For being with us today. I look forward to a fascinating conversation. My pleasure. Thank you for being with us. I could not be the more delighted to welcome my old friend general washington to be in company once again. It has been a time, general. It has been, search. Its actually my pleasure and my honor to be with you, although i confess i do not understand how this is happening. Well i believe, general, it is because of one of the duties written explicitly in our constitution. One of the duties of the legislative body. The pursuit of science. Which i am a strong supporter of. Our first question then. It is for the two of you. What do you remember as your first meeting . First meeting. You know. If you will allow me, mr. Jefferson, i reckon that those who are viewing may or may not be aware that i am older than yourself by 11 or 12 years. 11 years, your excellency. We were both born under the old style calendar. Thats correct. Very confusing at different times. I actually believe i remember meeting a young thomas, the son of Peter Jefferson, on my first surveying trip, i was a young fellow myself, and Peter Jefferson and colonel joshua or engaged in meeting on that survey. I traveled to the west world and luckily came in contact with a young. inaudible its interesting this coincident of joshua and frye and jefferson. They were the best of friends. Colonel fry died on a horse accident. I became a colonel at that time. I became commander of the virginia regiment. I continue to travel to build roads and such. But it is likely that we came in contact with each other in the old capital, williamsburg, but the clearest absolute recollection i have was when we were both serving in the house of bridges. Thomas, you began serving in the late sixties . I first took my seat in that ancient body in the spring of 1769. But i must tell you, your excellency, you were already a legend within my family when i was a young boy. My father, colonel Peter Jefferson, spoke very highly of you. He, as you well know, was a survey or commissioned by the royal authority. Surveying far the western lands of virginia and beyond. He knew you well when you were a young major. And i believe you both set together in the Virginia House of vergess is just before he passed away. He passed away in 1757. When i came to the house 12 years later, i had already known of you. I was practicing law and williamsburg. In fact, general, i do not know whether you remember, but when i was a young man of 25 years of age, i had already become a devotedly of theater. I never missed an opportunity when the Virginia Company would be performing in williamsburg at that old theater across from candles. In fact, i believe mrs. Campbells was quite the destination for you. You enjoyed her fine seafood. Theyre the two of us, if i remember well, attended a production of the Virginia Company. I was only about, oh, i would venture 25 years of age. It was in the spring of 68. I remembered that you are quite a devoted of the theater. I am. I must confess to you that at this age i do not actually remember meeting you. But it is possible. I was hardly drive behind the ears in those early years, general. Like i said, you are younger than myself. Speaking of the Virginia House of burgesses, we were both members in the years leading up to the American Revolution, what were some of the issues that arose and how did they lead to americas break with england . If you will allow me, i shall begin and then let you convey the substance of it. You are correct, we both did serve in the house of burgesses, although i started in 1756 a few years earlier. If you will allow an old man to recollect, because when once hair turns white that is what one does. I remember a story that was relayed from colonel mason to mrs. Washington. It was my first attendance at the house of burgesses. I was home from the french indian war and i entered the hall, we called it the hall. All the members rose and gave me standing acclaim according to colonel mason. I was expected to return that acclaim by making a speech. Forgive me, but colonel mason told mrs. Washington that i blush read like a virgin and was completely tongue tied. It was at that point that the speaker hit his stuff on the floor and said, you may sit down colonel washington for it is obvious to all that your modesty is equal to your bravery. That said, i would tell you that i was not particularly innovative or a routine speaker at the house of burgesses. I sat with younger burgesses, colonel mason and mr. Jefferson as well. And of course, many wiser members of the burgesses, speaker robinson, mr. Rand off. In the years leading up to the war for independence, the Virginia House of burgesses was very entrenched in that struggle. In 1760, the house asserted it had the Sole Authority to tax virginians. In may of 1774, close to the outbreak of the war, at the last session of the house, you mentioned before mr. Jefferson, i remember that we called for humiliation and prayer. This was in support of what was happening. The boston citizenry was subjected to acts of strong discipline. It was at that point, and this is what you referenced, that governor done more properly dissolved the Virginia House of burgesses. We met the next day. We signed a number of documents and continue to support the war, but truth be told, the Virginia House of burgesses never truly meets in full again. You might want to add to this, mr. Jefferson. I remember vividly, general, those years that have speaking once i took my seat in the house of burgesses. There was one concern that followed immediately after the next and i certainly do recall when we heard about the closure of the port of boston, a retaliation by the crown because of the socalled tea party. I always thought its outrageous to agree a party in boston harbour. That was a right and destruction of private property. However, with just cause. When we learned of the atrocious method by which the crown were closed down the entire port to punish all of the inhabitants of massachusetts bay, we would not let it pass in virginia. You are absolutely right that we cooked up, as i have written, a resolution for a day of fasting, humiliation and prayer. Not all were happy with that. If i remember, general, if i remember, the evening before, governor done more, who wrote to the old capital williamsburg, he was there to dissolve us as was the royal prerogative. If i am correct in recalling, did you not have a repast to share a meal with governor dumore at the old royal palace . You are correct. I was hoping to defuse his response. It was to no effect and you were present, i remember distinctly, in the old raleigh tavern when our good friend, my cousin, the late 18 randall who was speaker at the house of burgesses at the time, decided we ought to get it together, virginia and massachusetts, 600 miles distance and to be accompanied by our sister colonies. Not in virginia as a virginian want it or not further in massachusetts, but midway between the northern and southern colonies. To meet you in philadelphia. Not general, i wish i had been there at that First Congress september 74, but i fell ill and was not able to go. But you are there the very First Congress of all of the colonies. I always envied that about your history, along with so many other things that have continued to remain in inspiration for me. If you remember, thomas, it was only months earlier that all of us in virginia believing that these things could happen. Just months earlier, the governor confiscated all the black powder and weaponry and williamsburg. General, general, if you will, i beg your pardon, you know i do that frequently. Im having a difficulty being able to hear you. Mind you speak just a tad ladder. I shall. I shall. I was saying that it was just months earlier that the governor had confiscated the black powder and the weaponry from the magazine at williamsburg. I found myself in philadelphia in september of 1774. What a remarkable assemblage that was. Its important that everyone remember that it is a miracle that anything actually happened. We were absolute strangers to each other. At the time of that very first meeting, we had 13 different armies. We had 13 different currencies. We had 13 different economies. I think nine of the congress had standing navies. We were absolute strangers to each other with different customs. So it was absolutely remarkable. But to the original question, the Virginia House of burgesses was very fully engaged in the struggle that led to the war for american independence. So much so, general, lest we forget that the next year when i did have that opportunity to finally attend the congress in philadelphia that spring and summer of 75, that virginia rose further to the forefront and calling for an American Army. Remember, we had heard nothing from england as we showed our respect with an Olive Branch Petition in order to seek a reconciliation, and as well, having formed an army to send you, if you will, the necessity of taking up arms. That we realized that necessity could be a no one else is hands but yours, general. I will never forget. I will never forget that spring and summer of 75 when we brought all of those militia together to form an American Army and who else to lead us. Who else to receive the First Commission as a general one . Neither of us will even forget that if you were born in the counties of britain, you could never rise to the rank of general and the british army. Only colonel. As i said, no one else could have fulfilled that commission but yourself. When i was commissioned by the congress, yourself included, i was scared to death. I had led a regiment, i had never let an army. I remember sitting in my boarding rooms when i was not involved with meetings from the congress i was reading everything i couldnt strategy. I understood tactics fairly well, but certainly not strategy. I remember standing up. I could not even walk to the day as if you recall. I stood up in front of my chair and accepted the commission. When i sat down, everyone in that room knew that our world, perhaps the world, would never be the same again. Yes. Youve always been honest, general. Youve always been distinct and direct upon your feelings, at least with me. And how well we both know that courage and valor can only be supported by one questioning themselves and a better understanding the risk that they take, but that the risk is so worthy for the greater good. Madam, have you another question . Yes. General washington mr. Jefferson, we know you served in the cabinet together in the first cabinet. What are some of your thoughts about some of the strong differences of opinion amongst the cabinet members in the first. . I think they referred to it as internal dissensions tearing us apart. But it was not always such the case. You know that i selected my cabinet members based on their ability to Carry Forward the establishment of the major departments that they are responsible for. Mr. Jefferson as my secretary of state, he was a man of letters and a man of education. Forgive me if i embarrass you. He had plenty throwing john adams and not to mention, 1784 to negotiate commercial treaties with european powers. Following, yeah believe in 1785, he succeeded. Youre quite, correct general. He took a leave of paris to return to our country and happily to be there as soon as can be the Constitutional Convention over which you, sir, and another, in my opinion, services excessively as the president. Well, your kind but i didnt stop watching your accomplishment. While he was minister friends who negotiated a commercial treaty with pressure, and a Consular Convention with friends. This is a man who had diplomatic ability, so it was appropriate to pick mr. Jefferson as my secretary of foreign affairs, but you might reform to as the secretary of state, and in the beginning, final hamilton Esther Jefferson agreed they were eventually friends, if you can imagine but things began to bifurcated quickly between the federalists and the anti federalist. Now by way of explanation in the broadest of terms, federalist supported ratification of the constitution, a strong, Central Government time to interests. I dont think it is an oversimplification to say that anti federalists distrusted centralized power. They favored strong states rights. So, this is where the problems arose and the internal conflict because, to their opponents, the federalists were really monarchists whose affection for Great Britain would lose any gains we had made the report and, to the opponents of the anti federalist, they were considered radical democrats, and would have the same results turning us away from our outcome in the american were gonna pendant so this did not bode well for americans. Im sure you have your own perspective on, it thomas but it is challenging find areas looking back in which mr. Jefferson and colonel hamilton were in complete agreement, but they did exist. They both agreed on an educated and informed citizenry, and agreed on a national currency. They agreed on the establishment of a service to guard our host. I beg your pardon, general hamilton referred to the necessity of a coast guard as a necessity for revenue cutters. I referred to it as the necessity for the militia bows to protect and defend our coastline, but with all due respect, your excellency, you are absolutely correct. At the very beginning, and you referred to him as colonel, if you will recall, he preferred in general, but hamilton and i did agree and we Work Together to agree and advise and consult with you, its as you place your trust hit us to be seated air cabinet and yes, what you are correct that whether you refer to it as federalist or whether you have referred to others as anti federalist, we did believe in the necessity of the Central Government, that the Central Government would be supported by the concerns of the individual states and the purpose of the federal government was to protect and defend all of the states collectively. Now, what im not going to deny, there was a concern of some of us that perhaps was growing in the federal government more, affection more interested in their close ties to the counting houses, more interested in considering the success of british mercantilism to beat our own proper inheritance, i would rather have Place Congress at the forefront rather than agriculture. If you will, elements of stop jobing, speculation, as was beginning to occur under the button would treat their on wall street where the first government was seated and yes, im not going to deny that was the antithesis of what we desired in our revolution. Its desired, if you will, to create a government of, buying for the people, not to create another monarchy or aristocracy or landed jen tree, and these are the conflicts that began to grow within your cabinet and i was certainly aware of, it general, you know that, you know we certainly aware that you with all of your patience and perseverance that had been in exemplified that it could never be exemplified by any other in the pursuit of our victory of American Revolution was the greatest example of virtue, them and you did not want to stand for a second term, the general, and that is why i came to visit you, if you will recall. I do recall quite well. I am struck by your restating of the bifurcation that i spoke of and if this elder statesman can just suggested, its the reality is that we need in the ballots right in between, E Pluribus Unum, out of, 21. That is absolutely appropriate and it is that balance that brings us to what, you know, i have seen firsthand the great bane of too strong a Central Government. Monarchy, you cannot get any stronger than that, and i have also seen the great problems involved in states that had too much in the way of rights, because we could not get it funded for our war. We werent wanting everything and we relied on the states to provide those funds, and that was very problematic. In the middle, there is balance. You spoke of too strong a Central Government. You spoke of two because Central Government, or too strong a state government. But you also just elucidated was the fact that there was a conflict between bankers and manufacturers and the Agrarian Society and here again we need all of it, we need all of it, all sites to come together in the middle and with that that, well, without that we will face problems going forward, and we will lose much of what we have going. If you would allow, with all due respect, we are farmers. Nine out of every ten americans reside on farms. They, engage as you have heard me say so often, one of the two most noble locations of mankind. The one, farming, the cultivation of the soil, and the other, the cultivation of the mine and therefore if we allow commerce and merchandizing, mercantilism, particularly speculation, that is one that will draws further and further from the sustenance of any nation and the sustenance in that providing directly for the family, for his neighborhood, for the nation and the world and i beg your pardon but i know you hear me express it so often and i will nevertheless in the future, agriculture should receive our first attention will. You are speaking to a man who considers himself first and foremost a farmer. I dont need to remind you of that but im here to suggest to you at the strongest of terms that the success of this nation lies in the balance between the two of those. That is it. Perhaps we shall move onto another question. Your excellency . We do have a question from the audience. Are you both live on plantations supported by its slave labor. Maria wants to know how you felt about keeping people its laid versus freedom for all people. The only avoidable subject, i shall speak briefly but i shall tell you that my comments are by way of explanation, not by way