wanted to keep up his image. desperate to hold on to this kind of pseudopower that he had amassed around him and i think they are going to want to spell that out as we move into the mueller probe that he was desperate. why did he work for the trump campaign for free? >> what about the defense? they don't have much to work with factually. what was their approach today? >> as you said, they don't have a lot to work with. spent a lot of time asking vendors, the tax preparers, did you work with rick gates, wasn't he handling all of this. wasn't he always telling you to talk to rick gates.