me just why and why is it that they didn't looking more deeply. he said he really didn't know from the beginning, you know, and i can accept that maybe he didn't know, but someone in his -- in the white house knew, because i don't think the individual who said to me, "the white house wants you to resign," would have come with that on her own. i knew her before she was at usda. >> tloiven a brief snippet from secretary vilsack when he apologized and said it was a gross misjudgment. i took full responsibility but did vaguely mention the white house. >> i'm not certain in what period of time the white house was contacted, but as these calls were being made, the white house through the liaison's office, was aware. but the decision to do what was done was done by me.