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Transcripts For CSPAN3 The Civil War Confederate Monuments
Transcripts For CSPAN3 The Civil War Confederate Monuments
Transcripts For CSPAN3 The Civil War Confederate Monuments Memorials 20240712
Throughout the country and the world, people raise questions about the purposes of the leaders who supported or profited from slavery, whether in richmond, boston, or birmingham, monuments and statues have become a flashpoint for the black lives matter movement. Since 2015, ford has held an annual
Summer Institute
set in myth memory, monument, and that has forced questions of remembrance and memorialization. Each year, we find the spring has brought new and urgent crises that require attention and consideration. This year, more that more than any recent memory, demands that and more. Today, we explore some of these questions with you. I am pleased to welcome dr. Toary green and kevin levin todays cabinet conversation. Both dr. Green and mr. Levin have written extensively on how a wide range of americans commemorate the civil war. Sharingrrently different perspectives on civil war memorials. They have been active in recent debates dr. Green is an associate professor of history and the department of gender and serves as a coprogram director of the
Africanamerican Studies Program
at the university of alabama. Ester levanon is an educator and historian with a focus on civil war era, civil war memory and history education. He serves as a resident scholar for
Summer Teacher Institute
set in stone. It gives me great pleasure to turn the program over to dr. Reen and mr. Levin thank you. Thank you. We have a pretty hot topic to talk about in short period of time. The topic of civil war memory and
Confederate Monument
s and memorials, which is in the news over the past few weeks. I thought we would start with the big picture. The two of us, we have spent a lot of time over the years thinking about this subject and writing about it. 24 7 aboutn thinking it. We have probably been dreaming about it. We are aware of that or we are not. I assume for most people, they are coming out this fresh. Theyre watching the news, they are reading on social media and they are probably grappling with what it is that is going on. How do we begin to make sense of it . I thought we would start with the big picture and then try to focus in on some topics. Wondering, for that individual, the person who is coming out this topic fresh, and is trying to make sense of it, where do we start in terms of trying to come to terms with this civil war landscape, monument landscape, specifically
Confederate Monument
landscape. Where do we start . Dr. Green i always go back to the monument craze. At the monument removal craze at the moment. Andent from the cemeteries nobody complained about that because africanamericans, no one was like when they go into public spaces and the timing of it with the rise of white supremacy, jim crow segregation, especially when i look at the map of when these monuments come up, you get a direct overlay. With those monuments, the impetus of those monuments, who were the women behind it . Not just the monuments but the textbooks, all of that. And then look at the dedication speeches. About thee and talk beginning. Mr. Levin you have laid out a couple of things already. To reveal a little bit, when we have these different periods of memorialization, immediately after the war, white women in the south are placing them mainly in cemeteries. The early memorializations, for the most part, cemeteries to commemorate the dead. They are not intended as public statements called statements, although they are in a way. By the time to out of reconstruction, that is when we see the shift to the public spaces. Courthouses, squares, intersections, etc. That seems to be the monuments where we are having trouble with today. The 1920s, and there is a spike around the civil rights movement. Mr. Levin the map of resistance. Dr. Green one of the things you africanamericans admit that all of this struggle, always rejected those monuments. Even when they did not have a political say anymore, you see in
North Carolina
, county officials saying, if another person vandalize his this thing, we will lynch them. They are using that language. Ways of showing they are putting out another civil war memory. Do not walk in terror. We have our own memories. It is not safe enough for us to talk about it openly. And theence of lynchs there silences also because a lot of people did not want to speak up and there was no climate where people could speak up. Mr. Levin right from the beginning, one of the things people need to understand is that africanamericans, for example, it is not as if these monuments recently becoming controversial. From day one, they were controversial. Africanamericans understood what the war was about. They had their own way of commemorating whether it was emancipation ceremonies. There are a few monuments you can find throughout the south, not many at all, these monuments this is the part that
People Struggle
with. These monuments reflect the political hierarchy of the jim crow era. It is white southerners that have the ability because they are controlling local government to decide how the past is remembered in public spaces. Foronstitutes an argument legalized segregation. If you can erase the past of other people from the public landscape, you can justify placing them as secondclass citizens. Dr. Green the placement of them at courthouse is. You have the legal system,. Riminal
Justice System
of policing,e which is why it is interesting now that the ones that s and if you look at the
North Carolina
once and even in alabama, they are at courthouse is. There moving them because protesters see that long term legacy and the legacy of various types of policing. Monuments those reinforce who is considered a full citizen and who is not. Wondering, is there an example of a statue or monument that stands out that really drives home the complexity of all of this . The intersection of the politics of race, white supremacy, is there a monument that speaks to that . Dr. Green there are two. One is silent sam at the university of
North Carolina
. I am a tar heel. As a student, and i was a graduate student, i change the way i walked on that campus. To see that monument. I am like, no, i have a right to be here. I am getting my phd. I refused to walk by it. When i graduated and i speech,ediscovered the i was starting to teach in
North Carolina
and i started teaching from day one. I have beens teaching that speech been speak teaching that speech since 2010. Got her phdman who from chapel hill. For me, that visceral reaction as a student and the ability to teach and educate and get my students to understand what chapel his is what chapel hill is. Ideaof my students had no that black students would go out of their way to not have to see. University of alabama, it was just recently removed. When i talk about the daughters my wholederacy class goes out to the academic quad and we talk about it. Situated,re africanamericans hand cut as slave labor. Klan claimed that as a rallying point. You have the current day people who tailgate to their have no idea. Tailgate there have no idea. For me to be able to use that monument as a teaching stool teaching tool, it went from student to faculty to teaching. I am always teaching to have those conversations. Language and the the tools to have these conversations. Mr. Levin you are absolutely right. What you are doing on the university of alabama is a reminder that the reach of the udc extended way beyond courthouse squares and parks. Extended to the universities themselves. Work,us on their monument they are much more concerned about controlling textbooks, controlling the
Younger Generation
that never lived through the war and giving them pride. I want to push back on you with something you might hear from maybe someone watching. Hold on, you have this teaching tool on your campus that you were using to teach your students, having them the language and doing all the things you just mentioned, and now it is gone. I am wondering why cant someone push back and say, those monuments on monument avenue in richmond, you cannot think of a better teaching tool. What do we need to understand in terms of the distinction between history and memory . Many people are somewhat confused by it. Removewe still need to monument . It represents does the monument represent
Power Dynamics
and oppression . Is it all memory . Wholemonuments erased a bunch of peoples memories, including the africanamerican memory. Black theand black women are doing the same thing. We stillhings have the records. Being on the campus, that africanamerican memory, the pain and trauma and intensity still exists. Helps to get healing. , they could be contextualized and have that space but not in public one that is an assault. Mr. Levin that was the original plan for the university to place it in some kind of museum. I remember writing in support of it on social media and i got a lot of pushback. I finally understood what people were getting at. It does give you a sense of how emotional this is. Dr. Green there is no onesizefitsall model. Each individual community has to do that. We did not have violence. It was a petition. If you look at the petition writers, one of them i had in class. Literature, all of these great new books that have complicated this narrative. Crazesnts where these started. Charleston, charlottesville, flashpoint of violence. Individuals. Nine it is what kicked off this craze. , it recent phase of protest is a recent manifestation of a longer history. This goes back to 2015. Start with that. You go to dixie , and your book, you can get the longer history. I think it changes the perception that we see ourselves in a
Larger Community
and to have those discussions. Mr. Levin this is a question i have struggled with. What exactly is our role as a story and . We write these books historians . We write these books, give these talks and we end up watching these things going on in happening so fast, it is dizzying. Tory morning i get up, i add the list of monument removals im trying to keep up with, and it is impossible. What are we doing . And throwingg here out some things for people to read and educate themselves and think more broadly, but is that the extent of it . What is our place in a discussion that often seems more about the present acted through these monuments to the past . Racism. Of systemic seemems, does not always to be the focus on monuments. Dr. Green one of the things weecent manifestation we are afraid to talk about race. Even willing to listen to other sides. One of the things i have been doing a lot is education, starting those conversations. Talkis a space for us to and a space for people to share. I have been in enough 2010 in northfrom , i set it on some meetings with the county commissioners. The black
Community Gets
up there and says, we are willing to compromise. They are told to get over it. And then the shouting begins. Now people are like, wait, i see your point. Lets listen. That pain, especially for who sawamericans statues bulldozed for urban renewal. That pain is real. We never defended us when were trying to save our community. Hour andt for half an people are like, wait, we really did it. It changes how we can move conversations. You wrote about the emancipation statute in boston. Thoughts about the one in d. C. . Even the boston one . Mr. Levin it is complicated because there are so many ways you can approach the emancipation statue in d. C. And it isy teachers always a great moment because we are reading from the address. He gave the dedication address in 1876. You can find this online. It is an incredible address because it is so complicated and douglas is never willing to let lincoln off the hook as the great emancipator. He was they says, white mans president. It is a great opportunity to get a complexity of lincolns legacy, at least in the eyes of douglas. The memorial itself is complex because it was paid by newly freed men. The enslaved man is based on a real person, archer alexander. Thely, it is the submissive pose that even troubled douglas. He comments on it. Lincoln hovering on hovering over the great emancipator beckoning him to rise. Copy was brought to the city of boston in 1879. That was not paid for by friedman. It sat in park square since then. Now that everything is in the news, there is the young africanamerican man in dorchester who posted a video on his facebook page. It is a very wellthoughtout argument calling for its removal. One of the things i tried to point out, and i think this gets at one way to understand monuments not just in isolation, but we should see them in relation to other monuments in the vicinity. The problem with boston, other , the onlyhaw memorial abolitionists to in boston are two white men. Boston was the center of abolitionist activity. It speaks of the power of these erase thatot to just history but to distort it. It leaves you with an uneven understanding of what took place. Visitors, i think, between the freedom trail and the revolution and those statues think of freedom in boston as something that white people achieved, right . That is problematic, right . Dr. Green the other thing about the d. C. Monument, the whole neighborhood has changed. Every time i go there now, kids are playing on it. This is not how i wouldve imagined this monument. Mr. Levin they even moved the lincoln statute at some point. Statue at some point. It is problematic. What we do with it, it raises another problem. This is really up to local communities. They are the ones who put them up originally. I think we have a question on monuments. My mothers family is from franklin county, pennsylvania. With next book, i open gettysburg. Inpent a lot of time gettysburg. It is a battlefield. Debatethe things in this , what is thea lot distinction . Me, i am expecting them. Mr. Levin maybe i see it as more problematic, although i think we do have to acknowledge is we are talking about federal land versus local property. That, of course, is a whole other ballgame. Trying to get the federal ivernment to do anything think in most places, especially those run by the
National Park
service, they do a phenomenal job of interpreting them and placing them in the context of the battlefield. When youre standing at the
North Carolina
monument and that monument is a beautiful monument , there is aolinians plaque that praises these men. They were marching for the brian farm. As family that had to flee lees army is coming into pennsylvania, and kidnapping upwards of 200 free blacks. If you know this history, you can use these monuments as windows into the past. To the average family, i wonder what they are walking away from, saying robert healy hovering robert e lee hovering. Does this reinforce a lost cause of a gallant attack . Gettysburg, i go the alabama monument, it took years. The thing about the north , there is a conversation that i think happens locally that does not always happen nationally. Federal park service in the
National Park
of gettysburg and antietam has done such a fabulous job. These spaces, i am fine with. Some of the state once, they could do a better contextualization. These memorials, the federal land, the park service. , these if it is not here are one of the better examples. Others should learn from these models. Mr. Levin doesnt help us in anyway understand why so few africanamericans visit these battlefield . Does it get us back to ways in which these memorial landscapes who feels welcomed . I am just throwing it out there. Freereen africanamericans who were innapped and enslaved , including the white community, are the ones who are taken and never come back. They just disappear. This small farming community, these losses are real. They talk about the occupations, they talk about lee and they and about those enlisted the stolen ones. Mr. Levin this is what shocked me. Included at least 10,000 enslaved people. The army of
Northern Virginia
is slaves. Of it is functioning as a slave catching army. Dr. Green talk about a regular slave hunt. This is part of my first chapter of the book. Started hearing the sounds of war, they sorted to hide in the caverns in different places. And different places. Song. Tes this long 10 days after gettysburg, and he talks about lee coming in and stealing people. They are called negro league eelers negro stealers. Most people outside those border counties. What happens afterwards, and that has been lost. That has brought more africanamericans to that farm. They will go more africanamericans will go to antietam and to gettysburg but they will not go to the other one. Mr. Levin that is a good point. We only have a few minutes left. I hateu think historians trying to predict anything. Is what we are seeing now going to continue . Current pace, right . What do you see happening . Monument avenue is going to be gone apart from the arthur ashe statute, at the end of summer . Dr. Green i think it will continue and i think it will continue with a couple more years and then slow back down. Five years for an historians short. Short i am ats 120 removed. 25 of a whole list of columbus and a whole bunch of people who promised to remove it. That will be another 40. I think these next three years, we will see a lot more. And then it will slow down. For me, my concern is, especially on my campus, the university of alabama apologized for slavery. It. Gave a marker to 2006 2 it. 006 to remove the that we marker. The moving and adding new is easy. If you do not use that as a starting point, it will not do much in the long run. I see a lot of the ones at courthouses are coming down. Hopefully, i can keep up because i know i have to teach this. Being a witness to this history and being a witness to my own campuses history, i can never have expected this. Mr. Levin i do not have anything to add to that. To talk fortinue the next hour. We need to hand back over to paul. Let me just say first of all, i am glad you brought me back. I have a very important question. One of the what an amazing conversation. I have a question for each of you. Which of the monuments that are still that have not been taken down, for each of you, are the most offensive and that you really would like to see removed . Dr. Green . Dr. Green i think it is coming down. Monument inlhoun charleston. My families might my fathers family is from the low country. It, i justi go by want it down. , i will do aown dance for joy like i did for silent sam. Removee is a movement to that. What do you think, in the next months . Dr. Green the mayor announced it yesterday. If it comes down, i will be a happy person. Thats great. Kevin, what about you . Mr. Levin i hesitate to say this because we use it in the summer program. We use teachers we bring teachers to the confederate memorial in the middle of the
Summer Institute<\/a> set in myth memory, monument, and that has forced questions of remembrance and memorialization. Each year, we find the spring has brought new and urgent crises that require attention and consideration. This year, more that more than any recent memory, demands that and more. Today, we explore some of these questions with you. I am pleased to welcome dr. Toary green and kevin levin todays cabinet conversation. Both dr. Green and mr. Levin have written extensively on how a wide range of americans commemorate the civil war. Sharingrrently different perspectives on civil war memorials. They have been active in recent debates dr. Green is an associate professor of history and the department of gender and serves as a coprogram director of the
Africanamerican Studies Program<\/a> at the university of alabama. Ester levanon is an educator and historian with a focus on civil war era, civil war memory and history education. He serves as a resident scholar for
Summer Teacher Institute<\/a> set in stone. It gives me great pleasure to turn the program over to dr. Reen and mr. Levin thank you. Thank you. We have a pretty hot topic to talk about in short period of time. The topic of civil war memory and
Confederate Monument<\/a>s and memorials, which is in the news over the past few weeks. I thought we would start with the big picture. The two of us, we have spent a lot of time over the years thinking about this subject and writing about it. 24 7 aboutn thinking it. We have probably been dreaming about it. We are aware of that or we are not. I assume for most people, they are coming out this fresh. Theyre watching the news, they are reading on social media and they are probably grappling with what it is that is going on. How do we begin to make sense of it . I thought we would start with the big picture and then try to focus in on some topics. Wondering, for that individual, the person who is coming out this topic fresh, and is trying to make sense of it, where do we start in terms of trying to come to terms with this civil war landscape, monument landscape, specifically
Confederate Monument<\/a> landscape. Where do we start . Dr. Green i always go back to the monument craze. At the monument removal craze at the moment. Andent from the cemeteries nobody complained about that because africanamericans, no one was like when they go into public spaces and the timing of it with the rise of white supremacy, jim crow segregation, especially when i look at the map of when these monuments come up, you get a direct overlay. With those monuments, the impetus of those monuments, who were the women behind it . Not just the monuments but the textbooks, all of that. And then look at the dedication speeches. About thee and talk beginning. Mr. Levin you have laid out a couple of things already. To reveal a little bit, when we have these different periods of memorialization, immediately after the war, white women in the south are placing them mainly in cemeteries. The early memorializations, for the most part, cemeteries to commemorate the dead. They are not intended as public statements called statements, although they are in a way. By the time to out of reconstruction, that is when we see the shift to the public spaces. Courthouses, squares, intersections, etc. That seems to be the monuments where we are having trouble with today. The 1920s, and there is a spike around the civil rights movement. Mr. Levin the map of resistance. Dr. Green one of the things you africanamericans admit that all of this struggle, always rejected those monuments. Even when they did not have a political say anymore, you see in
North Carolina<\/a>, county officials saying, if another person vandalize his this thing, we will lynch them. They are using that language. Ways of showing they are putting out another civil war memory. Do not walk in terror. We have our own memories. It is not safe enough for us to talk about it openly. And theence of lynchs there silences also because a lot of people did not want to speak up and there was no climate where people could speak up. Mr. Levin right from the beginning, one of the things people need to understand is that africanamericans, for example, it is not as if these monuments recently becoming controversial. From day one, they were controversial. Africanamericans understood what the war was about. They had their own way of commemorating whether it was emancipation ceremonies. There are a few monuments you can find throughout the south, not many at all, these monuments this is the part that
People Struggle<\/a> with. These monuments reflect the political hierarchy of the jim crow era. It is white southerners that have the ability because they are controlling local government to decide how the past is remembered in public spaces. Foronstitutes an argument legalized segregation. If you can erase the past of other people from the public landscape, you can justify placing them as secondclass citizens. Dr. Green the placement of them at courthouse is. You have the legal system,. Riminal
Justice System<\/a> of policing,e which is why it is interesting now that the ones that s and if you look at the
North Carolina<\/a> once and even in alabama, they are at courthouse is. There moving them because protesters see that long term legacy and the legacy of various types of policing. Monuments those reinforce who is considered a full citizen and who is not. Wondering, is there an example of a statue or monument that stands out that really drives home the complexity of all of this . The intersection of the politics of race, white supremacy, is there a monument that speaks to that . Dr. Green there are two. One is silent sam at the university of
North Carolina<\/a>. I am a tar heel. As a student, and i was a graduate student, i change the way i walked on that campus. To see that monument. I am like, no, i have a right to be here. I am getting my phd. I refused to walk by it. When i graduated and i speech,ediscovered the i was starting to teach in
North Carolina<\/a> and i started teaching from day one. I have beens teaching that speech been speak teaching that speech since 2010. Got her phdman who from chapel hill. For me, that visceral reaction as a student and the ability to teach and educate and get my students to understand what chapel his is what chapel hill is. Ideaof my students had no that black students would go out of their way to not have to see. University of alabama, it was just recently removed. When i talk about the daughters my wholederacy class goes out to the academic quad and we talk about it. Situated,re africanamericans hand cut as slave labor. Klan claimed that as a rallying point. You have the current day people who tailgate to their have no idea. Tailgate there have no idea. For me to be able to use that monument as a teaching stool teaching tool, it went from student to faculty to teaching. I am always teaching to have those conversations. Language and the the tools to have these conversations. Mr. Levin you are absolutely right. What you are doing on the university of alabama is a reminder that the reach of the udc extended way beyond courthouse squares and parks. Extended to the universities themselves. Work,us on their monument they are much more concerned about controlling textbooks, controlling the
Younger Generation<\/a> that never lived through the war and giving them pride. I want to push back on you with something you might hear from maybe someone watching. Hold on, you have this teaching tool on your campus that you were using to teach your students, having them the language and doing all the things you just mentioned, and now it is gone. I am wondering why cant someone push back and say, those monuments on monument avenue in richmond, you cannot think of a better teaching tool. What do we need to understand in terms of the distinction between history and memory . Many people are somewhat confused by it. Removewe still need to monument . It represents does the monument represent
Power Dynamics<\/a> and oppression . Is it all memory . Wholemonuments erased a bunch of peoples memories, including the africanamerican memory. Black theand black women are doing the same thing. We stillhings have the records. Being on the campus, that africanamerican memory, the pain and trauma and intensity still exists. Helps to get healing. , they could be contextualized and have that space but not in public one that is an assault. Mr. Levin that was the original plan for the university to place it in some kind of museum. I remember writing in support of it on social media and i got a lot of pushback. I finally understood what people were getting at. It does give you a sense of how emotional this is. Dr. Green there is no onesizefitsall model. Each individual community has to do that. We did not have violence. It was a petition. If you look at the petition writers, one of them i had in class. Literature, all of these great new books that have complicated this narrative. Crazesnts where these started. Charleston, charlottesville, flashpoint of violence. Individuals. Nine it is what kicked off this craze. , it recent phase of protest is a recent manifestation of a longer history. This goes back to 2015. Start with that. You go to dixie , and your book, you can get the longer history. I think it changes the perception that we see ourselves in a
Larger Community<\/a> and to have those discussions. Mr. Levin this is a question i have struggled with. What exactly is our role as a story and . We write these books historians . We write these books, give these talks and we end up watching these things going on in happening so fast, it is dizzying. Tory morning i get up, i add the list of monument removals im trying to keep up with, and it is impossible. What are we doing . And throwingg here out some things for people to read and educate themselves and think more broadly, but is that the extent of it . What is our place in a discussion that often seems more about the present acted through these monuments to the past . Racism. Of systemic seemems, does not always to be the focus on monuments. Dr. Green one of the things weecent manifestation we are afraid to talk about race. Even willing to listen to other sides. One of the things i have been doing a lot is education, starting those conversations. Talkis a space for us to and a space for people to share. I have been in enough 2010 in northfrom , i set it on some meetings with the county commissioners. The black
Community Gets<\/a> up there and says, we are willing to compromise. They are told to get over it. And then the shouting begins. Now people are like, wait, i see your point. Lets listen. That pain, especially for who sawamericans statues bulldozed for urban renewal. That pain is real. We never defended us when were trying to save our community. Hour andt for half an people are like, wait, we really did it. It changes how we can move conversations. You wrote about the emancipation statute in boston. Thoughts about the one in d. C. . Even the boston one . Mr. Levin it is complicated because there are so many ways you can approach the emancipation statue in d. C. And it isy teachers always a great moment because we are reading from the address. He gave the dedication address in 1876. You can find this online. It is an incredible address because it is so complicated and douglas is never willing to let lincoln off the hook as the great emancipator. He was they says, white mans president. It is a great opportunity to get a complexity of lincolns legacy, at least in the eyes of douglas. The memorial itself is complex because it was paid by newly freed men. The enslaved man is based on a real person, archer alexander. Thely, it is the submissive pose that even troubled douglas. He comments on it. Lincoln hovering on hovering over the great emancipator beckoning him to rise. Copy was brought to the city of boston in 1879. That was not paid for by friedman. It sat in park square since then. Now that everything is in the news, there is the young africanamerican man in dorchester who posted a video on his facebook page. It is a very wellthoughtout argument calling for its removal. One of the things i tried to point out, and i think this gets at one way to understand monuments not just in isolation, but we should see them in relation to other monuments in the vicinity. The problem with boston, other , the onlyhaw memorial abolitionists to in boston are two white men. Boston was the center of abolitionist activity. It speaks of the power of these erase thatot to just history but to distort it. It leaves you with an uneven understanding of what took place. Visitors, i think, between the freedom trail and the revolution and those statues think of freedom in boston as something that white people achieved, right . That is problematic, right . Dr. Green the other thing about the d. C. Monument, the whole neighborhood has changed. Every time i go there now, kids are playing on it. This is not how i wouldve imagined this monument. Mr. Levin they even moved the lincoln statute at some point. Statue at some point. It is problematic. What we do with it, it raises another problem. This is really up to local communities. They are the ones who put them up originally. I think we have a question on monuments. My mothers family is from franklin county, pennsylvania. With next book, i open gettysburg. Inpent a lot of time gettysburg. It is a battlefield. Debatethe things in this , what is thea lot distinction . Me, i am expecting them. Mr. Levin maybe i see it as more problematic, although i think we do have to acknowledge is we are talking about federal land versus local property. That, of course, is a whole other ballgame. Trying to get the federal ivernment to do anything think in most places, especially those run by the
National Park<\/a> service, they do a phenomenal job of interpreting them and placing them in the context of the battlefield. When youre standing at the
North Carolina<\/a> monument and that monument is a beautiful monument , there is aolinians plaque that praises these men. They were marching for the brian farm. As family that had to flee lees army is coming into pennsylvania, and kidnapping upwards of 200 free blacks. If you know this history, you can use these monuments as windows into the past. To the average family, i wonder what they are walking away from, saying robert healy hovering robert e lee hovering. Does this reinforce a lost cause of a gallant attack . Gettysburg, i go the alabama monument, it took years. The thing about the north , there is a conversation that i think happens locally that does not always happen nationally. Federal park service in the
National Park<\/a> of gettysburg and antietam has done such a fabulous job. These spaces, i am fine with. Some of the state once, they could do a better contextualization. These memorials, the federal land, the park service. , these if it is not here are one of the better examples. Others should learn from these models. Mr. Levin doesnt help us in anyway understand why so few africanamericans visit these battlefield . Does it get us back to ways in which these memorial landscapes who feels welcomed . I am just throwing it out there. Freereen africanamericans who were innapped and enslaved , including the white community, are the ones who are taken and never come back. They just disappear. This small farming community, these losses are real. They talk about the occupations, they talk about lee and they and about those enlisted the stolen ones. Mr. Levin this is what shocked me. Included at least 10,000 enslaved people. The army of
Northern Virginia<\/a> is slaves. Of it is functioning as a slave catching army. Dr. Green talk about a regular slave hunt. This is part of my first chapter of the book. Started hearing the sounds of war, they sorted to hide in the caverns in different places. And different places. Song. Tes this long 10 days after gettysburg, and he talks about lee coming in and stealing people. They are called negro league eelers negro stealers. Most people outside those border counties. What happens afterwards, and that has been lost. That has brought more africanamericans to that farm. They will go more africanamericans will go to antietam and to gettysburg but they will not go to the other one. Mr. Levin that is a good point. We only have a few minutes left. I hateu think historians trying to predict anything. Is what we are seeing now going to continue . Current pace, right . What do you see happening . Monument avenue is going to be gone apart from the arthur ashe statute, at the end of summer . Dr. Green i think it will continue and i think it will continue with a couple more years and then slow back down. Five years for an historians short. Short i am ats 120 removed. 25 of a whole list of columbus and a whole bunch of people who promised to remove it. That will be another 40. I think these next three years, we will see a lot more. And then it will slow down. For me, my concern is, especially on my campus, the university of alabama apologized for slavery. It. Gave a marker to 2006 2 it. 006 to remove the that we marker. The moving and adding new is easy. If you do not use that as a starting point, it will not do much in the long run. I see a lot of the ones at courthouses are coming down. Hopefully, i can keep up because i know i have to teach this. Being a witness to this history and being a witness to my own campuses history, i can never have expected this. Mr. Levin i do not have anything to add to that. To talk fortinue the next hour. We need to hand back over to paul. Let me just say first of all, i am glad you brought me back. I have a very important question. One of the what an amazing conversation. I have a question for each of you. Which of the monuments that are still that have not been taken down, for each of you, are the most offensive and that you really would like to see removed . Dr. Green . Dr. Green i think it is coming down. Monument inlhoun charleston. My families might my fathers family is from the low country. It, i justi go by want it down. , i will do aown dance for joy like i did for silent sam. Removee is a movement to that. What do you think, in the next months . Dr. Green the mayor announced it yesterday. If it comes down, i will be a happy person. Thats great. Kevin, what about you . Mr. Levin i hesitate to say this because we use it in the summer program. We use teachers we bring teachers to the confederate memorial in the middle of the
Arlington National<\/a> cemetery. Its around 365 confederate graves it surrounds 365 confederate graves. It is a nonapologetic pro
Confederate Monument<\/a> during a time of national reconciliation. It reinforces in the most direct way, the most explicit way possible, in the midst of it thes the
Image Company<\/a> who puts out aunt jemima will discontinue calling it that. Example of theic loyal slave image. This is taking the child of the confederate officer, who was about to go off to war. In another group, a group of soldiers and you see what is a uniformed black man marching off. For many people today, they cite this as evidence of black confederate soldiers. It really is a cap slave that wouldve marched off camp slave that would have marched off to war with his masters. Arlington is the final resting place for black
Union Soldiers<\/a> that gave their lives for this country. Section 27 in the far corner. The confederate section is a prominent one. It not only pushes the history of black soldiers,
Union Soldiers<\/a> out of the picture, but it reinforces a dangerous view or interpretation of africanamericans at a time when, of course, we are talking about legalized segregation. That is ranked top of my list in terms of monuments that deserve at least a very serious discussion. Any movement . Mr. Levin absolutely not and i suspect there wont be. Ok. Trying to see i think i have a few more minutes. I will take liberty and i will slip that question a little bit. I will start again with dr. Green. Of all the monuments that have been removed recently, which one did you do a dance for when that came down . Sam . T me, as a student, and theeral reaction removal andover the my relationship with the andersity had shifted pushed me more into entering these debates. When i did get to do it, i did a little jump for joy over that. Silent sam was the one i did. Mr. Levin this is easy. Memphis, tennessee. Know why the i statue was placed there originally. Aknowledging its role as slave trader before the war, confederate general responsible for one of the worst racial massacres during the war. After the war, his involvement in the ku klux klan. I did not do a dance but i had a big smile on my face. The next move, when it comes to that statue, he and his wife are they still need to be removed as well. Like all of these monuments down, down, or will come the exciting question of what these communities will do to turn these public spaces into spaces that reflect the values of the community as a whole and are welcoming to all, to everyone in those communities. Along those lines, a question from our viewers, are there blacks that are well done and need more recognition or people should see . This is an opportunity to put a promotion of for those monuments that people should go see. Monument inne is a
North Carolina<\/a>. It is created by africanamerican women. It is on the edge of the black community. It is a rare monument of its time. Is in southe carolina. D. C. Monument. We need more of them. Lee down and put john , i wouldon top of it be happy. It is up to the community to determine who are the
Freedom Fighters<\/a> in their community who deserve honoring. I was going to say the one in d. C. As well. It is a relatively new monument. 90s. S back to the late it is in the shaw neighborhood, you street, close to u street, close to howard university. It is becoming more gentrified, which makes it a bit more complex. If you visit d. C. , make it a point to visit that monument. And the museum across the street. Say thank you to both of you. Dr. Hilary green and kevin levin for joining us on todays conversation. You were terrific. What an informative conversation, enlightening conversation. You have given everyone, i hopefully, you have given them some travel plans to see the places where these monuments were that were rightfully removed and go see some of the monuments that exist and really need people to promote them. Thank you so much. Learn more about the people and events that shape the civil war and reconstruction every saturday at 6 00 eastern on
American History<\/a> tv here on cspan3. This is
American History<\/a> tv, featuring events, interviews, and discussions. 48 hours all weekend every weekend only on cspan3. Announcer 1 75 years ago in the summer of 1945, the
United States<\/a> dropped two atomic bombs on japan, one august 6 and the other nagasaki on august 9. In this recorded history by the
National World<\/a>
War Ii Museum<\/a>, army veteran
Eugene Disabatino<\/a> talks about his assignment to the
Manhattan Project<\/a> which included the assigned at los alamos and watching over the bomb being dropped on nagasaki. The
National World<\/a>
War Ii Museum<\/a> provided the video. Eugene well, i was born in wilmington, delaware. And basically, i grew up in","publisher":{"@type":"Organization","name":"archive.org","logo":{"@type":"ImageObject","width":"800","height":"600","url":"\/\/ia601908.us.archive.org\/19\/items\/CSPAN3_20200905_220000_The_Civil_War_Confederate_Monuments__Memorials\/CSPAN3_20200905_220000_The_Civil_War_Confederate_Monuments__Memorials.thumbs\/CSPAN3_20200905_220000_The_Civil_War_Confederate_Monuments__Memorials_000001.jpg"}},"autauthor":{"@type":"Organization"},"author":{"sameAs":"archive.org","name":"archive.org"}}],"coverageEndTime":"20240716T12:35:10+00:00"}