the doctor then says -- finds out what that complaint is, all right? send me your clinical records. ask your doctor for a copy of the records and send them to me. so we get the clinical records, and we see what the patients had, what treatment, what pain control, what works, what doesn't, what the doctor thinks is the problem, and the patient knows the doctor's not going to help him. he knows that. and so it's ineffective. what we've got to -- >> larry: so what do you want done? how would you do it? >> okay. we have a consultation with the patient first especially, and with a spouse if possible, and with the family members. and later on with friends and relatives. all as one group. we have a real confab over it. then we have -- the way i laid it out, you break the state up into sections. in michigan i did it arbitrarily