surge of violence. the surge is prompting cities whose leaders -- to reassess how far they're willing to go, and divert money away from the police and toward social services. this feels like a false choice, right? this is about being holistic, and only the trump republicans were suggesting that there was a real plank for defunding police. i actually remember when -- i think in the early fall or right around the conventions -- i wonder it seems that that is sort of an outdated way to look at this. you should be able to do both. >> exactly. this is if false equivalency. when i talk to lawmakers, to city officials and ant rests. i just sat down the week before last, with the mayor of sluice,