measurements are key. visually, is there much you can tell? >> visually, i have not flown into a hurricane before. i think visually there's certainly concerning indications you get. in particulars as you are able to look at 9 structure and the organization that the eyewall has. that tells you a lot about h how -- how intensely the central circulation is developing. so i've seen the eyewall of hurricanes from the space shuttle looking down from on high all the way through a 50,000 foot storm. and i'll be very interested to see what the eyewall of irene looks like tonight. >> is it a smooth ride right now? >> it is right now a smooth ride. we get bounced and buffeted a little bit as we go through the rain bands, where the thunderstorms that are pumping all this lie. from the spiral pattern you see on at site images. we've gotten a bit bounced as