2, at the facility in dolphin county, pooh. It occurred 40 years ago. The incident rated a 5 on the 7 Point InternationalNuclear Event scale. Heres how ed bradley of cbs news covered it. This time no evacuation. Please stay inside. Middletown at this time is evacuation. Please stay indoors with your windows closed. This is not a community that scares easily. Major floods and hurricane agnes have come here and the town has survived. But for almost a week last month, the people of middletown, pennsylvania, lived in fear of an enemy they couldnt see, hear, or feel. Cbs news, of course that fear was radiation following the partial meltdown at tmi, the Nuclear Generating station considered the most Serious Nuclear power accident in the history of the u. S. For the next 90 minutes, well look back at the events that occurred. Eric epstein is joining us live. Hes the chair of the three mile island alert which is what . Three mile island aslert a safe energy organization. We were founded in 1977, two years before the accident at three mile island. Were a nook your Watchdog Group that monitors three Nuclear Power plants on the susquehanna river. You were there 40 years ago, march 28th, 1979. What do you remember as the news broke and the story unfolded in the days and weeks that fold . Followed . I think its interesting, you covered mr. Bradleys comments. We had a by fur indicated response. I was away at college but we had a Furniture Store and we had endured and survived three floods and a fire. We were hunkered down. He we delivered a dinette on saturday, the day after the evacuation. My brother who hadnt been born, he wawas in his first trimester my father evacuated. Like a lot of folks there are was confusion, anxiety, chaos. Company was providing disinformation and misnfs. You could tell by the lieutenantgovernors comments on thursday, the day after the accident. And by friday that teed things up for a precautionary evacuation which was for preschool children and pregnant women living within five miles of the plant that. Population was 5,000. Approximately 144,000 people evacuated from about as far from 0 to 50 miles. We werent prepared for an evacuation. I think now we have bet plans. But it was right outside of the ten mile zone. Hershey park and william penn high school. The problem is we call it a shadow evacuation. Who you declare an evacuation, people leave. And they left. And a lot of people left not knowing if they were coming back. It was a psychic terror. A lot of people because this is an Agricultural Community stayed to take care of their livestock and animals and a lot of people were conflicted. Do i leave . Dont go . Do i leave my pets behind . What do i do . This was not the age of the 24hour news cycle. The big issue was a block of trust. What made it even more difficult and confusion was the china syndrome had just been released several weeks ago. So folks really didnt have a baseline knowledge of Nuclear Power. Some journalist were tasked to see the china syndrome before they covered the story. And on wednesday things, you know, occurred when we learned that there was a problem at tmi, we later learned that 40 of the core melted. We didnt really know the damage until 1982, 83 when the temperatures reached 4,800 degrees. But we had two phases i of the accident. Lost a coolant accident thaentd a Hydrogen Bubble. There were two prongs to the accident. And honestly folks had to respond based on loyal to no knowledge and the company didnt help as you found in the utah report and in the hart report they intentionally misled the governor as to the swear the of the severitity of the accident. When we heard keep your windows and doors shut, would that have made a difference in what they knew and didnt know . I think bradley had the preparedness of the company, the government, and then the community. I interviewed people who were in Elementary School on the west shore of the river who were told to go home. They were kwids kids in Elementary School, put a book over their head and hold their breath. These precautionary instructions we got really would have little to noem pact on mitigating the effects of exposure to radiation. Youve got remember friday when the evacuation occurred, it was an unreasonably warm day so people were outside, school was in session. So you had chaos. People coupme together school t pick up their kids. Three stops, getting gas, going away, not knowing inner that coming back. One of the things we found after the accident is that the community suffered from chronic elevated psychological stress. You can see the cooling fours behind us are haunting. So for about 79, march 28, 79, the eighth plant in wasnt involved in the accident, tmi unit one was shut down for refueling at the time. This plant was shut down and there was a battle over should we restart the plant . Peoples responses were mixed and confused and it wasnt helped by the fact that they misled the governor. It begins on wednesday, evacuation on friday. President carter came on sunday. I think that calmed a lot of people, but the real hero was the mayor here of middletown, robert reed, who stayed behind. Hes still here. Hes not mayor, he just stepped down. But Common People hundred Common Courage during that time. I think this community is no exception, you know. We were born here, lived here, will probably pass here for the most part. Were revolutionary era stock. Were not going anywhere. Weve survived floods and fires. Unfortunately a core meltdown is not something you expect to have to survive. But what the viewers should know, the action is not over. Unit 2 was defueled. It hasnt been decommissioned, it hasnt been decontaminated. Only operated for 90 days. It was supposed to operate for 40 years. So we still have a highlevel radioactive waste site on an island in a river that may never be cleaned up. In a sense, the accident still continues. Our guest is eric epstein. Hes the chair of the three mile island alert. We are dividing our phone lines regionally. And if youre a resident of the area in central pennsylvania, you can join in by calling us at 2027488002. Eric epstein, what happened 40 years ago . Well, what happened was, you know, i dont know if you want to call it an accident. An accident is when a deer fluns fro runs in front of a truck and gets hit. The pilot operator relief valve which opened as it should had indicated on the channels that it had closed and it hasnt closed. We had a loss of coolant accident. Thousand of gallons of water were lost. It wasnt until there was a shift change until the valve was actually closed. We found out through the department of energy years later that the temperatures were about 4,800 degrees, which was significant. And, again, a core melt accident which led to the fuel being exposed and interacting with oxygen which creates hydrogen. And so that created the Hydrogen Bubble scare. So you have the loss of cool nt accident. A lot of us doesnt really know what that meant. We didnt have a baseline knowledge of nuclear. Its the fear of the unknown. You have the china syndrome in the background. Misinformation, disinformation, and finally by friday governor thornburg and commissioner henry agreed do a precautionary evacuation. The Hydrogen Bubble issue gradually receded and the plant was put into cold shutdown, it took several weeks to get to that condition. So one of the things that happened was a loss of trust. I mean, this is a very conservative republican, biblebelt area and i was one of the people that thought this was a great thing. This was a magical technology. Too keep that meter in the was the future. It was hard to believe that not only did it fail when it was being built we were told it was as likely as a meteor falling from the sky for an accident to happen. Not only did it fail, but we were misled. And in this area once you lose peoples trust, very hard to get it back. Let get to our phone calls. Don is joining us, alexandria, virginia. Good morning. Yeah, good morning. I appreciate cspan having this piece on. I really would like to note that while three mile island was absolutely an accident, a fuel melt, no substantial products were released to the environment. It was all contained as designed. Radiation levels were minor to almost nothing and the general area around the plant, no one was hurt. No bad Health Effects occurred. And that was a test of the the design to absolutely mitigate and contain the worst case accident. Thank you, don. Well get a response. Thats an absurd assertion. Its based on bad science. Its wilcox plant, the design that was breached could have been anticipated. Davis bessey had a similar incident in 1978, the year before, the valve that failed was manufactured by dresser industries. Had a 10 failure rate. The man is absolutely misinformed. The monitors went off stack. Filters were clogged. The monitors at that time could only absorb lowlevel amounts of radiation. If you look at the dose inventory, the amount of radiation released which is still controversial because we didnt have exact measurements, were looking at anything from 10 million curries to 200 currys. And were looking at columbia, pittsburgh, and the health study last year which found increased Thyroid Cancer at penn state, clearly the facts on the ground demonstrate people were harmed by three mile island, there were huge releases of radiation. When he interviewed there are was people that lived in the pathway of radiation exposure, they all reported the same thing. Folks around here dont lie. They reported metallic taste, sunburn, eye irritation, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea all consistent with exposure to radiation. So if you dont look you dont find. And the nrc hasnt changed the amount of currys they think was released was 10 million. We believe zrong thatstrongly i to a hundred. If nothing was released, youll have to ask the company why they settled Health Claims in excess of 100 million. In this country, money tends to speak. Eric epstein, physically, geographically where are you located . Well, three mile island is an interesting island. Its actually not three tiles, its 2. 2 miles. Were the closest Nuclear Power plaint pla plant. Were in South Central pennsylvania about 12 miles from the capital. Were close to the amish. Its very difficult to Contact People that dont have a phone to evacuate. To the west is your county. And this was going to be an energy park. This was an image of america. You had three mile island behind us. Brunner island that was a coal plant toot west the west. And if you go over to the Community Across from us were theres a plaque to late frederick that said this is the future atomic power at 3 mile island, coal at brunner island, small hydroplant that ed managed, and this is great it still is great waterskiing and firning. I came down here to remembering create, as did everybody. I was pro nuclear. Thinged changed things changed. But youre in the heartland of conservative republican bible belt pennsylvania. Lets go to annie joining us from sugar grove, north carolina. Good morning. Hi, good morning, steve. Before i ask my question, i have a dmocomment to make about your 30day callin rule. As my mother would say, i have a fw bone to pick with you. You have a caller who calls in from north charleston, south carolina. You guys chat it up hes got a very distinctive voice and hes called in february 18th, march the fifth, and two other dates. Hes called in four times in 66 days. Ive left comments on your comment line at least two times for sure, three times, because i recognize his voice. And you two chat it up, how you doing, steve . Great, steve, how are you, steve . I know you know who he is. Well duly noted. Well do a better job to make sure steve doesnt get through. Go ahead with your question. I think he needs to be banned, really. Im really sick of it. But my question regards i had just turned 24 years old when that happened. And when three mile island happened. My question is, if its so close to hershey, i have heard over the years that yes. Its not really safe to buy chocolate made in that area because of the fallout. Thank you for your time. Thank you, annie. You know, steve, thats a really good question. Let me answer it in two tranches. The First Tranche is this is an area, when youre asking where are we, this is an area with people came to visit. Were next to the amish which people love to see lancaster county. People came here for hershey and people came for the gettiesberg battlefield. We were within a whiff of losing all of that. One of the things that occurred to this community this was a place you wanted to go to. After that you became a pa rye. This is a place you wanted to avoid. Hershey did buy milk from the area farmers to make chocolate. They froze it. Half life of the nuclei that it was exposed to was about eight days. They froze it for about 90 and then used it again. Thats with one of the pushbacks you got off the accident is tourism went down. We took an economic hit. People didnt want to come to the area. You to still have Hershey Chocolate. They froze it but used it later. Its a legitimate issue. Being born and raised here, i love living here so i feel fortunate to live so close to hershey and lancaster and gettysburg and encourage people to come here. I know theres a certain a. Dark tourism, people love to snap pictures of tmi. But think Hershey Chocolate say superior product. And well go to bonnie dmo who lives in the area in lancaster, pennsylvania. Good morning. Good morning. What do you want to know . All i can remember is that my brother brought my parents down through the door they lived in elizabethtown and my father was clutching his coin collection. I thought he was going to pass out. Number two, i lost two classmates. And they said that they believed that they downwind, they lived in bane bridge and they died from cancer and they think it was due to tmi. Thirdly, my father remembers when they used to farm the three mile island. I guess they took a barge across. I would imagine my father was born in 1916, so i dont know if they took a track or whatever, but he said it was a cornfield. Number four, tmi is called three mile island because it is three miles from the center of middletown. Bonnie, thank you. Yeah, ive heard that before, but the three mile island what it was it had a host of names prior to this, honestly. And, well, were stuck with three mile island. But she raises a good issue. And one of the things i would encourage people do is go to the tmi survivors facebook. Theres several thousand members and they discuss the experiences they had, the Health Effects they believe they had. Weve done four surveys, theyre all in college, we have our archives. And the surveys were done by norman and marjorie, jay lee who is passed away, mary osborne, newburgh township let by pat smith and tmi alert. If anyones interested were still doing surveys. But thats something we do. In the last couple of years theres been a significant uptick in Thyroid Cancer and thats why hershey medical, i believe, conducted a study last year that indicated increased in Thyroid Cancer for folks living near three mile island. Theyre going to expand that study and continue to look at it. Unfortunately, three mile island, like other Nuclear Plants, has no health or regular city for workers unlike department of defense where we can track those. And the commonwealth of pennsylvania no longer tracks the incident. Kind of up to citizens and ive encouraged people to good to the Facebook Page or web page. We have a press pact for the 40th anniversary or you can contact us if you want to continue discussion after this episode. And eric epstein, you mentioned the film the china syndrome which was released just a couple of weeks before three mile island accident. Heres a trailer from that 1979 movie. The china syndrome. Its about people. People who lie and people faced with the agony of telling the truth. Right. People like kimberly wells, a Television Reporter paid to smile, not to think. The few words bay veterinarian who makes house calls on sick fish, or is it a query of calls . Richard adams, a cameraman who never learned thousand play by the rules. Wait until you get in the other room and get that radiation all over that cute little body. Jack, an engineer who knows to much to tell the truth. In anything man does, theres some risk. Thats why we have defense indepth. He cares too much to lie. Start with a tremor in a Nuclear Power plant. Where it will end will depend on three people. I would say youre probably lucky to be alive. Same for the rest of southern california. Jane fonda. Lets face it, you didnt get this job because of your investigative abilities. Kimberly, dont fight it. Jack lemon. There was a michael douglas. I dont know that accident is the right word. Accident is the right word. That trailer from the china syndrome and eric epstein just put that in perspective. Well, the one quote i would extract from that is the quote from the character who said safety and death. That used to be the monitor of industry, safety in depth. Redundancy systems. What weve seen say large scaleback in staffing levels. Weve seen the nrc turn into a regulatory body that occurred in 1999 had they inserted whats known as reactive oversight process. Since 79 lessons were learned. I think training has improved. But i think were following back to where we were in 79. I dont see safety in depth anymore. I see older plants, aging plants that be arent working as well and staffed to the levels they should be. Refueling outages which used to be 12 months are now 18. Now were every two years. So i think that that issue sometimes get missed. I think the other thing that was chilling about the china syndrome is the spokesperson was eerily reminiscent of jack you a areer vine. Which only compounded the fear anding an skpiet. It was filmed back then from the area as the story continues to unfold in middletown, pennsylvania. As we listen to bar