Good evening. Welcome everyone. My name is William Sturkey and im pleased to introduce our guests for tonights conversation. My immediate left Daphne Chamberlain, a native of columbus, mississippi and Daphne Chamberlain serves as Vice President for Strategic Initiatives and social justice. And she is also associate professor of history at, her alma mater, the historic Tougaloo College before the opportunity. Before returning to tougaloo as a faculty member in 2013, chamberlain was founding director of the cofa Civil Education Center at jackson state, and she is also served as a scholar consultant for numerous local, state and National Civil rights projects. Her scholarship on childrens activism in the 1960s, civil rights richard lou her left grew up in a biracial family that was spiritually and intellectually guided by parents who were both anticolonialist and culturally affirming. His artwork has been cited in over 40 scholarly books and on the cover of five different books, the most of which chicano art a anthology was included by art news in the top 100 art books of the decade. Lou served for a total of 29 years as Department Chair at three institutions of higher education, and he continues to exhibit while teaching in the department of art at the of memphis. Project. Also a mississippi native up the road in richland is cofounder of the Emmett Till Interpretive Center in sumner, mississippi. He has dedicated his career to ensuring that the tragic story of emmett till is not only remembered but also serves as catalyst for positive change in the state and beyond. He holds a masters degree from the center for the study southern culture at the university of mississippi and is a former monument lab fellow and w. K. Kellogg fellow. So thank you, everyone thank you for being here tonight with. So how well proceed is this as moderator i will lead with some questions for our esteemed panelists and then well dive into some from our audience toward the end of our discussion. If youre watching online, you can submit questions in the live chat on on youtube. With that lets go ahead and get started. Id like to remind our to turn your mikes on please and hold them close to your. Id like to start by getting us all on footing, so to speak. So for each of you, could you talk about what exactly monuments and what do they mean in our society today. Good evening. And thank you all for the opportunity to be here on panel monuments for me. Course, i was joking that i love alliteration, so i have a couple of words when. I think of monuments across the state of mississippi, but a number of monuments that ive visited across the american south, particular. One of those words is remembrance, reflection reconciliation. And last but not least, reading occasion in some instances. So for me, in terms of defining monuments, they arent necessarily relegated a physical structure because. I even think of people being monumental because of the work that theyve done in communities, especially with my work around, the mississippi Civil Rights Movement. But yeah, thats it for me. William is, is when i think monuments those are the words that come to mind too for me. But its not just the physical structures or statues stand. But there are also people who continue to serve as because of the work that theyve done in the legacy that theyve left. Richard. Yes. And also, thank you so for inviting me to be on this august panel monuments. To me as is a way where a region or, a country can create its own image sort of like nation building and expression of power and also to elicit fear and to make sure that and also its a teaching artifact to how to behave how to keep people in line and and and not to transgress against those authority and power. And i would completely agree with daphne that i see people as as well. And also with technology. You know, i think of video as being monument monuments. I think. The beating of rodney king, that video being shown over and over and over and it becomes monumental or the video documentation of january six, where they show it over and over and over and these expressions of power. And so they become monumental, in my mind and also whoever can control these monuments can control meaning, which for me the most critical aspect of monument making and monument retention or destruction. All right, ive got a little bit of a i think everything you said exactly. I would agree with that. For me, i think about in terms of of of peace building studies and think theres a term core called moral imagination, this idea of thinking how do we use arts and storytelling monuments even to process past games. How do you use it in particular they think about it with countries that have gone through civil war, genocide, that the first thing they need is not new infrastructure schools. They need they need the arts they need the storytelling. They need the culture to heal from whatever is taking place. And that those monuments, those are can also lead towards how society is going to rebuild. And so while it can be this control, i think about the confederate t, i think about those type of statues. I also think that they can be used. Reimagining past wounds and creating a narrative for moving forward. So is there much of a difference . Monuments and memorials or even cemeteries . What are the functional differences between monuments and cemeteries or memorials. So that for anyone so, i mean, one thing that comes to mind is, is that were were all trying to honor our dead and how do you do that . And i think one of the opportunities is, is we create a space that we honor all dead, hopefully in a respectful way. Right. And in a to promote a mosaic democracy. Right. That were not lifting one persons dead over another, but were were creating that space. So i dont know about the differences, monuments and memorials and graveyards, but i think a commonality in how we are honoring the people that came before us. And just to add what patrick has stated, i think with regard to honoring those who have died. And were also talking about inspiring who continue to live and continue those narratives of of members of those who have made these these significant sacrifices, the history or historical spectrum. So this thats what i see in kind of like you, patrick. I dont understand, you know, really know the difference between the two, but thats way in which i look at it because of my own familys here is thinking about, you know, all these the people who laid the before me and these are the people who continue to inspire me. And of course, those are the shoulders that i stand on and will be able to have my stand on those shoulders as well. Let me rephrase the question for the artist that i want to point out is often in cemeteries and, memorials, you look down to honor the people who are who are moved. See but in monument so often do i goes up so too to an artists you know considering that fact how would you answer the question. Well, i going to say that the the difference i mean, in my in my in my own brain is like a the difference between private and public imaginary and or the difference between a story, a narrative, you know, where public monuments are part of a larger narrative. Right. And cemetery, those are individual stories. Those are people that we know and love rather than public figures that have participated in these larger events that have actually affected our lives. And so thats the way i see the difference between between those two private and intimate and and larger, larger than life, you know, heroic for one group of people and a non non heroic for others. So i want to ask about some of the harder things about monuments, why theyre so hard. I want to talk about feelings specifically everyone in this room, everyone watching us knows that this is an emotional and very politically charged conversation. Why is that what i mean, can we really sort of tease out why is this so emotional . Oftentimes, people are arguing over a monument those that arent actually connected to own individual families yet. Its just as emotional as if it was your own you know, grandfather or ancestor or whatever. You know, if you want to talk about emotions, politics, whatever. But why are the stakes so high . There are some single issue voters and monument is their single issue that they that they vote on. So why they so important in our society . Why is it so especially in recent years. Ill start. Thank you so i guess ill start with this theres a lot of anxiety around truth. And i think it i see mr. Spears and the audience this evening but i think about a panel that happened several years ago and talking about historical amnesia and how if, you know, its important us to tell the and it course those stories vary from person person. But when we talk about feelings getting involved and of course depending on what monuments mean to you personally politically that is where of course you have this polarized issue that rises or bubbles to the top and it begins to fester. And then it manifests itself in such a way that it would begin to see the actions of people in places like january 6th. So for me, when we think about monuments and the role in which they play day to day and, you know, people are internalized, i think their meaning is is its a very difficult conversation to have, but its a real conversation to be had simply because of the fact that there is so much controversy around the conversation and in 2009, i did a performance i wrote and directed performance at the it was called then Nathan Bedford forest park in memphis, tennessee. And and after the performance we had a Panel Discussion similar to this at the the powerhouse gallery. Now defunct and and some of the sympathizers of the confederate monuments were there as part of the discussion. And this woman stood up and said that she had personal relationship to forrest. She would say that general forrest helped her family or ancestors get over a difficult time in their lives. And so she felt a very personal connection to general forrest. But at the same time, for people that have been marginalized and people of color, that symbolism, negation, right and is a and its a negation of who we are, who we and what we strive to be. And so in same room, those two opposing viewpoints were created, an incredible dynamic in regards to the conversation of how can one exist right in the same space as the contrary notion. So its a very i mean and i think and i dont mean to speak on her, but her worldview was wrecked. And if that world view was removed, then how could she situate herself in regards to how she relates to everyday life in the same for me, my worldview to exist in in contrast in opposition to what Nathan Bedford forrest stood for. So its existence is a threat to me. I to admit ive read a lot about Nathan Bedford forrest. Ive never heard about him as a friendly or a help here. So thats a new one. But thank you. Depends on the neighbor. So you really get these are these are really thought provoking for for me im thinking through that that we dont argue well we dont debate. Well i the alluvial collective which is based here in jackson uses something called the Welcome Table where you engage in conversation around difficult i think that is a really good first step but were also hearing the two museums, the Civil Rights History Museum and mississippi, where weve got our traveling exhibit and the Emmett Till Center upstairs and we put up a historical sign marker, the. One to where emmett till, a 14 year old child, his body came out of the Tallahatchie River and someone thought that the way to debate that, whether that memorial be there, was to shoot it up. And the first one was put up in 2018 was thrown in the Tallahatchie River, the second was shot. So many times that you cannot read the writing on it. And then the third one was shot. And then some students, my alma mater, university of mississippi, stood in front of it with guns. And so i think on one side, im like, oh, we just need to argue better, you know . And then the other, there are people with guns using that their way to communicate. And so. I would hope we will lean into a better angels and we figure out a way to communicate with words. But it is it is definitely i mean, even for a 14 year old child. Right. And you feel like you feel so threatened that that you have to destroy you sign it. We got to do a lot better, thats for sure. You know that. That brings me to my next question, which is very much related. But so from the top down, theres a lot of silence related to conversations like this even even this panel, this the past few days in mississippi. I get the feeling there are some people that dont want panels like this necessarily happen. And thats not unique to this state. But thats across the united states. And then, of course, there are also different laws that are banning divisive, i think is the most common phrasing. But its an odd thing because the monuments are everywhere. Theyre around us, the streets and the statues and the buildings. Theyre everywhere. You can barely turn around. And there are counties named people like Nathaniel Bedford forrest. But then at the same time, despite their omnipresence, were not allowed to talk about them in some. If you speak about them and you want to work the state or you want to run for politics, that could into your career. So i have to questions first, what do you make of that Observer Mission . And then second is what sort of a message does that send to children . What sort of a message that send if were thinking future oriented about what monuments we deserve, you know, how do we reconcile the work that needs to be done based on that reality reality. I jump in. Yes, silence is a almost been a great year. Grew up in the city, Jackson Metro originally was. Thats close enough. Whereas born and you know i grew up in kind of a postracial lens right and we didnt about race or you know confederate statues anything like that because we we had past it and we werent going to talk about it. And so, yeah, it feels like were entering a new phase. I mean, for sure, the that we we do in the mississippi delta to honor and until there was a 50 year silence where nobody publicly mentioned emmett till 50 years and it wasnt until a highway memorial sign was put up route 25 and immediately wrote kkk on it. So yes i mean it feels different ways of silencing. I think at one point there was just so much power and control that, you know, no alternative story to be told. And as the as were as as were their muscles and telling more inclusive stories, there seems to be fairly new ways to silence. But i think were finding new ways to communicate to i mean built a Smartphone App after signs got shot up and you know theres weve responded with traveling bit so i think theres authoritarianism and silencing very difficult and i think weve got continue to find ways just to spread our. A i teach in the university of memphis in tennessee and they have recently passed the divisive concept laws years ago and it a Chilling Effect on our campus and and so you know was carefully listening to what patrick had to say in regards to we need to debate better or its, you know, lot better but if these laws continue we wont have the same. On those as hooks would say that, knowledge would be subjugated. And so how can we debate better if were not going to have the same facts. Since the reagan era, they have demonized education and educator laws, and so now theyve they have create hate to say this but into they have now created a fine art they have devised these to codify silence right not just at the kthrough12 level, but also at the university and college level. And if you do not abide by the silence, youll be silenced economically. And so there is a large carrot and component to the divisive laws. And now you have to also report what youre doing to, balance the, diversity, the intellectual diversity on the campus as well. So theres a. It is getting very its scary in to the the legislation that is has occurred and will is down down the pike. So i have the great privilege of not having graduated from historic to college. I had the opportunity to also teach there and serve as an administrator. So of course were not restricted by some of what youre faced with. Richard. But patrick has heard me say this before is until the lie and learns to write his own story. The hunter will be the one who was glorified. So its really important for us to make sure in spaces however we can, we can better the conversation around the history and how it should be taught. And you know its not about teaching these what to think, but its to teach them how to and expanding their minds and intellectual capacity in such a way that they go out and they understand that there are systems in place that are oppressed, marginalized groups of people. But its important that we make that these students understand the power of the pen on paper in articulating these stories and being inclusive and not silence. The history of of us sitting here on this day, those us sitting in this audience and even spaces that reflect this history here in the mississippi museums. But of course, that has been the one thing that has inspired me most, because as a student at zulu college, i was pushed to think, and i was pushed to ask questions of those sources that that i was reading, which is the reason i sit in the position that in now and doing the research that i do and that it goes to your your final part of your question, william, around you, how does this impact young people as long as you have people who are sitting on the stage like us and doing the work that were doing, we can really fight against of these structures that are in place that keep this information from young people, these young people to the history and make sure that it is not lost and that thats how you get it, that william and i think thats a really, really important part. Everybody doesnt get the experience that i had as a young story and the tools, but thats our responsibility. Lets shift gears just a little bit. Lets start dreaming what would or so are our prompts here . What monuments do we deserve . What would our world look like . What would our region or country . What would mississippi look like if . We had monuments that we dont have to protect with removal laws if we had monuments that