icebergs [ overlapping dialog ] >> let's stick -- go ahead. >> this is my point. my point is there seems to be a lot of energy in this direction that, you know, somehow now trump is trapped between these competing interests and forces. the question still runs back to what does cohen know and how much does he share of what he knows? what is the pressure point that they're going put on. >> they say mail fraud. it sounds like they're stacking up. >> a guy who says i'll take one for the team. i'll take one for trump. >> oh, come on. >> it seems to me -- >> seems like that giendkind of guy. >> that trump, when he looks at the russian stuff, he might actually believes what he says. >> i think he believes it. >> i'm not sure. >> he says it all the time. >> he didn't know what was going on. but maybe he should have. whatever. whatever collusion or cooperation or associations between his crew and russia, he might not have known about. >> like he didn't know about the $130,000. >> but -- >> you're stealing my point from me but when it comes to what michael cohen did, whether it's the $130,000 payment or business