Heidi totty and a masters degree from the university of louisianamonroe to which matt says they beat alabama one time some time. So anyways, matts been a park ranger at Petersburg National battlefield, where matt and i first met and worked as a park rangers. Many, many many years ago. Hes worked at natchez vicksburg, manassas and gettysburg. Hes going to tackle the big elephant in room about gettysburg versus which one of these two battles is he considered being a native mississippian and, having worked at both parks, what is he considered be the biggest turning point as a gaithersburg or is it vicksburg . So i will matt get up here and explain. So Matt Atkinson can. Help. Thats what it is. So understand all had a row last night about something right there. Right. The most important battle. Top battles in the American Civil War and gettysburg was left off. Can you believe that . I want to tell you a quick story was invited down to richmond roundtable and we were at the willow oaks club because thats what i rate. We have virginia ham. Thats only time they go out there, i think. But anyway i was having a great and i was in richmond and obviously burke lives there. Burke dunkle lives there who did the top ten last night at and he didnt show to my program so here is what you call poetic justice. A slight i have not forgotten right there. The top ten battles in the in the american war im sure he knows more about the civil war and i do so im sure he didnt leave gettysburg off unintentionally. What is most important battle to matt. I think that would be the relevant question. The most important battle in the civil war to Matt Atkinson is. Wherever Matt Atkinson happens, be working. Maybe, maybe. Thank you very much. Yeah. Yeah, i heard. I would also like to say. To acknowledge the other elephant in the room. And i tell people this gettysburg a lot and caution them if you if you getting into the civil war, if you go to other civil war sites, dont go a Visitor Center and tell them that youve been to gettysburg. Dont tell a park ranger that because they dont want to hear that. All right. Because theyve heard that ive worked at other sites and heard it multiple times, sometimes same time, same day, multiple times. Right there there. I would like to say, though, there are a lot of obviously this emerging civil war conference and so forth. And we have a plethora and that bad for mississippi Public Education right there. A plethora of subjects back there from which for you to choose choose from books etc. Right here and. What is the most important point . I, i could make this lecture. Ladies and gentlemen i mean, just pick two battles and i could have put it up there, you know, but i mean, the list could go on and on. We could put chickamauga up there. We could put we could put chancellorsville all up there. We could put spots of spots sylvania wilderness. I was driving down here and the lady that talks to me on the phone that tells me where to go from time to time. Shes having me drive know past grants headquarters in 1864 and im like, oh is really cool. She must really know what i like. You know, im down here, but i mean, you could argue, you could really argue. I mean, what is the turning point is a big turning point. But let me start by saying that that i do recognize that. Okay, there are other subjects and theres a lot of subjects especially in the western theater. When i say that, i mean mississippi tennessee, those type of even west of the mississippi, theres lot of subjects that are uncovered out there. But the problem is, you know and im supposed to and i sincerely thank the of acw christmas koski for his unbreak idol patience with me in writing this on vicksburg which is almost two 500 words right now. If i remember correctly, maybe about 2000. I dont, but you know where, if and when, if and when that book is ever published, which will obviously be the masterwork on vicksburg. Right there. The problem with it is, though and gentlemen, this does stare this in the face, not going to sell. I didnt say chris right there, but why is it not going to sell because people do not in the same number. Subjects on the western theater that they do on the Eastern Theater, if i could if i could slap on there like vicksburg the gettysburg of the west. Honey, you know, i would i would like i would sell 10,000 more copies about it. So the first thing i want to do when we in stepping off into this mine field right here, is having everything that i have. I hate to let the elephant in the room, but i dont think really the question is which is more important gettysburg and vicksburg i think i think the relevant question is what what i ponder is why is gettysburg are bigger than vicksburg . Why is that . I mean is anybody really going to debate that with i mean, yeah, were like, yeah, we debate that. But in the american psyche, i dont think theres any debate that gettysburg bigger than vicksburg. Now why is that and something i dont know if im gonna be able to answer today, but well try first things first. Quick overview of both campaigns. I know obviously youre at this conference and you want to be at this conference. If you didnt like the civil war, the gettysburg really doesnt need any in reduction. It is the culmination of all robert e lee battles. Ill just say when i drive through the Fredericksburg Spotsylvania battlefield system, im always thinking how it all interrelate. So im a huge fan of robert e lee myself, and these four battlefields which surround this area would be the are the mecca for me. You know as well as the rangers they like to talk about other too you know from time to. But what is the point. My point is what is the point of robert e lee fighting all these battles in the fredericksburg area . The point is, ladies and gentlemen, hes trying to win the war. And how do you win the war . Well, you could. And robert e lee if youre going to win it through military, then you probably have to win a decisive battle. Virginia saw, or at least a victory on northern soul robert e lee well knows that he can keep whipping the yankees. And i use that word down still in Northern Virginia can keep whipping the yankees time and time. But what does it solve . What does it accomplish right there . And so after the battle of chancellorsville in may of 63, robert e lee is going to get the opportunity he has initiative and he is going to use that opportunity to invade the north. This this map right here does not have mountain ranges on it, but basically swings to the west. He uses the mountain ranges as cover right here. And it is a perfect or avenue open to the north. Once he gets into pennsylvania, he splits his forces up the army is starting to dovetail tail kind of behind him, if you will but theyre not exactly flush with as he comes up and on night of june 28th everything changes for him in little town which if youve got good eyes you can see right over here called Chambers Burg when and show you how history can change on one dime when a scout or spy if you will name patterson. In the very beginning of the movie there in a picket post. I only do like cheesy gettysburg the whole program i did like Robert Duvall better though i must machines got his moment so i when they cheer him on the minute then a few. The chambersburg is where harrison is going to come in and he drops a bomb on robert e lee right gap band. No, no, no. Yall never heard that. Okay, so thats probably what he was playing. Look it up, wicker pta. Itll be on there. Chambersburg harrison comes in and he tells robert e lee, hey, union army. Not in virginia, buddy. Its in maryland. And as the crow, its not that far away from you. The important thing to remember and if i could teach you one thing which this lecture is not about the campaign or any campaign by any stretch of the imagination, but one thing quick, quick, little hitter free because you all pay, which ill pay. Get here anyway. 100 130. Was that what was that Early Bird Special this year. 130 okay, so its worth all 130 bucks right here. All. You of match. Com for 79, 95. But we have in hamburg. Hotdogs. Harrison the scout tells robert e lee that the union army is not north. What most people miss is he robert e lee the union army is moving west and so everything on gettysburg is based off that false intelligence right there. Robert e lee believes the union army is moving behind it, not talking. And so lee calls junction of his forces at gettysburg in order to try to keep the union army on the eastern side, the washington side of the mountains makes right. How about a round of applause . Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. And again, it wasnt too good, was it, greg . And we will it right there. Now, here we have the first day, ladies and gentlemen and i like to say once again, this is not an overview of the battle or any stretch of the imagination. But i like to say that the battle against ends up, which is no big surprise to of you, that study of the battle in a confederate victory. What i like to say summation of the first day, though, is i that is the worst thing that could have possibly happen to robert e lee. Why is that . Because robert lee wins the first day and it sets up the next two days. If he lost the first day he might have got away from it, but he wins. And when youre winning. I dont know if youve ever pulled the slot machine before, but when youre but when youre winning, its fun. You know, when its not its not. Anyway, they chase the forces back through there and then robert e lee, you know, renews the offensive. The next day on second day, he ends up attacking the end of the union line. Places like peach orchard, devils in Little Round Top places that youve all heard of are going to be written into the American History right there. And he comes this close. A couple breaks here. A couple of breaks, you know, like a football game. He might have had a little bit more success, but the union army is fighting hard. I think theyre fighting a lot harder than the confederates estimated that they would in basically the union army holds off on the third day robert e lee. This decides to its you know fourth down and one with 2 seconds left on the clock and he decides to punch it up the gut and we all how that worked out that is known as picketts charge. But it has the american imagination when you talk about the when i talk about the overall subject of versus vicksburg, obviously vicksburg does not have a picketts charge and you like if this is the proper word for if you like the romance of war. I mean how much grander does it get than charge . I cant tell you how times as a boy in mississippi, as where you are you illiterate people over here, how many times in my parents pasture that i walked across the the terrain with my little toy musket and the little rebel flag that the ole miss cheerleaders gave me and i was reenacting picketts charge because thats captured my imagination right there. It was the seminal moment, and i did. I hadnt even read William Faulkner yet. But it ends in defeat. It is a huge debacle ill say that with obviously having read about battle of it, its a bad mistake and it really cant be. I mean, you can all i can offer a whole hours worth of excuses on why i did it but i cant really justify it in the end. Robert ely, if he ran out of options, would hit you head on and we have some books on the seven Days Campaign back there. We some books on the battle of the wilderness. Look at the pattern in robert e lee. He hit head on if he runs out of options. And thats just picketts charge, thats robert e lee. So union army pursues, the confederate army. And heres one of the great what ifs of the American Civil War. I wish i had more time to spend it, but they bottle up the union army, ends up having an opportunity to bottle up lees army next to the Potomac River over here to the left, around a place called williamsport, maryland. And george made you think that. George meade is just one. The battle of gettysburg. I mean, the man was placed in command on june 28th, three days before the battle, and then he goes up against arguably what i dont know whos big right now. Joe montana. So hes still around. Not funny. Okay. How about archie manning. Uh, Southern Miss guy, get bag over there. I see. So i mean, george made. I think hes exhaust it and. Hes. Hes just trying to shoo those old crabs across the river. Hes happy. Say, only go off. Hell go. But has an opportunity to win the war right here. Should he attack. And if theres one thing i try to always to, you know put a little caveat, something you can learn or something. And i want to tell you this little story. Some of you know it. Some of you dont. In the aftermath of the campaign at gettysburg ladies and gentlemen, lincoln was furious. Why . Because he was writing george meade and saying, destroy, destroy him in the war. Right. When lincoln out that meade has allowed lee to escape. He writes a letter and is furious. When lincoln assassinated a couple of years later. That letter is found in his desk and lincoln wrote on the outside it Something Like letter, not sent. And i have remembered that i just got my 20 year pen in the government and my supervisor came wearing it on my uniform and my supervisor told me to take it off. And i said to him, would you send it to me if you want me to wear it . But one thing that lincoln has taught me right here is that i cannot tell how many times i have an email. Try it yourself. And then waited 24 hours before i sent it. And most of the time i send it. Thats what Abraham Lincoln taught me. Now, what about general made general meigs happy with the campaign . He thinks its a brilliant success. He write in his official report. It may be briefly in the defeat of the enemy at gettysburg, his compulsory evacuation of pennsylvania, maryland, comma, and withdrawal from the upper valley of the shenandoah comma. And in the capture of three guns, 41 stands and 13,621 prisoners, 24,000 not semicolon, 24,978 smaller arms were collected on the battlefield. He finds it to be a rounding success. Lincoln dont feel that way. Theres a whole lot of color in between here and grant to the east and so forth. And i could do the whole program on this. But suffice it to say, i do believe that the maids failure to attack williamsport is the start of his demise. You can add in bristow station a little shout out to rob lawson right there, the bristow. Thank you. Thank you very much. You buy the book in the back if youd like. Cant remember what the name of its called, but hes back there ready to sign right now. Cash or check. That made has won the battle. Gettysburg. Now were flipping away. I can tell you the mileage right now, because i just drove it last week. I drove hundred and 50 miles all the way down houston, mississippi. I got five miles within my house right there. I got two twin girls screaming in the back and one boy thats really tired. And im doing 79 miles an hour down highway eight and five miles from the house and up top of hill. And theyre greeting me. Was the mississippi Highway Patrol patrol. So i got pulled over and i said to him. I said i said to i said, you know, i made a detour to montgomery. I went to see Hank Williams, cadillac because ive been telling my girls about my little three year old, about Hank Williams and how they know the story of how he drank too much beer and died in the back of that cadillac and everything. So we went by the grave and everything. So hes im trying to get out of this ticket. So i reach inside my pocket to pull out this Hank WilliamsMuseum Ticket and i hand it to him. He goes, whats this for . You know, hes got the flat hat on and leaning over the window. Im like, im to say a man, ive been Hank Williams museum. He goes, ill be right back. I go, thats the best youve heard all day. It didnt work. Youd like see it . Do youd like to see it is in my car now. There. Hadnt worked out so. You know if if you think about vicksburg if you think about vicksburg or i dont know if this dot is going to show up but probably be better for those in the back where you see the big words Confederate States of america the big which you see states that is where vicksburg, mississippi is. And in a nutshell ladies and gentlemen, vicksburg mississippi becomes the last confederate stronghold. The small shout out to port hudson, the last confederate stronghold on the Mississippi River, the commanders, commander, chiefs, i should say, Jefferson Davis and Abraham Lincoln put a higher priority. Oh, vicksburg, you got remember that vicksburg is daviss backyard. I mean, this is the hometown, folks. So hes obviously very familiar, referred to it as the nail head that the souths two halves together. Abraham lincoln said, see a lot of land these fellows hold, of which vicksburg is the key. The war can never be brought to close until that key is in our pocket. Now, what that ends up doing, and i once again we could do multiple lectures on campaigns on vicksburg, right here there are a lot of failed attempts to take vicksburg. In fact, my masters thesis from the school beat alabama right there wrote a were not at anybodys funeral. You know got in trouble about that comment at look it up. My thesis was own the battle in Chickasaw Bayou which was one of the failed attempts right there and if i ever get around to it ill ill publish too one time my mother has a copy thank thank you very much. She says hello, by the way. She just texted i say she thinks that our name it dead yankees in a swamp. See, i knew that joke would go over well, because i know my crowd and its all about kay blessed kay are equals. I am so. But youll never figure that one out. If you look at this. Right here ladies and yeoman heres campaign of vicksburg. General grant, if you if you watch it unfold it makes a lot sense. But in double quick time, general grant actually starts on louisiana side. He cant his ultimate objective is to get to high and dry ground behind vicksburg. So how do you do that . What mo