Good afternoon ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the night tv studio, another edition of our program. As the 2020 president ial election, starts to invade our daily news feed, and with joe biden feeling the fire this week. What better time to look back at the history of the presidency, and looking at the character and dignity of the man holding the office. The title tells it all of our book, youll be hearing from susans wayne soon, who will discuss how her book came together, based on the historian survey of president ial leadership. Following the presentation, i have the distinct privilege of speaking with brian lam, the chairman of cspan, who over the course of many years conducted the interviews, with president ial historians that make up the content of the book, and we are also joined today by historians can ackerman, and David Stewart who have both contributed to the book. At this time please welcome susans wayne. Hello nice to see you, we have a long long friendship and relationship with the journalist and the freedom forum, its almost as oldest cspan. Its a delight to be here with them and you this afternoon. To talk about a project that cspan took on about a year and a half ago. This year, is he spends 40th anniversary. We started in 1979 with coverage of the house of representatives. Thank you. About a year and a half ago i went down to bryan lams office and said i have a great idea for our project for a project for our 40th anniversary. We have done nine books of interviews, and collected works and the most recent one was in 2015, a collection of biographies of the first ladies. It felt like if youre going to do anything special for a 40 thunderously, we ought to add the president s to our bookshelf. And our collection. But the idea was to actually use to resources and we are putting this together. We took the idea to our longtime publishers, a Public Affairs press in new york. Who specialize in nonfiction books, started by a journalist from the washington post. The idea was to merge too significant resources. First one collection, of brian lambs 30 years of interviews, for his sunday Night Program and among those hundreds and hundreds of hours for some of the top president ial historians that are a lot today, and the work they have done spending often years of their lives. That was one idea. To use the basis of the interview for the collection. The second was to merge that with the work that weve been doing for the last 20 years, and that is a historian survey of president ial leadership. Back in 1999 we spent a year on the road visiting Historic Sites associated with every single president. It was an enormous project. We are live on vacation on location, almost 39 sites at that point. Doing a big production sometimes indoors sometimes in houses that were 200 years old. To tell the stories of the president s. These three historians, have become dear friends of our network over the year. Douglas brinkley you might see him often on television. Richard norton smith, often on cspan. He has started five president ial libraries. He is currently working on the biography of gerald are flowed. Gerald ford. And edna green met furred. New it would be nice to put a cap around all this was something scientific and we devised the idea of doing the survey of president ial historians but then the question was how would we measure them. Lots of interesting intellectual debate pursued, and then we decided on ten qualities of president ial leadership. That would be the metrics for the president s. Okay here they are. Public persuasion, crisis leadership, Economic Management management, moral Authority International relations, administrative skills. Which would include the running of the departments your cabinet etc. The next is relations with congress, vision setting an agenda, pursued equal justice for all. The final performance within the context of their times. The idea is that it is very difficult for us to take our 24 century eyes and judged back but we are asking the historians to say take into account the circumstances of the society of that time, and try to give them some credit for doing the best they might have been able to do in the circumstances surrounding them. So the ten metrics went out to 100 historians and professional observers of the presidency. We try to mix demographically, and politically. Of the people who took the survey. So it could be as broad as possible. And as i mentioned, what we did the first one in 2000, it was such a success that that was at the time that bill clinton was leaving. So when george w. Bush left we did it again, and then again in 2017 when barack obama left office. We now have three extensive surveys of historians. Over the course of that time, who is up and who is down. This is over the 20 years. First and george action, guess what he is down. Maybe our historians can tell us why. Woodrow wilson also down. From six to 11th place. Referred to be haze another one whos down. I would like to hear more about why the historians are bringing him down as years go by. Grover cleveland, elected three times, and the popular vote, one from 17th place to the 23rd place. Dwight eisenhower top five. Started out in ninth place 20 years ago. Bill clinton, he started out a 21st place. Remember it was in 2000. Right after the impeachment. Then by the time we did the survey, eight years later he had moved to 15th, and he stated 15th in this last survey as well. Okay ulysses us grant. An interesting. One 33rd place to 22nd. 11 points hes moved up. Im sure that we will learn a little bit more from our historians perspectives, as to why he is raising up in their estimation. You may also remember, theres been a grant biography recently, and its an interesting implant, on the view that we have an impact on the view we have in society. So now we will go to the 2017 survey, which is the organizing principle for a group of interviews. We arrange them chronologically, we put them in order of how they fared in our survey so lets look at the top five. One force the modern president s was he had a good. Ronald reagan is the only one that made it into the top ten. Next up george w. Bush, 20th spot it will be interesting when we do the next survey at the end of the trump presidency, whether george h. W. Bush moves up not or not. Hes passed away. That has an impact, because historians are people too. It will be interesting to see if it affects his ratings. Bill clinton we just talked about. 15th place. George w. Bush, 33rd. The first time we had him, which is after he left office, he was one point lower, we have another president he moved up one, he is pretty close to the bottom ten, and certainly, the reaction to 9 11 is important part but the economic crisis, the wars ensued after 9 11, and his response to hurricane katrina, are things over time will see how historians rate his presidency. Finally, barack obama his debut in the survey, he came in 12th place. Not a bad place to start. Just a couple more of these. Here are the top five in 2017. Dwight eisenhower has we talked about before making into the top five the first time. Theodore roosevelt, in fourth place. In the survey. That is fairly common throughout not only ours, but other surveys that were done. You wont be surprised to know that the next one in line is Franklin Roosevelt, whos frequently in the number one two or three. Fdr biography, which we chose to highlight in our book, is no ordinary time. Anybody read that . Its a terrific one. The one on theodore roosevelt, is called wilderness warriors. Its about his role as a conservation president. For george washington, he won the Pulitzer Prize for this. George washington came in second place. His low score, and i referenced this before, is 13th place among the president s. As he pursued equal justice for. All im sure many of you have been down to mount vernon. They have been doing a great job over the last couple of decades of how the slaves have that have contributed to mount vernon. The and finally, number one in our service survey, no surprise, he seems to be number one in every survey, is Abraham Lincoln. He received 907 points, at a possible thousand. Hes ranked one two in almost all of them, his lowest score is fourth place. And that is on relations with congress. Harold hoser, is our featured biography. Hes written 53 books about our 16th president. The one that we chose is a snapshot in time. Its chapter which you will find about what Abraham Lincoln did between election day and march when he was sworn in how he organized himself to get to washington which had only been in for a short time. As a one term congressman and there is a wonderful human story in this book. We did nothing to help president s financially, so he had to finance his way to washington he had a yard sale in springfield illinois to sell his belongings. He could not bear to sell the family dog, so he gave it away. So lets do the fun ones, bottom five. 39th place, john tyler. They say his contribution, that he declared himself president. And it was not establish yet in the constitution. He got some low scores. His high score was 28 in international relations. Next one warren hearting. We heard a lot about warren hearting in the last few years. He was quite an ardent letter writer nudge john dean who knows a few things about president ial scandals. He got a hold of hardings paper, his papers and he had a second look at him. The historians in the survey gave him only 360 points out of 1000. His highest, 33 was an equal justice for all. That at a category keeps coming back. We are having an important conversation in this country about race relations, and demographics and disappears in these and this appears in these ratings. Okay next one oh i skipped this one yeah 41 franklin pierce. He got 315 points. And a terrific story in there, about the difficulty of him coming to washington. If you never heard it, they had lost two of their three sons and a very young age. Their third son was on the train with them, as they were making their way, after winning the election to washington. The train had a horrific accident, and the sun was thrown from the train and killed. The president elect, carried his dead sons body back to the train. His wife barely ever recovered from it, and spent most of the administration on the main floor, writing letters to her dead son. He had a difficult time organizing his cabinet, plus we are on the march to war. Challenging time for him. Ok Andrew Johnson, 42nd at the 43 weve measured. His highest point, was 37th plate its in Economic Management. 275 points out of a possible thousand. Here we go dead last, guess what is yet james buchanan. Im a pennsylvanian so this one pains me a little bit. He is so bad, that his 30 points below Andrew Johnson, and all of these folks, are below harrison who died after one month in office, so think about that. It is a bit of a negative presidency if you think about it. The buchanan biography, i love the name of it. Worst period, president period ever. So theres lots left, for all of these ratings on our side that we created, which is cspan. Org slash the president s. You will find a complete video, and interviews. That we use for chapters of the book. Lots more about their individual ratings and categories. We also have links to historic facts. So if youre reading the book, and you dont know about a particular war, or economic panic. We have a link and if you want to learn more you have an easy opportunity to do that. One last note, we did not rate the incumbent. We hope that all of you, will be thinking about what we want out of a leader, who are put to these ten attributes. Judging the democrats who are vying for it, and the person in office. So what do i suspect that the person who leads this country. With that i will turn over to this terrific panel here are the two president s that are being feature today, Andrew Johnson who i mentioned before. His highest category, sorry his lowest, relations with congress. He is in 43rd spot. As i mentioned 275 out of 1000. James garfield, this is so interesting because he was an officer six and a half months, yes he writes high by comparison. His highest category is pursuit of equal justice for all, 20th place amongst the president s, and lows Category International relations. He came into the office with no experience. Hes in 36 there. Score 481 out of the thousand. Double what Andrew Johnson got. Again he was only an officer six and a half months. Lots to talk about. Why these ratings have happened. With that thank you for learning more about our book learning about the president s and i will turn over to the panel. Can great presentation thank you i just want to get the conversation going i want to hear from all of you. We have to microphone set up. When i go to questions i will ask you to please stand. Let me introduce our panel again. To my right can ackerman. We as a writer can has altered five major books. Including dark horse. The surprise election and political murder. Of james a garfield. Garfield is 29th on the survey. David stewart to his right, spent many years as a trial and appellate lawyer, the u. S. Senate and u. S. Supreme court. Before becoming a bestselling writer and historical fiction. His writings have explored the constitution, and the treason trial of aaron burr. The fight for lincolns legacy. And finally we are joined by brian lamb. Ceo and chairman of cspan. His interviews have been the basis of nine books. Brian has visited, every president ial grave site, as well as every Vice President ial grave site in the country, and we will have to ask him about that in the course of this interview. Please join me in welcoming our panel. First question for historians youve also written about Abraham Lincoln and garfield, you have a day job as a practicing low lawyer, what this pushes you to write about president s in general. I have been writing history since the 19 eighties, what truman and James Garfield, when i was a young lawyer in washington i was working for the Senate Governmental affairs committee. As a Junior Lawyer i was assigned to work on a bill that became a Civil Service reform act, that was the project that was put on my my desk. After working on that bill every speech, every memo every report started with almost the exact same sentence. This is the most important update, since president James Garfield was shot by a disappointed officer, in 1881. I must have written that sentence over hundred times. And i seemed it was true. Since some years later, i started researching and i had an idea for a book, trait about a political and convention. Back when it was the super bowl of politics. Thats when the parties came together, all the factions they picked it out and had picked a nominee from their. We havent had a solid one since the 18 fifties. But these a one point were the great events. James garfield was not a nominee he was not a candidate he came to the convention as the Campaign Manager of somebody else he ends up getting nominated. In order to get him elected, to soothe this reach within the party a deal was made at that convention where he would be the nominee who is nominated with the support of james blamed and his faction. He was a follower of the opposite faction. Somebody named Chester Allen arthur. That deal created a chain of events, the stalemate from the convention carried over into his presidency. And resulted in him being shot in the back. And that connection to me made a good story. And thats what got me started. Great now alaska another question but david i want to ask you the same question, you are not a practicing lawyer anymore but what was your push to historian and what youve written about youve written about Thomas Jefferson and madison. My first book is about the constitution and i always loved history because the best stories are there. Fiction writers come up with Great Stories are a fiction and try to do that but we really cant be real life for its saintliness. And i will allude to our current situation. And after running about the constitution, i was looking for another occasion where the constitution mattered. Where it made a difference and i thought the impeachment trial of johnson after the civil war, the nations what it would Stay Together whether we would have a second civil war, and it would turn on how the constitution was applied in the impeachment proceeding. It was an event that riveted the nation for a long time. It was a hard look at some level because of entry johnson. He is not a very sweet guy was not a sweet guy, a difficult person to live with us a historian and he has earned his spot in the number 42. So i had to find other people to root for. But it has proved to be and enduring interest. I will ask you both this question and please feel free to weigh in here brian. What do you think a survey of the president s, in this book what do you think its valuable . Well to me reading the survey over very quickly over the last few days, and preparing to be here today, i thought it was very striking when it tells you about the country and our history and the pattern that jumped at me when i saw it was the way the modern president s are treated the 12 president s who served since world war ii. 12 out of 43. That is barely one in four. Those are representative very heavily at the top tier. Five out of the top ten, our modern president s. Seven out of the top 15, our modern president s. With that in our country were so lucky, that we had such great people last few years. But there they were. But when i first saw, that i wondered whether it was just a biased builtin that we teach you are overestimate, or exaggerate the good no bad about people from a lifetime, people you get to know by seeing them on tv every day, but thinking about it it really represents something more. It represented how the presidency has changed. That modern president s are in fact more consequential than earlier president s in the sense. None of the 32 president s, who served before the post world war era, ever had to deal with thermal nuclear war, and the prospect of millions of people be killed by a Nuclear Exchange in a couple of hours. None of them had to deal