Florence Kling Harding once said she had only one real hobby and that was Warren Harding. She was a significant force in her husbands presidency and adept at handling the media. Despite hardships, scandals, her husbands infidelities and his death in office as well as her own poor health, Florence Harding set many precedents that would help define the role of the modern first lady. Good evening. And welcome to cspans series first ladies influence image. Tonight, were going to be telling you the story of Florence Harding, the first lady that one of our guests said has been neglected and derided by throughout history. But in her time, the hardings came in as very popular people. Were going to learn more about the trajectory of her time and her husbands time in office and her interesting story that not many people know today. Let me introduce you to our two guests. Katherine sibley is a history professor at st. Josephs college in philadelphia. Shes a biographer of the first lady. Her book is called first lady Florence Harding behind the tragedy and the controversy. Thank you for being here. David pietrusza is a guest as well tonight. President ial historian and the author of many books including 1920 the year of the six president s. And thats really where i want to start tonight because we think of Warren Harding and we think of teapot dome and the other scandals of his presidency. But in 1920, when he came into office. It was in a landslide. Sixty percent of the popular vote, 404 Electoral College votes. So, set the stage for what brought these people into office and what the mood of the country was. The mood of the country is really bad. And its a year when just about any republican can win. And the trick is to get to the nomination. Tr was supposed to be the nominee. They had the big split in 1912, the progressives are still in tatters. Thats patched up. Unfortunately, tr died in his sleep in january 1919. There are some people who want to fill the bill, leonard wood, who remembers him . Frank louden, the governor of illinois. I cant even remember how to pronounce his name correctly. Im always being corrected on it. Hiram johnson, whos just too irascible to reach out forward, which leads you to actually naturally the fourth man, the available man is andrew sinclair, one of his biographer said. Warren Gamaliel Harding because hes not too hot, hot too cold, not too interventionist, not too much of anything except hes really handsome. Hes a fairly good speaker. Hes been in the National Stage at the 1916 republican convention. He nominated taft in 1912. So, he is the alternative and in that year, the alternative to wilsonism wins. Well, the hardingstrajectory personal trajectory came from small town, marion, ohio, where there were the publishers in newspaper. Give us their short history of publishing a newspaper to national politics. So, the marion star was a very small paper when harding acquired it and he made it into a much more successful paper over time. Thanks to the efforts of his wife, florence. Now, Florence Harding and he will talk later about how they met. But for the point of getting to the discussion of how they got to 1920, she was a key element here. So, what happens is they are working in the newspaper and its going very well, but its a little dull for her and shed like to see him get involved in some other things. So he does go on the chautauqua circuit and as youve said, he was a very good speaker. He did an Alexander Hamilton oration. He was quite successful. And she thought, you know, he could go for bigger things, so he did. He ran for state senate. He was elected two times in ohio, tried to go further than that with lieutenant governor. Later ran for governor, it was not successful, but just as youve said he was positioned, he was visible in ohio and by the time of 19 by the time of 1913 when theres a new law in this country which allows senators for the first time to be elected popularly, hes positioned to run. And in 1914, hes elected to the senate in ohio for ohio, i should say. And he thus becomes the first popular elected senator from that state and the first senator actually to become president as a sitting senator and, of course, florence, his wife is right there alongside him. And her role is quite significant in developing this trajectory. We could talk more about that. Well, you write in your book on 1920 that he was himself unconvinced about his viability as a candidate. Even among his fellow Congressional Republicans his support was negligible at the outset. There was a matter of his health and ultimately, he did die early. And then there was carrie, Carrie Philips and well learn more about her. Then there was nan and nans baby and there were other women as well, you write Warren Hardings personal life was quite a mess. So, do people look the other way in these days for candidates . In those days . Yes. I think there are a lot of things which were not talked about. Scandal of public figures was not written about. It unless there was a divorce case, unless something went into the courts. The papers would not touch it and something thats never occurred to me until now. Hes a newspaper man. Maybe hes part of that club and theyre not going to write about it. That may work very much in his favor. But you also see in that era that there are other infidelities going on. There is mr. Weeks, who he appoints the cabinet. He has a mistress. There is certainly some issues about Woodrow Wilson, maybe in the bahamas or bermuda rather before he is president. There is the famous incident of Alice Roosevelt longworth and her child, deborah or deborah which is named actually or she wanted to name it deborah. It becomes pauline, but that is the illegitimate daughter of senator william e. Borah, a very famous guy at that time. And then Franklin Roosevelt cheating on Eleanor Roosevelt in 1917. So, the rich have their prerogatives and they take them. One of our viewers on facebook asks, how did mrs. Harding respond to the rumors of hardings wandering eyes . Yes, its a great question. And i didnt i think its kind of fun i think were going to have a little bit of a debate about some of these relationships, this extramarital relationships that warren g. Harding had. He did have this affair with Carrie Phillips, who was woman, they met early on old friends, they were both a couple phillipses and the hardings who all were related as a in a connected way in ohio. And what happens over time is that warren falls in love with with carrie. And florence eventually finds out about this. So, sometime between 1905 when florence gets sick for the first time in 1911, she discovers this affair. And they were still friends and they were still vacationing together and the the caller asks how was this happening and how did florence react to this. Well, not very happily. And in fact, she asks him to consider a divorce, but warren refused. He knew very much that he needed her partly for the reasons that i alluded to before for his career and in other ways. So he agreed to kind of downplay this affair and in fact, i think, i believe he committed to sort of ending it but, in fact, he did not as it turns out. And so, such as by 1920 as he is running for president , it is a bit of an embarrassment. Its been on and off. It hasnt been a very active affair for some years at that point but there are flaring moments of it that came up and down. And because of that, in the end, she is she is essentially bought off by members of the Republican Party and others who come up with funds to kind of get her out of the way, and no, florence was not happy about this at all. And i think there are some wonderful quotes weve read in her diary to get back to this wonderful question where she expresses how the difficulty of dealing with an unfaithful husband like hers was. We have one of her diary quotes, but how much of a diarist was she . How much is preserved . You know, its a very interesting question. Her diary is not very reliable as far as the dates, but i believe it is an authentic version of her thoughts. It was a small book that was discovered about, gosh, 15 years ago in a barn in ohio and its a list of nostrums, recipes, remembrances by her and these statements that youre going to share with our audience. And so, from what i can tell, there is a very clear sense of her own views and beliefs in there. I think its credible, but its not extensive and its not dated. So its a little bit we have to we have to take that into account when we read it. Its barely a formal diary. I think its like in a date book or calendar or something. Exactly. Yes. Its catch as catch can. Theres going to be huge gaps in it, but it seems to be real. Yes. Well, one quote that we will share to capture her thinking about this is this one. To sanction the inequity of man but demand purity of woman has become an attitude of society. The happy woman is not one who was married the best on earth but the one who is philosophical enough to make the best of what she got. So did she make the best of Warren Harding . I think she did. I really do. And in fact because she was someone who saw the potential in him. She went after him. Yes. She she she saw that he could be someone who could rise to a higher position with her strength, with her backing and i know that sometimes we hear she made him or she made him president and i think thats too thats too simple, i mean, that takes away from his own abilities which i think were not not in absolutely something not there how shall i put this. They were something that could be reckoned with. Absolutely, he wasnt just a pretty face and a senatoriallooking man. But shes certainly had a key role in pushing him into the place where he got to be. Steve murdock ph on twitter asked, wouldnt his newspaper enemies take shot shots at harding and his infidelities . One newspaper person who did was his own fatherinlaw. N yes. Explain the story of amos kling and their relationship and why he would, in fact, in his newspaper criticize his soninlaw. Yes. In fact, she well, this is a long story. Ill try to make it quick. Kling doesnt have a newspaper. No, thats right. Hes a banker. Hes a businessman. But he ultimately doesnt he buy a competing newspaper . Not that not that i know of, no. I dont believe thats true. But i think that maybe what the caller is getting to is that he actually helped to fund an opponent of harding when harding ran for senator. And. Yes. He funded another republican newspaper in the town to siphon business away from, but, say, call him a newspaper person would would be, no, hes the banker. Hes the banker behind the newspaper. Right, right. Hes the banker and hes the fatherinlaw and he likes being banker a lot more. And there was there was a long history. He didnt like the i know were going to talk later about the history of florences first marriage, which was a kind of a sad chapter in her life, but he did not like her first husband. He did not like her second husband. They only really got reconciled later when amos his first wife had died, the mother of florence at that time and he then decided that, well, he would make some rapprochement with her and they went on vacations together and it came back together, but it was a very difficult relationship for, you know, the first thirty plus years. Seven well, of their life, but the first seven years of the harding marriage there was like nothing. Yes, it was difficult time. David pietrusza, talk about hardings oratory and how well he was known for it and how it make him as a national personality. Were going to begin our audio and visual part of this program with an audio clip of Warren Harding in one of his speeches. And then youll learn about the, front porch campaign, which is the way that they decided unlike their opponent james cox was traveling around the country to conduct their campaign from marion, ohio. Lets watch. Americas present need is not heroics, but healing; not nostrums, but normalcy; not revolution, but restoration; not agitation, but adjustment; not surgery, but serenity; not the dramatic, but the dispassionate; not experiment, but equipoise; not submergence in internationality, but sustainment in triumphant nationality. All the action took place on this very porch here. Now, usually during speeches, warren would stand in the middle here on the steps, the top step, florence right beside him. And they would wave to the crowd to or parading down mt. Vernon avenue toward his house. But this was a perfect backdrop for the campaign, not only did it show the human side of the hardings, the fact that they did not live in a mansion. They lived in a very normal house like most of the folks coming to see him speak, they wanted to feature this town as well. Warren himself often said that this campaign was taking main street to the white house. And florence was very much a part of this message. She was a very visible part of this campaign. She was always near him on the front porch when he was speaking. She gave interviews herself to magazines, especially womens magazines. She alternated between being the savvy politician to being the homebody, the wife, the caretaker of the candidate, so she knew how politics worked. She knew the different sides of her that would have to be portrayed as part of this campaign in order to make his campaign successful for him. She is not afraid to wade into a crowd. Shes not hanging back. And she is in the line shaking hands along with the president tobe. And going through hundreds, if not thousands of people standing there as long as it will take to shake the hands and greet people. So, we see a Florence Harding who knows how her husband is going to get to the white house, through the votes. Its very important politically, but she absolutely believes in the people of the united states. She seems as good or better politician than a husband. Yes, absolutely. She is more out there, i say, with her strength. He gets exhausted in some of these encounters. He pushes on, but she continues. And when we think about how ill she was back and forth with her illness and nephrites, the kidney ailment, its really pretty astounding. I mean, she would recover from days like that. It would take her sometimes 48 hours with her hands sore and swollen from shaking so many hands, thousands of hands but she had this strength. She was determined to do what she wanted to be accessible. She wanted to be a people person, i guess you could say. I want to tell our viewers that we welcome your participation. Were already getting comments as you can see on facebook and twitter and you are welcome to join that conversation. The cspan Facebook Page is easy to follow and theres a conversation underway. And twitter, two ways you can be involved. You can use their hashtag firstladies or our at firstladies address. Well be looking both of those and incorporating your comments into the program. Here are the phone lines. If you live in the eastern or central time zones 2025853880. If you live in the mountain or pacific time zones 2025853881 and well get to those calls in just a couple of minutes. You cant talk about the 1920 campaign without talking about harry daugherty. Who was he . I think its daugherty, daugherty. Daugherty, thank you. And hes the campaign manager. Hes the man behind the throne especially the way he tells it. He elevates his influence and power a great deal in the telling of the story and since the other two people are dead very quickly, he gets to tell it far longer. And he does help harding out. But you also see correspondence from harding where hes telling harry in 1918, you think just because i listen to the guff that people tell me that i swallow it all, well, i dont, ok . And i know exactly whats going on. And harding is in fact an incredibly savvy politician. He is good. Hes an excellent people person. People like him. Even his enemies like him. He just exudes human kindness and this is something which is quite often overlooked about him. And he said, he is a genuinely kind and if you shove out certain aspects of his life, a good person. Hes very lovable, i think. He pulls, but daugherty is a kind of run of the mill ohio politician. Hes been in the General Assembly and he has run for governor, attorney general, all sorts of things but hes a little too shady to make the trip himself. He gets behind harding. He runs across him few times most particularly in florida when he says, i found them. He was sunning himself like turtle on a log and i pushed him off into it. Now, there are a lot of factors. Now, did florence make him, did daugherty make him, did harding make himself . And john dean in his biography of harding makes the point that hardings protestations of inadequacy that humbleness is not necessarily an act, but that harding from the very beginnings, hes a very sharp guy. His academic career is good. He learns things very quickly. Hes giving speeches at the age of four. And so, hes good early and he knows that people sometimes get jealous of people who are good. But wouldnt you also agree though that he didnt necessarily want to be president , did he . I dont think so and certainly not with the Carrie Phillips thing hanging over his head in 1920. Yes. He enjoyed being in the senate and it was his friends wanted him to be, they loved him and they he was popular but he really didnt but it just seemed like over time increasingly there was urgings on him and also the situation as i understand it back in ohio didnt look good for him to be reelected. My theory is that and in the big, long letter which he sends to Carrie Phillips regarding the blackmail. How did she try to blackmail him . She had the letters. That was not the only letter she hung on to. There were approximately 98 of them which she had. Torrid love letters . Yes. Not all torrid love letters, but a lot of them were. And i wont endeavor to quote them at all. I will say this, often in reading history and stuff. People skip over to the dirty parts. Skip the dirty parts in reading these and read the rest of these. Hes a very good writer. Yes. Hes very good. And theres a certain charm and skill to his language skills, but shes got the goods of him. This is the smoking gun. This is the blue dress to the nth degree, ok . And shes got it. And she and her husband in 1920 bec