Events during the cold war, as well as the continuing threat of nuclear conflict. Watch tonight at 8 pm eastern, and enjoy American History tv every weekend on cspan 3. Ministration c former Homeland Security talked about the danger in delaying the president ial transition of power, other examples of transitions after close elections and had the Biden Administration can prepare to take office in january. Good afternoon everyone and welcome to another move burner. This one coat produced and organized by the center of transitions for Public Service, and citizens for strong democracy. Im going to moderate todays conversation. Its really a pleasure to have these traffic guests. Provide a important statutory framework for the peaceful transition of power. Its been updated several times since than, and today robin to discuss some of the important pressing issues coming out of that in the current transition and transfer. Its been almost a week since the Major Networks designated job as the president elect. The biden team has been moving forward on a transition and theyve selected and announced the white house chief of staff, have launched a Pandemic Task force, and soon will be announcing other white house at cabinet level official. They started talks with four and a number of American Foreign leaders. A number of republican Senior Leaders have acknowledged the outcome of the election, including george w. Bush, congolese a, race at a handful of other republican senators. And we still havent had a formal concession by President Trump. That may be a personal matter of him continue to fall legal claims in a number of states by my not conceding hes held off a formal assertation that the beginning of the transfer of power should begin. , ascertainment sorry. That is while joe biden is beginning to transition to cabinet, President Trump and his team isnt transferring no, how and real estate to the incumbent team. How big a problem is this . How important is it . Wind does it need to start . When should it start by law and one of the consequences of the delay . Those are some of the questions were going to address today with the panel. We are joined today by michael who served as secretary of Homeland Security under george bush in 2005 to 2009. Before heading up dhs, as a federal judge of the court of appeals on the third circuit. More than a decade as a federal prosecutor, he prosecuted cases of political corruption, terrorism corporate fraud including the investigation of the 9 11 terrorist attacks. He is now a leader of this is the professor of Public Policy at uc berkeley, she served as the 20th president of the university of california. The largest Public Research university, prior to joining the she served as the secretary of Homeland Security from 2019 2013, shes a two term governor of arizona, former attorney general and former u. S. Attorney for arizona, in 2019 she published, how safe are we Homeland Security since 9 11. She earned her degree and her law degree from the university of virginia. And finally, dave from the Carlile Group who also had worked in government in the state department, he is serving in a volunteer role as director for the senator for president ial transition and the partnership of Public Service. Hes also and edge of professor at the school of business in dartmouth, ants at the law firm of covington, he spent 12 years at the Carlile Group and where he recently served as managing director. And he we are really delighted to have this terrific group, let me start with this stalled determination, the ascertainment of what is that and why does it matter . Let me start with dave, since this plays an integral role in connecting transitions now for a couple of cycles, give us a sense of what this ascertainment is. What are they trying to ascertain . And what happens when it happens . Thanks so much, thank you to the mueller sector and to also give my salute to Michael Chertoff who i knew from the Holocaust Museum and also too Janet Napolitano i wish you were still president of university of california because i am on the board and my daughter is that berkeley and i would like her to check in on how her studies are going. Maybe she still has that influence. You struggled with that word ascertainment because it is not supposed to be aware that is commonly known, the issue of ascertaining the winner of an election has never been controversial, it is never been politicized, there is a provision in the 1963 president ial transition act which gives the gsa administrator the responsibility of ascertaining the outcome of the election. There are many other Government Agencies that have similar responsibilities to act when theres any president elect, the secret service on saturday morning significantly expanded their protection around president elect biden because he is president elect biden, that is not a politicize decision. The secret service just of that. Unfortunately, even the most non controversial acts in this world, in this town are being politicized today. This is one of them. The subject, that criteria is basically the criteria is clear, the outcome is clear, all the networks who have called the election, as you said in your piece from last sunday, four states would have to be turned over, and the likelihood of a recount is almost zero, even president bush stated that the outcome is clear. We will get into this, but the gsa should make this ascertainment and then the biden team should be able to have access to all the support which we can talk about more. Let me bring in mr. Michael chertoff and Janet Napolitano because i think the first thing that should be on his mind in a peaceful transfer is who is watching the home front . Is there something in this two month period that poses a threat to the American People and how is that being managed in this gap, and as the ascertainment fool the protection of the American People . I can go first, i think there are two things that are creating risk from a security standpoint. First of all, having a transition that begins right away, getting clearances to the incoming team, giving the president access to current intelligence, these are all part of the process of preparing so that when the administration comes in, they could hit the ground running and not have to figure out with the threats are and what are the capabilities to respond are. We can talk a little bit later about how we handled that when we did the handoff from Bush Administration to the obama administration. Because that was the front of our minds, and we work cooperatively. And we wanted to make sure that we immediately fully briefed the people coming in with obama and how they had access to intelligence information, we even ran exercises about a potential pandemic so we could really get a feel for how things would work in the leaders of government. There is also another compounding problem. We are seeing a purge of security personnel, we have seen the department of defense decapitated, there is rumor about dhs being fired or being forced to resign, that is the problem. Because it means in this window of time, when our foreign and domestic adversaries perceived weakness and opportunity, we are signaling that we are dropping our guard. That is a very risky thing to do. It holds the American People hostage. I dont have much to add, i was going to emphasize first the need to have a smooth hand off from a National Security perspective and not to have any kind of gap. We are fortunate that the president elect has so much experience that even with this delay, he will be able to catch up quickly, but nonetheless, this is an unnecessary risk that President Trump is putting on around the country. And secondly, michaels comment about the removal of the department of defense personnel on their replacement by political loyalists President Trump to keep personnel of the Homeland Security quote, resigned, close quote according to the washington post. These are troublesome moves from key departments that are necessary to protect the security of the American People. If you were to ask me, what is the greatest risk factor confronting the u. S. Today . I would say the greatest risk factor is President Trump. I would like to pivot off that to focus on when we might get the ascertainment so that the biden team can have access to intelligence and processing security clearances. Typically, as we saw in the last transfer to President Trump or as secretary chertoff mentioned the handoff from bush to obama, it happened quickly. And 2004, it didnt happen right away, it happened only after the florida recount. I am curious to get from you and also to hear from secretary chertoff, wet might trigger the ascertain in the days ahead . Where you looking and where you seeing . Is it simply the mounting calls from Republican Leaders ants is it something that happens in the counting of ballots and the certification of the states . It is a little unclear what the trigger will be, the trigger should have been made last week when the outcome was clear. That is the standard under the law. I do think there is a significant shifting of political opinion on this. And perhaps of that growing snowball impact, you are seeing more and more republicans in the senate and the governors saying, we should get this going. In the last few days you have many governors, these are never trump people, and obviously he comes from a state secretary to pull autonomy knows this better than i do, he comes from a state that trump has dominated. And i think obviously arkansas, trump has been very popular. And having governor hutches and say what he said is very important. In the congress i think you see growing concern from republican senators, particularly on the Armed Services and intelligence committees, and then i also think that there is growing awareness of the non the Security Risk, which i think michael and janet articulated. To me, the most important thing right now in the world is the pandemic. And the Trump Administration, they should give credit for something called operation warp speed which is a joint d. O. D. And hhs effort to develop and distribute the vaccine. One would think that every american would want the incoming biden team to have access and start to coordinate with the people responsible for warp speed so that when the biden team takes office, they can move forward to get that vaccine in the arms of 300 million people. That is not a policy issue, that is a logistics issue. One would think that would make sense. I think there is a growing, snowballing effect because people are being educated of risks of not being moving forward. I am hopeful that this can move in the right direction very shortly. I ask her team to put up a slide that is developed by a partnership of the Public Service and get reactions from everyone, you knew this was coming, but this is an assessment in year four of the Trump Administration of the various cabinet agencies and how many key positions have been filled. The darker turquoise line with the percentages lifts how many confirmed officials in key slots. It is a slightly lighter shade of turquoise which is how many have been nominated. We have been put in blue boxes, the are assessment of the five key agencies if theres a National Security crisis and there is a sixth agency which is the one that is equally critical. We have highlighted in red because of the current moment, it is so understaffed. I would just like to get a reflection from you, how important is it to fill these positions quickly, particularly when there is a crisis that is ongoing. How do some of these agencies Work Together in addressing the Coronavirus Crisis or any other crisis . What does the next few months look like as far as filling these positions . I can begin, ironically the problem usually is in it administration with people who are confirmed because they are moving on to their next job. You often find vacancies in the last month. The irony here is that the positions were never felt. So it is not a question of believing, it is question of having them filled. But we have seen with Homeland Security is the absence of confirmed positions that has made it very difficult for the agency to carry out its missions with. The that made it very difficult for the agency to deal with the pandemic and take a leadership role that was actually invasion by the response framework, and that both i occupied in janet occupied when we were in office. It is also creating a sense of polarization as white house staff has increasingly seized the vacancies as an opportunity to micromanage the departments. In the political interest of the president. And that has created a trust deficit. So much of the story of this last administration, and the next couple of months, is a disdain for the workings of government and efficient carrying out of government initiative. Its almost as if its a determination that they want to wreck government, and make it as hard as possible for government to do its job so they can say you see, people in government are bad. The problem is that that is a lot of people dead, as we have seen with the virus. As the new team has come in, has it based the importance of the biden team put people in acting positions to get started and get away with it or is important to go back to the confirmation standard . Particularly when there is a crisis going. I would say this. I believe the biden team will honor the additional norm of getting people confirmed. That depends of course upon if the senate cooperates. If you get a extra press senate that blocks everything that its a different set of problems, to be candid, at some Point Congress has to revisit the documents he prone which was abused over the last several years and needs to be tightened up. One example is when we have the transition from president bush to president obama a number of us who were on the Security Side of cabinet, theres a luncheon in statutory hall immediately after the inaugural ceremony and then the senate went into session and the immediately confirmed a number of members of the obama cabinet, particular only those on the Security Side of the cabinet. We were actually confirmed as we watch the integral parade go by. Thats have two branches of government can cooperate with each other. Thats how you help effectuate a smooth transition of power. Between now and then its a good segue into the confirmation process. What happens before someone gets confirmed and what happens between now and then . Go ahead. Go ahead david. This goes back to ascertainment because this cant go forward. So ron klain, who has been designated chief of staff, he cant get his final security clearance until there is ascertainment. He can get a interim, but not final. What happens is that the president elect will start naming his team, presumably in the next week. Typically it is done in waves of the bunch the National Security professionals. The economic people. The health professionals. As seen those will be the top priorities. Then they starting the people underneath. Here is why, again, asserting municipal portent. I will give you the data. President obama in his first hundred days had twice as many people in their seats as president bush. The bush team, they had a great team. They were experienced. Vice president cheney lead the transition. They are probably the most experienced transition People Living because theyve been involved in four or five transitions each. The bush personnel situation was buttoned up. But they couldnt get everything processed. The security clearance, ethics agreements, working with Agency Ethics on the extremely painful process of divestments, disclosures, refusal, all those things that michael and janet painfully remember from their transition process. Its a painful process to get to the senate, and that can start until ascertainment. So what is best practices to get those people to their seat quickly. It took bush until youre one to get 500 plus. Obama had a little bit less than 500 at the end of the first year. It takes a long time. The faster those can get going, the fast you can get people into their seats the better the American Public at served. We are in for crisis right now. Whether you like biden or you dont like biden, america would benefit from having highly competent people in their seats at the National Security agencies and health agencies, in the economic, agencies as quickly as possible. Thats exactly what secretary turn off and apollo said. Get them in their seats quickly. By the way, audience members are starting to ask questions. If youre inside the zone please send the questions through the queue and a function. I will pose them. Asked, what happened in 2000 when you had a contested election . When did the security briefings candice security briefings begin with a certification of the gsa . The answer is yes. There, president c