On jefferson between 1809 to 1826. I work with a total of ten people to do that. Our job is to take jeffersons letters and papers and produce an authoritative edition for those years that will enable future scholars to rely on that and not have to go back to the originals. So then, what exactly do you do as a documentary editor . One of the most important things is to make it clear what we are not. You hear of a documentary editor and you think either that you are creating film documentaries, and we have in fact have people apply for jobs who were baffled at first because the application was all about how they could splice film, and that was not what we were after. We are also not editors like in a newspaper, would take an who would take an incoming letter to the editor and market through and make all sorts of corrections. Our job is to give as accurate a representation of the materials that we are editing as possible, so as to convey what was on the handwritten page to the reader so the reader doesnt have to go back and read it again. Part of our job is to create an accurate transcription of the letter, or paper, and the other part of the job is to annotated dust to annotate it so our , readers can understand what they are reading without telling too much so that it gets lost in all of our commentary. We try to steer in between. So when and how did the , papers of Thomas Jefferson project get started . The papers began back in 1943 in honor of the bicentennial of Thomas Jeffersons birth. There had been four earlier editions of jeffersons collective papers. None of them were very good. The Founding Editor in princeton, a great man named julian boyd, started this new project to create the authoritative edition of jeffersons papers. They did two things that were new to documentary editing and which kind of both became standbys for how the work is now done. One is that we are including all of the letters to jefferson as well as the letters from him. Up to that point, that was not how it was done. And there was a tendency, now it seems obvious because you can not understand the letters hes writing if you dont have the c is reading, but at that point there was a tendency to not include those. The other thing boyd, the first editor, did was look for all known copies for every letter to and from jefferson. Up to that point, there was a tendency to just take a big collection of papers and work from that. But he realized that to understand, to get a full picture, you need the copies that were retained as well as those that were sent. So in jeffersons case, we have lots of letters that he kept for himself. If you dont have the letter but that went out the door, you , dont necessarily have the post script he might have added. Or, an incoming letter, he might if it is have drafted the other you might have a draft at the other end that will tell you all kinds of things about how the letter was composed. That is how it got started in 1943. The goal was to do all of the important jefferson material from that period on. The original plan was to get everything done in about ten years and 40 volumes. Here we are much later because it turned out to be a much bigger job that anyone could have anticipated. But we are still doing that work. [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2020] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] it started in princeton. Theyre still working in princeton. They are doing wonderful work there and are roughly halfway into his presidency. What brought us here to jefferson was not even president yet. And they try to figure out a way to get the job done much sooner. So, they negotiated a great would justprinceton continue working on the period they were working on through the presidency and we would take on about half of the remaining documents, that was the retirement. So we are responsible, as i 1809 to 1826. We think is going to take about 24 volumes just for that period. Overall, its going to take Something Like 90 volumes to get from start to finish and include all the material we want to include. Can you tell us a little bit more about this retirement series that you are working on . Well, its a period that, in some ways, of course we would think that, we think its the best period to work on a ball. Its a period when jefferson is finally released from what he calls the shackles of public office. He was able to come back to monticello and just settle down and work on everything that interested him. He could write about everything that interested him. So we are able, on any given day, we might be working on a letter about agriculture or a letter about politics or a letter about science or a letter about greek and latin. The incoming material is also fascinating for this period. Jefferson is known to be this kind of sage in retirement. People write him on all sorts of topics. Inventors write him frequently with ideas theyve got and they want him to comment on. You also get your occasional anonymous writer. You get lots of people who think that jefferson has a lot more money than he does, hoping he will get the money. The best thing really, though, is some of the exchanges he has with people like john adams. Its one of the great treasures of this correspondence ever. Getting everything worked out before they die. Its also a period in which jefferson found the university of virginia, one of his great achievements. Its also a period in which jefferson sells his library to the nation after the libraries burned. He helps turn the library of congress from a legislative reference tool to a great cultural institution. Its a wonderful period and we are very happy. We are now about two thirds of the way through and every day is equally interesting for us. Show thats a high volume of content with lots of different topics. Natalia, who is watching our live stream, wants to know how do you catalog the letters . Its clearly a big task. Show our series is chronologically organized. Thats really the only way you can keep track of something theres possible ways to organize it, but the only way you can maintain some kind of consistency is to were chronologically from start to finish. There are some documents that dont really fit into a chronological context and they go into the jefferson paper second series. That has things like his literary commonplace books or his ex experts from that the gospel. We also devote a great deal of time to creating useful indexes to the work. That gets subject entries and persons names. Now we are in a world where there is a digital addition as well. Edition, there are particular advantages to have that because you can have internal references that just linked to a different place. When jefferson says i am responding to your letter of the seventh, we can have a live link that you can click and get taken to that letter. Jefferson himself, kept himself organized, he had a journal in which he logged in every letter he received. Can you imagine a man for 40 odd years, including as president , logging in and out all of his junk mail. That is immensely valuable for us because it lets us know what we have, what we dont have. Jefferson when he received a letter, he endorses it with the date he received it. So we are able, and this is true for very few other people of this period, we are able to know what he when he received it as well as when it was sent. So you can kind of turn that around and see recreate his mail path. See what he got on the day and what he is responding to. Great. So what are some of the steps and taken jeffersons letters in taking jeffersons letters and getting them ready for publication . The first and most important step for me is to have a Wonderful Team that i work with. We have a team, a total of ten people, who do this work. We we have found that in order to not get in each others way, we divide ourselves into or three teams. A team that works on the individual volume and a team that provides all sorts of essential support. We take the document, we verify the text, but first its transcribed for us by one of our people and checked that way. The most important thing is it goes through one of our teams that creates a volume. That team will first verify the transcription. It will do that with at least three character for character word for word proofings against the original manuscript. There are two ways to do that. You can do it by one Person Holding the copy, the original, and checking it, working their way down the page. Or two people, one reading aloud to the other holding the original. We have found that each has its advantages, so weve decided to do it both ways. We have two person editing teams working on adjacent volumes so that the team that means a team can have two people on the team doing all the proofing and dividing up and also verifying it individually. They also then provide the initial annotation of the document. I said the goal is not to over annotate. We call it the lean and mean method. To take an example, if there is a reference to the big fire in philadelphia last week, we will annotate that by finding a newspaper account and being able to say more of what happened in that fire. We dont follow that up with a long discussion of 19th century firefighting and secondary sources. That is the job of the reader. We also do not want to write a lot of annotation that will be superseded by the next generation. We do explain obscure terms you cant understand and we account for missing documents this way. After that, it comes to me as battered are doomed the editor to do my review. My main job is to sort of smell a rat if i can find one. But but also to kind of smooth out the language so that we dont have, so its not really obvious that one team wrote one thing and the other team wrote something else, but to give it a consistent style. When i am done with that, we editor we have editorial assistance who do very important work checking to make sure that what weve said in our voice is accurate. Just as we dont trust our verification that has been checked several times, we dont trust our annotations until theyve been checked by another set of eyes. After all of that, all the editors sensory the whole volume volumeor read the whole and try to see what weve left out or what one team has already said so we can sort of sort out any discrepancies like that. When it is smoothed out that way, it goes to our press and then it goes through a whole other year of going through page proofs. They come to us and we read that character for character against the original again to make sure that nothing got messed up in translation. Also, that is where we produce our index. The index is where we do basically, it carries a lot of the weight them for the annotation of volume. At the end of that, it ultimately takes two years to get the volume from transcription to submission to the press and another year to get it all the way through. But but because we have these teams, we are able to get a volume a year in press into print every year and weve been doing that since we got our first volley mount. Volume out. Were hoping to maintain that until we are done hopefully in 2027. Ted wants to know if there is a relationship between this project and the adams letter team. Are there ever disagreements amongst documentary editing teams about how to interpret different letters . Thats a really great question. The fact is that we are part of the movement that has been going on for decades now to create additions like this for all of the Founding Fathers basically. We are, in fact, part of a consortium called Founding Fathers papers which is responsible for washington, Thomas Jefferson, john adams, James Madison and benjamin franklin. Also Alexander Hamilton was part of that originally. These and other additions like that are responsible for basically making all of Early American History accessible to the reader without having to go and try and read the original documents. We are in close contact with our friends at the atlas papers and some of these other places. We we use their volumes when they are out ahead of us and vice a versa. We arent usually working on a document at the same time. So most of our disagreements are in how we handle a document. We we dont do gotcha in the values volumes that we print, but we will do it our way and we will tell them that they might want to put it into theirs and certainly the opposite is for us. Most of our differences are not so much disagreeing about how it was transcribed. Theirs will go into another direction and they may have annotated something somewhere a great excluding massive material that was routine and formulaic, but was not imperative to jefferson himself. That exclusion comes into play mostly for our friends at princeton because while hes president hes giving lots and lots of ships passports and land grant and things like, that officers commissions that is just going to sign that ability just anything about jefferson to the solution there would be to print a single example of one but not to try to track them all down because theyre not really important for us. Period, that rule, everything, legitimately jeffersonian means we tend either print or in a few cases, somewhere, else all the jefferson material letters come in that he writes and most of letters he receives. Occasionally we have left, one we have noted, rather than printed one, because it is really a very routine letter of transmittal, i have received your letter, i am passing it along but the rule is definitely not that it can be, very long material we are still printing and also very short material. Something in agonized vote and finally printed was a serious letter, of short notice, the jefferson sends off to emergent in town and jefferson will sometimes take a very small scrap paper, i just read a few words on and saying something he wants and send it off to this merchant, and we debated over whether we should actually afford these the full dignity of a letter and print them. We finally decided we really need to because teaches us so much about jefferson and the material culture and what hes ordering and finishing monte carlo with, as some even can be quite significant. One of my favorites is a letter he writes to leads where in the whole letter reads him, closed for liberal, such as he shall choose, and it is interesting because he is saying the jefferson slave butler come can go into the store and get whatever needs First Clothing and it is not smollett of forehead, and that is different than he is that his relationship with others where he would say they have a cake for this person. So this it has interesting implications for jeffersons relationship with the enslaved. Next question. So, along the same lines just as you are talking, about isnt more difficult to find letters between jefferson and enslaved people, and when you do find, them how do they fit into his larger correspondence . Well, sadly there are very few letters between jefferson and the enslaved i want to cello or really anywhere else, anything we can find we are certainly going to print. We are really only aware four hour period of two correspondents to jefferson. One one is john hemmings, the enslaved carpenter and jefferson has quite a robust correspondence with him at one point because jefferson is at monte carlo and hemmings is win at jeffersons other home and so, jefferson is receiving in writing lots of letters to hemmings, basically specifying what he wants done in the construction of public forest so, these are really important interesting letters. One of the more interesting things about it is that jefferson routinely begins his letters sir or dear sir, and jefferson was in a bit of a bind in terms of his letters to hemmings, because jefferson had very unfortunately different views about the status of the enslaved and he did not im sure want to call them either sir or dear sir and his solution was to use a different formula. The only other letters we have from an enslaved person are a single letter from hannah at poplar forest, who wrote a very nice letter once just expressing her concern about his health. We dont know if there were others, but this is what we have. We know that very few will letter it but enough more were , letter that there is reason to think that he might have gotten some short notice that we just dont have. Speaking of correspondents that we dont have, we have thousands and thousands of letters that jefferson wrote, but we know it is not all. Can you talk to us a little bit about jeffersons letters that are missing and how they are sought, after, and what happens when you find those letters . That is a great question. Jefferson it can get into that another time. We know what we are missing. Say we are missing only about 10 . We have 90 of the Court Jefferson correspondence for s period and in fact thanks that polygraph machine of his, there were two ways for his letters to survive because they would be the one that he sent and the one he kept. We know we are missing that percentage and we sometimes can find more of them. Every library and collector in materials we now have from about 1000 different collections. Again morey now and material comes up and there are two ways that new material will appear. Usually on the market, although occasionally someone will just get in touch with us and say they have a jefferson document we dont have and i will take this method and say, if you have you do not document think we have, please let us know because we are always looking for more material. We have an idea of where to look that may not have occurred in the general search and we have occasionally located a new item that way area for example, we had a missing letter that jefferson had received from a man named Thomas Cooper on the subject of an of education. We do not have the letter because jefferson received it was crippled on and the men said he would publish it at some point. Jefferson sent it back to him in this crippled form and we do not have it, but we were eventually able to find where the men had it and we found it there and it was published and printed that way. So we have all sorts of methods to try to track down the material we are missing. Says that there is something we should not have, we are able to account for that with other documents. Instead of waiting for the last volume to come out, there is material that turns of after the volume came out. Include documents and supplemental documents as well as mistakes. We do make mistakes and we are able now to correct them digitally as well. We are just about to submit a supplement in the near future. Natalia who is watching our life humid like to know if jefferson wrote letters in Foreign Languages, maybe spanish or french. He was fluent in several languages. However, jeff