especially an appellate judge, is a job someone tells you what to do and you listen. not having that experience means you're less differential. i think that's a plus to start with. i think that on today's court in order to be a powerful voice on the court, you can't be a predictable vote and that's justice o'connor and constituents kennedy. >> talk about being persuasive. she's up against justices from the conservative wing of the current court who are very precise and confirmed views. i can't imagine as persuasive as elena can be, i have a hard time thinking she will persuade justice thomas. >> it's all about the vote, which is 4-4, in which justice kennedy is the person who is going to make the determining decision and justice stevens and kennedy had a good relationship and sometimes it looked as though they were influencing each other. can justice kagan with her very