I first took my seat in the ancient bodin the spring of 1769. I must tell you, your excellency, you were already a legend in my family when i was a young boy. My father, peter jefferson, spoke very highly of you. He as you well know was a surveyor commissioned by the western authority surveying lintz of virginia and beyond. Lands of virginia and beyond. He was a young major. I believe you both sat together in the Virginia House of burgesss, just before he passed away. He passed away in 1757. When i came to the house 12 years later, i had already known of you as a boy that attended the old World College in williamsburg, william and mary and george whiff and practicing law in williamsburg. In fact, general, i do not know whether you remember, but when i was a young man, a good 25 years of age, i had already become a de devote of theater and never missed an opportunity when virginia burg performed in the theater and i believe mrs. Campbell was quite the destiny for you. You enjoyed her ocean repair. That is her fine seafood. There, the two of us, if i remember well, attended a production of the virginia company. I was only, i would venture, 25 years of age, in the spring of 68. I remember you as well are quite a devote of the theater. I am and i did attend theater in the old capitol. I must confess to you at this age i do not actually remember meeting you at one of those but it is very possible. I was hardly dry behind the ears in those early years, general. Like i said, youre younger than myself. Speaking of the Virginia House of burgesss, what are some of the issues that arose and how did they lead with americas break with england . If you will allow me, i shall begin and let you convey the substance of it. I started in 1766. If you will allow an old man to recollect. When ones hair turns white, thats what one does. I remember a story by colonel mason to mrs. Washington, pretty much my first attendance to the house. I was in the french war. I was in the hall, they called it the hall of Virginia House of burgesses. All members rose and gave me standing acclaim. I was expected to return that acclaim by making a speech. Forgive me, but colonel mason told mrs. Washington that i blushed red like a virgin and was completely tongtied. It was at that point the old speaker robinson to his staff on the floor and said, you may sit down, colonel washington because it is obvious to all that your modesty is equal to your bravery. That said, i would tell you innovative or routine speaker at the Virginia House. I sat with younger ones, mr. Jefferson and others as well and many older wiser members of the house, speaker robinson and mr. Randolph and mr. Whitten. The Virginia House of burgesses was very entrenched. In the 1760s, the house had the Sole Authority to tax virginians. In may of 1774 close to the outbreak of the war as well, at the last session of the house, you mentioned it, mr. Jefferson, i remember we called for fasting and prayer, in support of what was happening at that time. The boston citizenry was subjected to strong discipline by the following. It was at that time what you ref reynolds forefathers the governor promptly dissolved the house of burgesses, and we just met the next day. We signed a number of documents and continued to support the war. Truth be told, the Virginia House of burgesses never fully meets in full again. You might want to add to this, mr. Jefferson. I remember vividly your speaking, once i took my seat in this house of burgesses. There was one concern immediately after the next and i recall after we heard about the closure of the port of boston retaliation by the crown because of the socalled tea party in Boston Harbor and i always thought those that enjoyed the tea party were the fishes of boston. Remember, that was a riot and destruction of private property, however, with just cause. When we learned of the atrocious method by which the crown would close down the entire port to publish all the inhabitants of amazed bay, we wouldnt let it pass in virginia. You are absolutely right we cooked up, as i have written, a resolution for fasting, humiliation and prayer. They were not very happy with the call. If i remember, general, if i remember, the evening before, governor dunmore rode to the capitol of williamsburg, all bedecked in state to dissolve us, as was the royal prerogative, if i am correct in regular, did you not share a meal with the governor at the old royal palace . You are correct, i did, hoping to diffuse his response, to no avail. It was to know effect. You were present. I remember distinctly in the old raleigh tavern when my late cousin, peyton randolph, speaker of the house of burgesses at the time, decided we all ought to gather together, virginia and massachusetts, 600 miles distance and to be accompanied by our sister colonies, not in virginia, as a virginian would want it nor in massachusetts, but midway between the northern and southern colonies to meet in philadelphia. General, i wish i had been there at that First Congress, september of 74, but i fell ill. I was not able to go, but you were there, the very First Congress of all of the colonies. I always envied that about your history, along with so many other things that have continued to remain an inspiration for me. If you remember, thomas, it was only months earlier, all of us in virginia believing if these had happened anywhere else, the governor confiscated the black powder and weapons and magazines in williamsburg. General, if you will, i beg your pardon, you know i do that frequently, im having a difficulty being able to hear you. Might you speak just a tad louder . I shall, i shall. I was saying it was months earlier the governor confiscated the black powder and weaponry and magazines in williamsburg. I found myself in september of 1774, what a remarkable ass assembliance that was. It was a miracle anything actually happened because we were absolutely strangers to each other at the time of that very first meeting, we had 13 different armies, 13 different currencies, 13 different colonies. Nine of the colonies had standing maybes. We were absolute strangers to each other with different customs. It was absolutely remarkable. To the orginal question, the Virginia House of burgesses was fully engaged in the struggle that led to american independency. So much, general, we forget the next year when i finally had the opportunity to attend the congress of philadelphia that spring and summer of 75, virginia rose further to the forefront calling for an american army. Remember, we heard nothing from england as we showed our respect with an olive branch seeking reconciliation and offering to send an army for the necessity of taking up arms and we realized that necessity could be in no one elses hands but yours, general. I will never forget that spring and summer of 75 we formed a militia to form an army and who else to lead us in the First Commission as a general. Neither of us will ever forget if you were born in the colonies of britain you could never rise to the rank of general in the british army. Only colonel in militia. General, no one else could have fulfilled that commission but yourself. I dont know if i discussed this with you, thomas. When i was commissioned by the congress, it was concluded, i was scared to death. I had let an regiment and never led an army. I remember sitting in my boarding rooms when i was not involved with meetings from the congress, and i was reading everything on strategy. I understood tactics good but not strategy. I could not even walk to the dias, if you recall. I accepted the commission. When i sat down, everyone in that room knew that our world, perhaps the world would never be the same again. Youve always been honest, general, youve always been distinct and direct with your feelings, at least with me, and how well we both know courage and valor can only be supported by one questioning themselves and better understanding the risks that they take, but that the risk is so worthy for the greater good. Madam, have you another question . Yes. General washington and mr. Jefferson, we know that you served in the cabinet together, the very first cabinet. What are some of your thoughts about some of the strong differences of opinion amongst the cabinet members in the first cabinet . I think they referred to it as internal dissension tearing us apart. It was not always such the case. I selected my cabinet members based on their ability to Carry Forward the establishment of the Major Department this is an are responsible for. Mr. Jefferson, as my secretary of state, he was a man of letters and man of education, forgive me if i embarrass you, thomas. He has already joined john adams and dr. Benjamin in paris in 1874 to contribute to the european powers. The following year, i believe it was 1775, you succeeded dr. Franklin, is that right, thomas . Yes, you are. Thats quite correct. He took leave of paris to return to our country and happily to be there as soon was convened the Constitutional Convention over which you served, and none other, in my opinion, served so successfully as the president. Youre kind. I didnt stop watching your accomplishments. While he was minister of france he negotiated a constitution with prussia. It was appropriate to pick mr. Jefferson as my secretary of foreign affairs, what you might refer to as secretary of state. In the beginning, colonel hamilton and mr. Jefferson agreed, they were actually friends, if you can imagine. Things began to bifurcate fairly quickly betwixt the federalists and democratic republicans and antifederalists. By way of explanation in the broadest terms. Federalists supported ratification of the constitution, a government type of commercial interests. I dont think its an oversimplification to say antifederal lists favored strong states rights. This is where the problem arose, and the internal conflict within my cabinet, because to their opponents, the federalists were really monarchists, if truth be told, whose affection for Great Britain would set aside, would lose any gains we had made in our war for american independence. To the participants of the antifederalists, they were considered radical democrats and had a zeal for the kingdom of france would have the same results would turn us away for a positive outcome for american independence. This did not bode well for america. Im sure you have your own perspective on it, thomas. It is challenging to find areas looking back in which mr. Jefferson and colonel hamilton were in complete agreement. They did exist. They both agreed on an educated informed citizenry and agreed on National Currency and establishment of the Revenue Service to guard our coasts, a few other things as well. I beg your pardon, general hamilton referred to the necessity of the coast guard as the necessity for revenue cutters. I referred to it as necessity for militia boats to protect and defend our coastline. With all due respect your excellency, you are correct. At the very beginning, you referred to him as colonel. If you remember, he preferred general. Hamilton and i did agree and we worked together to agree and advise and consult with you as you placed your trust in us to be seated in your cabinet. Yes, you are correct, whether you referred to it as federalists or whether you referred to others as antifederalists, we did believe in the necessity of a Central Government, that the Central Government would be supported by the concerns of the individual states, and the purpose of the federal government was to protect and defend all the states collectively. I will not deny there was a concern of some of us that perhaps it was growing in the federal government a faction more interested in their close ties to the counting houses, more interested in considering the success of british mercantilism to be our own proper inheritance, and would rather have placed commerce at the forefront rather than agriculture. If you will, evidence of stock jobbing, speculation, as was beginning to occur under the buttonwood tree there on wall street, where the first government was seated. Yes, im not going to deny it. That was the antithesis of what we desired in our revolution, that we desired, if you will, to create a government of, by and for the people, not to create another monarchchy or air stockcracy or gentric. These are the controversies that began to grow in your cabinet. I was certainly aware of it, general, you know that. I was aware of you with your patience and perserverence exemplified and never could have exemplified than any other in the pursuit for the american revolution, was the great example of virtue. You did not want to stand you did not want to stand for a second term, general. That is why i came to visit you, if you recall. I do recall quite well. I am struck by your restating of the bifurcation that i spoke of. If this elder statesman can just suggest it, the reality is we needed the balance right in between. You had said epleurabis uno. It is that balance that brings us to that one. I had seen first hand during the war of american independency the great bain of too strong a Central Government, a monarchy, you cannot get any stronger than that. I have seen the problems of states with too much in the way of rights because we could not get some data for our war. We were in want of everything and relied on states individually to provide those funds. That was very problematic. In the middle, theres balance. You spoke of too strong a Central Government, you spoke of too weak a Central Government. The stronger state government. What you also just elucidated was the fact there was a conflict between bankers and manufacturers and the gregorian society. We need all of it. We need all of it, both sides to come together in the middle. Without that, well, without that, we will face problems going forward. We will lose much of what we had gained. General, if you will allow, with all due respect, we are farmers. 9 out of every 10 americans reside on farms. You have heard me say so often, one of the two most noble vocations of mankind, one forming the cultivation of the soil and the other the cultivation of the mind. Therefore, if we allow commerce and merchandising, mercantilism and speculation, that is want to draw us further and further from the cultivation of the soil and directly providing for the farmer and the nation and the world. I beg your pardon. I know you hear me express it so often. I will nevertheless, in the future, agriculture will receive our first attention. Congress has ias its handmaid. You are speaking to a man who considers himself first and foremost a farmer, i dont need to remind you of that. I am here to say in the strongest of terms this nation lies in the balance to opposing sides. That said perhaps we should move on to another question. Youre right. We do have a question from the audience. You both live on plantations supported by slave labor. Maria wants to know how you feel about keeping people enslaved versus freedom for all people. The only avoidable subject of regret. I shall speak briefly, but i shall tell you that my comments are by way of explanation, not by way of excuse. I have written the institution of slavery is an abomination, and i believe that it is irreconcilable in a democrat republic. That said, i inherited my first slaves when i was a lot of 11 years of age, when my father died. I didnt think much more of them than i did the chair im sitting in right now. They were property. But it was actually mr. Jefferson that once said, and if im saying this incorrectly, please correct me, man of 50 cannot wear the same clothing as a boy of 15. We evolve and we grow and we change. I have done so in my own thinking on the matter. I had said back in 1778, that i want to be quick of this business. I said in 1786 that i never mean to possess another slave through purchase. I want nothing more than to see laws adopted through proper legislation for the slow and the sure abolition of this subject. Personally, i have made arrangements to try and rectify this terrible mistake that i made. But they are of a private nature. General, i have heard you express these sentiments many many times. We certainly have never forgotten what we were able to show the rest of the world, not only Great Britain, those who looked upon us as a mongrel population of radical revolutionaries in north america, that we were able to bring together 13 individual nations. You expressed earlier how distant and despaired all those former colonies were, the difference of religious opinion in one versus a vast difference in another. The difference of free holders prompt of one versus the greater number of free holders in another. Our point at hand, there was slavery in all of those former colonies. We brought ourselves together through a founding principle we must never forget, compromise, compromise and resolution, not only behalf of our generals safety and not only on behalf of common defense but most importantly common good. That is inherent in the first paragraph of our constitution, the drafting which over which you so noblebly presided. My feelings upon this barbous institution of slavery are no less of a concern than yours, no less of a lament than yours. No less of my inheritance than yours. As you know, i have increasingly referred to my family, in particular, inoculating 70 or 80 of my family. I say this distinctly, because throughout all of these generations, inheriting of ourselves, one and the other, slave and master, we are representative nearly, i would say entirely of a world i used in our declaration, consengrenity. It means relationship, it means blood. It is very very difficult to understand how we may be able to extricate ourselves from this. It has been too long in our inheritance. It must be. You know how i feel about that, i expressed and dr. Franklin expressed and mr. Madison, and we know general hamilton. So, i, too, no less than yourself, cannot make excuses. I hope i provided a clarity, and i cannot, cannot condone it. I know for myself, general, the future will be harsh upon me and they have every right to be. You know, thomas, i was listening to you speak, and i was thinking it is my fervent hope that our guests can, at the very least, understand the context of our time. Both of us as younger men read about the ancient romans and the ancient greeks. Sometimes we would, in our reading wonder, what were they thi