there's perjury. but it is not a trap. >> ken, i do not have the legal expertise you have, but in my 45 years of research, i always found the best way not to get caught lying is to not lie. >> well, first of all, certainly michael's correct about the technical use of the term perjury trap, but newt gingrich is a history professor, not a lawyer. he was using it descriptively in mr. trump's personality type. he is the king of hyperbole. that personality type and his stubbornness about it are really not well suited to sitting down and giving particularized, specific answers. i mean, that's what newt gingrich is talking about, which doesn't suggest anything michael said about the term is wrong from a legal perspective. i agree with him. but i think that newt gingrich is being descriptive. if you look at somebody like