The Southern Oral History Program at the university of north carolina, chapel hill. I think i know that your parents drove you to the college in the fall of 57. Yes they did. What did you discover here at Bennett College . It was a big day for me, but for the whole community. I came from someplace. I didnt just show up. I came being supported by the whole community. They prayed for me a church. They gave me a few pennies here and there since we did not have a lot of money. I had a little scholarship. I had taken the sats there. I had done well enough to get a scholarship money and i was going to work a little bit. There was always that, let me give you a few pennies. It was by the good wishes of the community. I had never been to Bennett College before. I had never been to greensboro before. I arrived here to have ourselves just sort of swallowed up. My parents and me and everyone. A lot of parents and a lot of students all being deposited by parents. It was a lonely feeling when they said goodbye and left. It was very lonely. Tell me about some of the people who would become important to you on the campus. Fellow step and students. As my parents were getting me situated in my room, there was someone bringing their daughter. She was roslyn smith. She was being deposited from West Virginia and her mom met my mom. They talked. Her mother told my mom, they talked and told each other so much, i will never know. Her mother had other children in college at the same time. So she immediately told roslyn that she would not be going to come home. There would be no money to bring our home except at christmas time and the summertime. My mom told mrs. Smith that we lived a few miles up the road and they would be driving back to see me often and i could come home quite often. I could come home for thanksgiving. Roslyn could come home with me. Anytime. So mrs. Smith and mrs. Alexander sort of bonded that day and they exchanged children. My mother be cain roslyn surrogate mom and roslyns mom sort of became my mom. Although it would take a long time before i got to West Virginia to meet roslyns mom. She went home with me all four years. My very best friend to this day is robin smith. Shes actually living in greensboro. She retired here some ten years ago from new york where she had been working in social work. When she retired, she came back to greensboro. I said why did you come back to greensboro . Did bennett have anything to do with it . She came to cranes borough and when i took the job here, i was delighted she was here. She was, i think as i understand, part of campus. She studied sociology. She studied sociology and political science. I was doing english and theater. Tell me about the role of an english student and theater student in the 19 fifties. Oh my goodness, it was wonderful. My english professor we was well i had several, but doctor jared was the man who taught me literature. What a wonderful man. What a brilliant man. All of my faculty were. Dr. Jarrett was hard. He was tough. He exacted absolute perfection and we were arrogant enough to think we could give it to him. He really had us charmed into thinking that we could write anything. That we could articulate any idea. He was just a wonderful teacher. He empowered us a great deal. No nonsense though. I was very much engaged with him. He would walk on campus and say, miss alexander, im going to pick up a book. I would say Literary History of england . He would say yes he was such a shock about how area tight he was. We reveled in it. He was also a very handsome man and smoked a pipe. He was so eloquent. We all sort of drooled after doctor jared, but in a nice way. We were so proud to say we were his students. Then there was doctor crawford who taught us grammar. He was less, how should i say this . I dont want to say he was less polished, but he was less polished. Thats a fact. What he was a terror. He taught us grammar and he would have us act as centers. You can make us crossed birds and diagram sentences. He was top. I dont think i was one of his favorite students. I was treated kindly by him because i could diagram a sentence. He was serious. He was just a serious man, so he wasnt quite like doctor jared. Then, in theater, we had fred allen e. D. Who had come to us from howard. He was a terrific director. We got him married. We thought he needed to be married so we selected the lady on the campus that we thought he ought to be married to. We collected money and bought her flowers and sent her flowers and said they were from him. But we told him, we told him. We took this lady these flowers and you should follow up. We put your name on them. Whats really funny is they got married. We almost a credit for that. It was wonderful. I lived in the dorm. We were very proud to be bennett girls. Because we were taught every day that we were as good as anybody in the world. And better than a lot of people in the world. We had a responsibility to help those who were not as fortunate as we were. That there was something in life that required us to be as good as we could be and to give back to the communities from which we came. It was that sense that led us to be cognizant of what was happening in the community. Helping people to get registered to vote. Understanding the importance of registering to vote and getting people to do that. Taking ourselves into the community to be helpful. To help people in the ways that we could. Things like food drives. The whole sense and to talk about the community. Its very important what im saying, not to you so much. As i reflect on it, i think its important they taught us these things because i talk of having been happy growing up as a youngster. What i meant is i felt safe. Happiness was somehow connected to being safe. But i can remind you that, in that time, the whole southern terrain was dotted with white only signs. With signs that said color its or knee grows. Signs that were reminders that there were places that you couldnt go and places you ought not to go if you wanted to be safe. Being safe was a part of being happy. When you were cocooned and safety safety. Thats what this campus was. Its a place where we knew we were taken care of. We were asked to give all we could give in a classes, but we also knew that we were special. That is why it was inevitable that we entered into the cities. We knew they were wrong, you see. You cant have anyone inside the gates being taught how they could be the best of everybody and anybody. Then, walk out the gate and be told you cant sit here. I think its very important to know that will worth became an ideal. You cant sit down for a coke. You could go into woolworths. Well worth was not closed to black patronage at all. You could go into woolworth and buy anything that they sold if you had money. You just could not sit down to get a sandwich at the lunch counter. It was the lunch counter we. You could not sit down to eat. That stood in stark contrast to all the things that we had going on here at bennett where we dressed for dinner in the evenings and sat with tablecloths. We learned which fork to use and how. We went downtown wearing hats and gloves and we were bennett ladies. You can see how it was such a jarring thing to be told well, bennett lady, guess what . You cant sit there and have a cherry coke. There were things that got us there was a this ease. It was uncomfortable. One cannot square those two things. Through your first couple of years of college its a very encompassing and experience when youre interested in youre classes. What interested you give to these what questions . Little rock was the first desegregation of the local greensboro schools is happening. Early loss to nuance looking through the courts filed by people like doctor seconds to try to break down barriers of segregation in the city. How much of that was a part of your what you gave your attention to . There were lots of other things they were keeping you out. Theyre sure were. But i told you that a part of bennett was always that the education had been it was to prepare you to put make a contribution to the world. To be reconnected into your community. We might classmates had experiences before we got here. Even i didnt come here, sort of from mars, and everything was great and we dont have a sense that there could be clashes. We all knew about those things. I grew up here knowing about such things. My mother word all the time about what would happen. What i meant when i said we were safe is exactly that. A storm is going on around us. We are aware of the storm, what we can also feel safe in here. Thats what i meant when i said safety was a very important part of how. I look back, i think i was healthy. A healthy ego. A healthy psyche growing up. I dont think it damage to me in any way. I might be wrong, but i dont think i grew up with that. My mother was wise and would talk about these things to us precisely so they wouldnt scare us so much more that we would know how to live with them. My mother would tell us, she did not want us to hate white people. My mother had this rule. She would not let us say they when talking about white people. So one day she took a piece of chalk and row ty h. Why. She erased the tee and the why and it was written he. You tell me what he did and you name her and we will deal with that. But you will not ever speak of all white people as bad or having bad intentions. We understood that. We couldnt afford to be shielded from what was happening in the world. Im just always grateful that my parents taught us, i think, the best way to negotiate it. She told my son, i have one son, and hes always so pleased to remind me that when he was home talking to his grandma, he told her something about some white people doing something. He said grandma, why did you let them do that . Why do you let them call you mary . She says, mike, there is good as they know how to be. What are you going to do with that . They are as good as they know how to be. So there was a way that she my mother allowed us to have an ego about who we were and she would not let anyone damage that. We were just told she told mike they are as good as they know how to be. To come back to your question. Here we had doctor edmunds, we had roslyn, we had a life out there. They talk about issues. We talked an hour classes about what was happening in the world. We did not pretend that the world wasnt out there. I think you missed dr. King s appearance on campus and 58. Is that correct . Yes. 59, especially the fall of 59 of course, the momentum is gathering and will soon lead to protests and action. What do you recall about the fall of 59 . People on this campus were talking very actively and thinking very hard about this question as you are saying. It really started my classmates when sociology classes. That group. Gloria brown. They were the ones who were engaging in an intense way. They would come back to the dorms and tell us what was happening. As i say, roslyn was my best friend. We knew what was going on. You start as a theoretical. How do we conduct ourselves in the world if that is the case . What would happen if we boycotted . What would happen how can these barriers be torn down . These were questions that were being asked. There have been sedans before. Greensboro was it was not something that had never happened before. There had been protests before. There had been marches before. Bennett girls had been engaged with protesting the showing of the film birth of the nation. Its a pretty ugly film. Youve done Voter Registration. We did Voter Registration. I cant tell you exactly and precisely what moment that was a great epiphany and we did things. What i end up knowing was that students were planning and talking about a boycott. Going downtown and picketing what would happen if they picketed. Then it went from picketing to what would happen if we sat down at the lunch counters . These were conversations that were being talked about. Students talked about training and non violence. That is exactly thats a route people dont often remember. Our faculty talked about what does it mean to be nonviolent . We remember king was talking about nonviolence. What does it mean to be nonviolent . If someone hits you, you hit them back. How do you conduct yourselves . Is it dangerous when it happens . It was in the air and we were here on the campus and we talked about those things. Do you think you described and named a group of women were very much active in these kinds of conversations on campus and friends of yours. Do you think that, among those women, there is a sense that they were i will put it this way. To what extent would they think they ought to be placed how much should they be credited for the full realization of that impulse here in the Community Among students and now reaching across the amt . That opened the door to direct action protests. Where they credited an up . They would say not. Two years ago, for the 50th anniversary of the citizens, i was here as a new provost. I remember those days so i called a group of them to come back and talk about that. So we had a retrospective when michael came, surely came, roslyn smith came. Linda brown was here. We were in the chapel and we talked about that. They would say no. Heres how they talk about it. They say that they indeed did not argue with the fact that the four young men at amt with the first to sit in. They say that it was not spontaneous. That it had come and born of a plan that had been carefully considered and deliberated beginning here on bennetts campus with the girls. They had in fact been happily considering it. Doctor jared said to them, you girls should not get engaged in doing that alone because girls must be protected. So they were encouraged to invite the boys to sit with them and plan the sudden. Were talking about something that could be very dangerous. Nobody asked their parents. Our parents did not send us down here to go do that. You hear me . They would not have been happy. Some of them might have. My classmates have wonderful stories about their lives. A pair of pants had been run out of mississippi because of her dads political actions. These young woman werent babes in the woods. My own father had had his own problems. Shirley just can figure out, no one had asked her to sit in the back of a bus or anything. So we all came with a very deep feeling that that is wrong. We knew that. So they wanted to correct it. To be educated and not do anything about it, your education would not mean very much. These girls would tell you that they worked very hard. They discussed everything. They can tell you that dr. Player, our president , was involved as well. Doctor player was told and said she couldnt tell us not to engage in that. She did point out that it would be a sort of folly to start the action of the citizens before the christmas vacation. If you started it at thanksgiving, for instance, and everybody says ive been politically active but i have to go home now and i will come back after vacation. She cautioned them to wait and they did. Then they told all of us when they came back that they were all ready to start. They came back and on february 1st the young men sat down. When i ask michael gwen where were you on that day . I wasnt will worth. Why were you there . She says because we had to go buy something. We knew how to do it. We were trained that if you did not buy something, you could be thrown out. So we go into buy something and she was standing waiting. It was a plan that had been created here on the campus. So the girls think that they did not get enough credit. That is what they would think. Many other students take places at the lunch counter. There were carpools and carefully assigned rotating shifts. You sat there sat down there too. Yes i did. Beside linda brown. Thats right. Can you take us back and kind of describe the experience you had and the feelings generated and what you saw around you . I think we might have been young, because honestly, i felt felt proud. I dont think my mother ever felt maybe she felt proud, but i dont think that was her main feeling. I think she was terrified. I have a child. I think that, as a mother, i would be afraid. But i will tell you that i was proud to sit there. I was very proud. I will tell you something else. I never ever understood the hatred that came. It was absolutely surprising because i did not understand why people would glare at us with such hatred. Now was a little unnerving. But, i was basically very proud to have done that. Did your parents have any words of guidance for you or comment . No. Interesting enough, my parents never talked to me about that very much. My mom was never very quiet, but my mother did not talk about that very much. I think i understand why. I think my mom didnt want to say i wish you hand done it. I think my mom regretted the world as it was. That it had to be done. But i dont think my mom was elated that i went. I think my mom would have forgiven me if i had called in sick. I dont think she would have been too upset if i had called in sick. But she never let me know, from her own words, what she felt. She was just quiet. It will be interesting if you could say a few words about her because, as youve already said, she made clear and unmistakable ways excuse me. We will come back after a short break. I want to ask a little bit for your thoughts and perspective on doctor player and her role here at Bennett College. And then the leadership at a t. Institutions have separate histories and different relations to the state of north carolina. Talk a little bit about black leadership, educational leadership, in that era and the force is active upon that leadership. What do you want me to say about that . Let me tell you a little bit about doctor player first. She was a big woman. I dont mean in stature, physical stature, i mean in the shadow she cast over the campus when she walked. She was quiet. Shes very quiet and very dignified woman. We all believed, not i, we all believed that she was profoundly committed to making bennett women into women who could stand in the world. Strong women with a commitment to social justice. I dont mean just to be in good being good english teachers or matt teachers or physicists. I mean undergirding all of that with a profound sense of social justice. She talked about that, but quietly, in her philosophy. She talked about the fact that education was no good if you do not use it to correct wrongs in society. She did not make fiery speeches about that. She wasnt a fiery speech person because she was very quietly committed and you knew, when you were in her presence, that it was not just nonsense that she was talking. She really believed and lived what she talked about. Doctor player was a very brave woman. If she cared about anybody, she cared about the legacy she would pass on to us at Bennett College. She was an incredible woman. Thats doctor player. I dont know very much about the leadership at a t, but i do know that whatever is said and written about the movement here as it played itself out in greensboro, Bennett College women were involved in from the