess because ive been one im a historian. Ive been a history buff. I would like to think that when my time is up, these books will exist and theyll be 10,000 term papers for kids in school. I tried to write it they could take. And read that part of it and get a picture of life in the white house and an not even very long ago never had anything. And very rare. About the presidency but not about life in the house. So that was one of the personal motivations is that young people can get these stories. I hate to say it, but thats what they are. Out of the house. The reaction to living. The very strange situation. You were born in beaumonth, texas. Yes. What is the short history from texas and alexander, virginia . Well, texas was a curious place to become historical. Its strange how much thinking back on it i got of a historical character. And my interest started there. I was next to louisiana. I had friends that lived in a plantation. I had relatives who lived in new mexico. And then the oil boom and still people that remember it. All of it goes together. My father was interested in history, as well. He was an independent oil operator. My mother was a housewife who didnt read things. Anyway, she would read the romantic novels. Anyhow, just what i was interested in. When did you leave there . Well, i married, i went away to school and then i married in 66 and we lived there for two years and moved. Again going east. Briefly in south carolina, columbia to restorehouses. Im interested in that, too. Historic preservation. We moved here in 71. I studied history and then i went on to duke university. Before we come back to this, Glen Fontaine and alfred lund. Some of our audience will go where did that come from . And in wisconsin. Well i do restoration work and consulting on restoration and state capitols, primarily but some Historic House museums. Dear friends from all over the country. Buildings that i worked on. Envery interested and creative man, a businessman from madison just went and bought it. He was interested in theater history. Had a doctrine in theater history though he was a businessman. And and his wife bought it and just said arch thought about it for about a year. They asked me to come in and think about it. It was tough. The curtains were rot ten, cobwebs everywhere. But you got to thinking about it, sure it ought to be left exactly like this. It would please a few carriers but no one else would understand it. They were specific. They spent every summer there. And went back to new york for the season. So i recommended that it be brought back. So everything was conserved. Only rot ten fabrics were replaced. They took layers of cigarette stains off the murals and then spent a month every summer and vivian lee and lawrence secretly met there during the filming of gone with the wind. They were going together but they were still married. I notice on the witness its going to teach. I think there are 11 fellows. You going to participate . I dont know. I havent been invited. They have across the hill on the farm near littleton where no one ever tell these two people where they live. Maybe about 50 miles. But they love them. But over this hill, they built a big center. For this sort of thing. For reading, studying, acting. He died unfortunately a few weeks after it opened. He wanted it to be an ongoing Educational Center as well as the house. And the house is kept historical thing. Its very unmuseumish. Lets go back to the white house. Any idea how many books have sold . Around 200 volumes. Theres a brand new one out. 2008. The one you have. That sells for how much . 59. 95. It takes 400 extra pages additional and revised a lot in the earlier part that just has been a continuing vibe. Researching this stuff. I love it. Theres no difference in the content. Why is there two different publishers of the book . Two different publishers but the association wanted to do a specially designed edition. There is a more scholarly presented edition. And this one is more elaborate. More jazzed up. How do you buy this one . On the web. On the web. We asked during the campaign and the middle of all the polling to tack on four or five questions about the white house. Here are the results. How were you and the first time you visited washington, d. C. , and we found out that 41 had never visited but 59 had. 828 visited when they were younger than 17. 18 visited 18 to 29 and 10 visited when they were 30 to 49. And 65 and older what does that say to you . That their parents took them to see the national capitol. Let me go to the second question because it would when you think of washington, d. C. , which building comes to mind of renting america. This is not on yes it is. 50 percent is the white house, 21 the capitol, 41 lincoln memorial. Are you surprised the white house is 50 . Yes, i would have thought the capitol because of the dome. Which was a monumental symbol before it was finished during the civil war. And i would have thought that the u. S. Capitol would immediately set america. But television intervened since the 50s and beginning of the 50s. And the white house is an icon to the presidency and the president is the closest point of human contact we have in our system. And i suppose that accounts for that. The man sleeps a the white house. Thats his home. I think theres that. The identity and parenthetically and i dont think the white house would exist. I think the whole nation shared his north and south melodrama of his family. People had it in their minds. It always Congress Never moved. And the question we wanted answered was have you ever taken a tour of the white house. It turns out 19 of the americans have toured the white house. 80 say no. It means what age group and that its between 50 and 60 Million People this this country have toured the white house. That makes sense . Yeah. It used to be. It used to be a million and a half. Its more restricted now. You have to go by reservation through a member of congress. But it was open. You could stand in line and go through. Ive done it myself many times with friends. It isnt anymore but there were that many people that. They clocked how many went through. It doesnt surprise me. If you were offered a tour of the white house, which of the following rooms would you be interested in . Oval office is 53 . And the next is the private residence. Were going it see that in the documentary later. The curiosity of. I would like to see with the president lives. And the only thing that surprises me is the east room. Its been seen so many times. Particularly since president john who began to use it a lot for press conferences and things. Here is is a picture of new hampshires own franklin paris. I want to get back to the stories you have. The story of benjamin paris. And jane and what her years in the white houses were like. And do you remember what years he was president . 1853 to 1