Im head of Government Relations and Public Policy at wells fargo and im pleased to be here with you today. Were pleased to serve for the 8th year as a charter sponsor of the book festival and even prouder to watch it grow into the incredibly popular and impactful event it has become. I wouldnt be surprised [ applause ] thank you. I wouldnt be surprised to see us move the needle on some best seller lists today. But its even more important to keep the book festival a free event that serves the community. Its real purpose is literacy which leads to learning and opportunity which helps our goal in succeeding. Learning to love books is what the book festival is all about. In this session, ron chernow will describe his biography and certain other popular founding fathers. One thing i learned from the story of president grant is how people can evolve and through persistence and hard work, acknowledge and overcome their imperfections. Its an incredible story that reminded me that a person can learn from their mistakes and reach their potential. Its my privilege to introduce the Deputy Director at the library of congress and our session moderator, colleen shogan. Thank you. Thank you. [ applause ] welcome to the 18th annual National Book festival. Im pleased to be joined on stage by ron chernow. Ron is an Award Winning journalist, historian and biographer. Hes won the Pulitzer Prize and the National Book award for nonfiction. In 2015 he won the National Humanities medal. His book on Alexander Hamilton was the inspiration for the musical for which ron worked as a historical consultant. The library is honored to have you join us today at the National Book festival. [ applause ] its worth noting that our cochair of the festival was supposed to conduct this interview today but due to scheduling changes because of senator mccains funeral, he was unable to do so. But i have davids questions here today and i just happen to be a big admirer of president grant and rons books. I think were going to have a fantastic time here today at the book festival. Before we talk about grant, we need to ask a question about Alexander Hamilton. Could we not . Who is he . Who is he . When Linmanuel Miranda first approached you and said he wanted to create a hiphop musical based upon your book, what was your reaction, and did you ever think it would become a cultural phenomenon. Very often people say to me, when you were writing the biography did you have any idea that it would be turned into a hiphop musical. And i think to myself, i think the question answers itself. [ laughter ] when i first met Linmanuel Miranda, he was starring in his first musical and he asked me on the spot to be the historical adviser to this as yet not existent show. So i laughed and said to him, you want me to tell you when something is wrong . And he said, yes, i want the historians to take this seriously, which was music to my ears. And i was a little bit skeptical, but i was quite intrigued. And i thought nothing could be more delightful than to watch the evolution of a broadway musical. The offer to be on the other side of the flood lights was irresistible. It was far, far beyond anything that i could have anticipated. Well move on to grant which youve written the definitive biography of grant. I have to start with a queue question. Who is buried in grants tomb . I found that approximately half the people whom i told i was working on grant shot back, who is buried in grants tomb . Naturally i got very interested in the origin of the question. I traced it back to groucho marx. He wanted to ask every contestant that every contestant could answer. And that question was, who is buried in grants tomb. Half of the guests got it wrong. The line has become part of the Popular Culture . Where was grant born, where were the conditions of his upbringing, what was his family like. He was born in ohio. He grew up in a series of small towns in southwest ohio. And Point Pleasant was right on the ohio river. The significance of that was that it separated the free state of ohio from the slaveowning state of kentucky. In fact on winter evenings, the ohio would freeze over and fugitive slaves would sprint to freedom. Important in terms of thinking about grant later, he grew up straddling the world of both north and south and understand both of their cultures. Came from a fairly welltodo family. And his father was really the bane of life. The father was a pushy character and then grant went to west point because grant wanted to go to west point, no, he did not. But his father wanted him to go. And his father saw west point as a free form of vocational education. How did he do at west point . Fairly well. I would say his performance was lackluster. He was 21st in the class of 39. But there was already considerable attrition before that. He became famous for two things at the academy. He was probably the best horseman of his generation, if not century, at the academy. He established a highjumping record. They set the bar as more than five feet and grant managed to clear it. It was a record that was not equalled for many decades at the academy. He was good at drawing. But cadets were taught drawing because it was thought important for generals to be able to draw maps during battles. And grant was very good at drawing and during the civil war he had an uncaniny ability to visualize the battlefield. After west point he has a number of assignments and he ends up as a quartermaster in the mexico war. Why is his service, why does that turn out to be important . Extremely important, being quartermaster in mexico gave grant a nuts and bolts knowledge of the logistics of an army. And looking ahead to the civil war, grant would be in charge of four or five different armies stretched across 1,300mile front. His mastery of logistics, his mastery of the railroad and the telegraph enabled him to supervise these vast armies and it goes back to being quartermaster in mexico. As quarter master, grant was not obligated to fight. He could have stayed behind the lines. But he made a point of volunteering to fight in every single combat that his troops were involved in. Thats kind of real encourage. Thats real patriotism. After the mexican war he marries julia dent. What was she like and what was her family like . Grant comes from this abolitionist family in ohio, he marries into a slaveowning family in missouri. The colonel becomes the bane on his life. Hes hard on grant. Julia was outgoing and vivacious and always had a vision of grants future that he sometimes did not have himself. During the 1850s hes trying and failing to establish himself as a farmer in st. Louis and he fails at a real estate venture. During this bleak period, julia has a dream. She dreams that her husband is going to be president of the united states. And when she tells her friends and family about this dream, everyone laughs. Nothing can seem more psilly. Julia knew. You spend a fair amount of work talking about grants struggle with alcohol. What did you conclude . Did he have a problem with drinking and what sort of evidence did you use to draw those conclusions . Was he a drunkard or not and i found the term drunkard a loaded term. It applies that a person who was dissipated and irresponsible and was gleefully indulging this vice, i felt that i tried to approach it through what i hope is a more enlightened attitude. He was an alcoholic. I say that because he could never have just one drink. Even one glass of alcohol changed his personality. But this was something he struggled against his entire life. The reason i think theres been so much difficulty, the previous writers had with grants drinking is that he was a binge drinker. He could go for two or three months without touching a glass of alcohol. He would have two or threeday benders that even people who were close with him would not see him during those sprees as they were called. And so but its a problem that he struggles with and by the time he becomes president , hes largely conquered it. Its a problem that bedevils him throughout the civil war. And that causes him to leave the military. In 1854, he was assigned to a couple of garrisons where he could not afford to bring his wife and children. He was lonely. He was depressed. He starts drinking. And he shows up one day drunk and is really drummed out of the service. It was very significant because the Peacetime Army was very small and so there was an active rumor mill. All of the stories, grants history of drinking, will follow him into the civil war and will very much kind of color how people see him. I think that probably were it not for that history and all of these stories about grants drinking, Abraham Lincoln might well have brought grant much sooner in the war to act as general in chief. Grant is a civilian. You have a very poignant description of him. He ends up on the streets of st. Louis selling firewood to support his family. How does that happen . He tried making it as a farmer. Julia, as a wedding gift from her father, had received 60 acres which grant worked. He was very industous but could not make a go at it. Its ten miles into st. Louis and he walks beside the wagon. People who saw him in those days selling fire woods in st. Louis said that he was bearded, dishevelled, unkempt looking. One of his Old Army Buddies ran into him and said to him, grant, what are you doing . He said im solving the problem of poverty. He was so poor at that he was so poor at that point that one christmas he had to pawn his watch to buy christmas presents for his family. This was circa 1857, civil war breaks out 1861. Then something happens. Fort sumpter. Grant joins the volunteer infantry in illinois. You write that a changeover comes grant. What was that change . When the civil war broke out, there was a shortage of officers. About a third of the Army Officers were from the south. Most of them defected to the confederacy. There was a need for trained people. Grant add all of that lure from west point stored in his mind. He had fought in the mexican war before the civil war. And so his efficiency and his military knowledge immediately come to the fore. And grants rise gives new meaning to the term mediocre. Four months after it, hes a brigadier general, 12 months later hes a major general. And by the end of the civil war, there are man who had been working as a clerk in his fathers Leather Goods store in illinois back in 1860, that man was general and chief in the army with 1 million soldiers under his command, the Largest Military establishment in the country up until that time. He has some early victories that catches the eye of lincoln, is that right . Absolutely. Very often, the history of the civil war, theres a disproportionate focus on virginia. It seems like the confederacy is winning battle after battle. In early 1862, he has kind of twin battles against twin forts all the way in the northwest corner of tennessee. Forts henry and donaldson. Fort henry was on the tennessee river, fort donaldson on the cumberland river. Those two rivers penetrated deep into the confederacy. It was the first of three times that he captured an entire Confederate Army, more than 13,000 people. It led to a new nickname for grant. The confederate general inside the fort was buckner who wanted to send a message to grant, he wanted commissioners appointed and grant wrote back, no terms accept unconditional and immediate surrender will be accepted. That Unconditional Surrender line, it became Unconditional Surrender, grant. It was the first largescale victory of the war for the north. In late 1862 he issues general order number 11 which expels the jews from his military district in the south because he believes theyre engaged in an illegal black market cotton ring. Was he antisemitic or did he regret that decision later on . He regretted it as soon as he issued it, as soon as lincoln and secretary stanton saw it they overroad it. It was an inexcusable thing to do. People know that piece of the story. What they dont know is grant spent the rest of his life atoning for that action. As president he appointed more jews to Public Office than any other president s combined. He spoke out on human rights abuses. In both cases it was because of persecution of the jews. Since were sitting here in washington, d. C. , during the last year of his second term, he was invited to the dedication of a synagogue. Grant went with his son and with a u. S. Senator. It was a threehour ceremony. Here hes president of the united states. This is a congregation, probably had 30 or 40 people. One hour into the dedication of this synagogue, the elders went over to grant and said, mr. President , were touched that you would come to this humble function. You can leave now in good conscious. Grant insisted on saying the full three hours. Reached into his pocket, gave a donation to the synagogue. It was one of the pleasurable things about him, he was not a prejudice man. He was not a man full of hatred. You could read his statements on blacks or native americans, kind of hairraising, fer row shous things, you dont see this in grants papers at all. This was something that was out of character for him and he apologized and atoned for it the rest of his life. He has a number of other successes. He has more manpower at this time, more resources. And then he has the victory at vicksburg. Why is vicksburg so impressive and why it was really a daring capture. Yeah, it happened, you know, new orleans, baton rouge and memphis had fallen to union forces. It meant that the one great bastion on the Mississippi River left to the confederacy was vicksburg. It was located at that time there was a bend in the mississippi there that forced boats to slow down. There was seven miles of very elabora elaborate fortification. Grant had really a very daring strategy to take vicksburg under cover of night. He had ironclads and transports come down the river despite heavy shelling from the confederates. He police carmarched troops dow western bank of the mississippi. They crossed over to the only high, dry land in that area and grant has this lightning campaign. He wins five major victories in a threeweek period. Surrounds vicksburg and vicksburg surrenders. It was the same time as the victory at gettysburg and grant has captured an entire Confederate Army of more than 30,000 soldiers. And so at that point the union not only controlled the mississippi, but it bisected the kwe confederacy because a lot of the supplies came from west of the mississippi. The Confederate Army was cut off from this major source of supplies west of the mississippi. That was grant. When did president lincoln bring grant east to lead the union army . What happens in february 1864, Congress Passes a bill reinstating the title of lieutenant general. The only one who had held that was george washington. Winfield scott and grant becomes that lieutenant general. Its a wonderful story. In march 1864, he comes to washington. Grant happened to arrive at the same day that lincoln was having a reception at the white house in the blue room. And grant goes in, lincoln warmly embraces him. And there was such pandemonium in the room because grant was a hero, that they surged grant to stand up on a sofa so people could see him because he was short. He stands up. Hes perspiring profusely. And grant was always a little bit socially awkward. And grant later said that the hottest campaign he ever fought was standing on that sofa in the white house. [ laughter ] grant was impressive on a tactical level, on an operational level, and on a strategic level. How rare was that to find all three qualities in a general and how did he compare to robert e. Lee in that regard . Well, sherman had an interesting comment where he was comparing grant and lee. He said that grants strategy embraced a continent, lees strategy embraced a state, virginia. Grant had the harder task. Lee just had to inflict so much pain on union forces that the northern public would weary and decide to give up the war. Grant had to capture, destroy robert e. Lees army and he really had a Strategic Vision because the various union armies in different theaters of war had been operating independently of each other. Grant coordinated their movements so he turned them into a single fighting force and he saw that the way to wear down the confederacy is by having union forces attack different confederate armies so they could not switch reinforcements from one to another. He finally pins robert e. Lee down in richmond and petersburg. Theres another wonderful comment from sherman. He said about grant, robert e. Lee would attack the front porch. He said, grant would attack the bedroom and the kitchen. Im not sure what we meant about the bedroom. I dont want to go there. But in terms of attacking the kitchen, that, again, goes back to grant the quartermaster. But he did with lee in petersburg he began cutting off every railway line in every canc canal that was feeding supplies to lee and forcing them to flee west appomatox courthouse and that was the third Confederate Army that grant captured. How does grant conduct himself there . He refuses to allow his soldiers to glosbloet or celebr. These soldiers are starving. He allows the officers to keep their horses and firearms. And i think the most beautiful passage in the memoirs is about the meeting at appomatax because grant said he was sad and depressed when he met lee. And he said rather than rejoicing over the down fall of a foe and suffered such hardship for a cause, although that cause was the worst than any army could have fought for, and i think its a beautiful statement particularly weve had a prolonged discussion about the confederate monuments. I think grant shows the way because on the one hand, in that passage, he pays homage to the bravery of the confederate soldiers. And they were brave in many, many battles. At the same time the cause for which they were fighting, the perpetuation of slavery, was as grant says one of the worst causes that people fight for. So i think the humanity