Always said that we have a standing invitation to you know special representatives of Human Rights Organization International Organizations to come as the feel its needed we have received letters we have answered those letters and you know the investigations are being carried through by the organs that are supposed to carry those investigations we have a justice thats true why did the Citizens Rights left turn to the City Government in barcelona when asked what took place who was involved what the cost was he was told by the interior Ministry Presentation of this information would violate the regulations on classified information in other words get lost i dont think so i mean i think we have being really candid about this and we have. Led every people who have been interested in this investigation to give us. That was classified information well maybe its the same with the least of those eight hundred people who have been injured that we have asked for it and weve never received but if its classified that its a cover up isnt it no i dont think i dont think and i dont think never i mean everyone everyone was carrying. Cameras and things can be seen and being seen and investigated no i dont think there is any cover up now now where you continue to deny Excessive Force Human Rights Watch for example said from its own research into three cases it had no doubt at all that National Force National Police and civil guard officers used Excessive Force using they made that up you know you talking about three cases and four people taken to hell is that is that is that at least is very three areas that they covered i mean final also for instance an old woman seventy years old said she was picked up and thrown to the ground by two civil guards after refusing to move from her chair which was blocking the path to the station someone else was then thrown on top of her and her wrist broke is that not excessive. I dont know i mean if they were prevented from. If they prevented the police from doing what they should be doing because they need so round on top of each other seventy year old come on im coming these kinds of accidents occur so or it isnt like an accident as well i dont think this was by any means. Really you know. Sunday a bloody sunday or anything like that may not have been bloody sunday but it was hardly in the best traditions of policing was it if people are being thrown to the ground well if you if you look at the. Actions of the police in many other incidents you i dont think you will be many different situation and pictures and those that you saw so i dont think and i repeat i dont think that was Excessive Force now. You were you didnt read these accounts from here its what did you know why didnt you have so you were simply sent out to tell the world that everything is fine no i. Am telling the world what i believe happened because i saw also the pictures we discovered that your police were specifically warned by the courts to respect the coexistence between citizens thats not entirely the case no no no no and then i was recruited by Human Rights Watch well i think that wasnt that was if im correct that was a phrase in one of the. Preamble of. The different documents that were drafted but that was not in the final of the of the of the courts no the fact is that they have a well known reputation for using Excessive Force no wonder theres already been censured by the u. N. The committee against torture and numerous human Rights Groups have been there and once again they show that it was justified i dont think that is the case i think one it with spain is one of the countries with fewer condemnations of judgments in the European Court of human rights less than for example belgium or many of them so i dont think that we have a reputation on the contrary on the contrary foreign minister two years ago the un committee against torture said it was seriously concerned over reports that the spanish authorities failed to carry out prompt effective impartial and thorough investigations into complaints of torture treatment committed by your Security Forces including allegations regarding acts committed during a communique out of detention and excessive use of force by the police well you know i think thats the job of the committee and tortured to say that about countries and to make sure that another if its the truth well young men are going to that may have been the truth in spain in one or two occasions but at the same happens in many other countries its well thought that thats not. Uses it said the spanish authorities made little effort to prosecute alleged i vendors look i dont think well that thats an opinion in any way but i dont i dont think spain has nothing that cannot receive lessons from many countries on that score its not everything lessons from countries receiving from the conventional body that you signed up to use it as a signatory to the Convention Really with whichever one you are screwed with groups which proves that we are ready to be scrutinised and there are other countries who dont dont accept that you cant go out of the results of the scrutiny can you if you say that they also express can do you know you know as much as there is a single case where there is a claim yes we cannot our aspiration is to. Be in a position not to receive any such claims but i dont think that we are in a particular position that we can single out as a country which has many such situations of cultural in one case last may the European Court of human rights found that spain violated the prohibited of torture and other ill treatment by failing to conduct an affective an investigation into allegations of torture proud of the one rule is you mention one case no it wasnt it wasnt the first case there have been seven seven seven cases thats a track record well if you so there is a menace can dispense it depend on to what you compare it to it doesnt but what are you happy with these seven cases are you proud of and i think i said that im not happy with any case where there has supposedly i havent followed through whether those claims have been proven right or not. Or where they come from the court itself which court European Court of human rights. I just told you that spain is one of the countries with the fewest cases of being condemned by the court of human rights sold something to treat i mean ive read reports and ive seen that our proportion is about zero bone thirteen cases so all the maybe something wrong in that maybe your information is not entirely correct i dont know you know it is actually pretty well let me let me talk more about your handling of this crisis the Catalan Crisis you have and say youre in forcing the law and constitution yeah according to the Council Learning government youre administrator has itself been in clear violation of the spanish constitution so from one thousand nine hundred to october the first the civil guard opened private letters addressed to thousands of citizens searched government offices and private companies intercepted the post delivery and subscription magazines in the tent to seize all material related to the coming vote all in violation of article eighteen of the spanish constitution which will do that and thats their opinion if you take at face value whatever they say. Maybe do you deny that those things were done because the court where was ordering to find out who was responsible for a lot of actions that were done in contravention to our constitution so its not that they took the initiative by themselves they were following court orders and that is what the police do in you know in countries where the rule of law prevails. They also point out that your government is pretty selective in which Court Decisions it implements and which it chooses to ignore it says the cattle the Catalan Government says there are currently thirty four rulings by spanish courts in favor of catalonia which you the madrid government simply ignore three on education twenty four on social Services Three on environmental matters and foreign culture but. I dont think that now is the time to discuss those things which are you know claims by a Regional Government that has being blatantly these regarding their own regional laws the. Decisions of the chords the constitution so. No to me i tell you it is beyond me using you of hypocrisy well we could do the same we dont need to accuse accuse them of hypocrisy we accuse them or acts of actions that have been judged by everyone and by any sensible people to be in you know in blatant disregard of the laws of the mob kwesi i mean what can you accept of people who have simply put away the rules of the parliaments and the opinion of their Legal Services and even the opinions of the majority to pursue a path that was simply going to divide the cattle on people and the private them of a kind of. Coexistence and togetherness that they were you living with so far why did you let this crisis get so bad i mean there were so many opportunities to stop it along the way this is a catastrophic failure by your government not to step in the thats your opinion and that sort of thing and i dont think thats going to stop it for you may have been some. I mean we may have been a bit name naive we didnt think that these people would go so far as to provoke the situation of division and drug. And dacian that they have provoking catalonia but thats simply their own responsibility but the fact is that the catalan next president carlos approached them repeatedly and continually sought dialogue with your government turned to look he only sought a dialogue about the question of a referendum the date of a referendum and the date of liquor ration of unilateral independence all those things are totally impossible under the spanish constitution and for that matter and there are any constitution in the western world. Minister is that true because in april twentieth he said publicly that if madrid agrees just to the existence of a problem between spain and catalonia and the knowledge of the problem and starting talks would send a positive sign. That. Thats his opinion in any way i dont know what i said oh thats what he said but thats ok if you if youll take what he says as the truth thats fine with me but as for nothing more illegal or nothing more seditious than roads then negotiation and dialogue that could give expression to the aspirations of the majority thats what and if that was true he would have come to the meetings of the president s of the spanish regions to discuss have about the new system of financing of these animals communities he would have come to the committee that has been established in the in the Spanish Parliament to discuss about the possible amendment of the constitution he never came to that he simply. Thinks that hes right and everyone else is wrong and. Honestly think that the true this is the opposite but even after the referendum he stepped back from asking the Catalan Parliament to vote on independence used instead he made a symbolic declaration and called for negotiations on the regions future were all responsible adults around them without a government in my life everything the government gave him every. Unity to step back from the brink he could have had the opportunity to call elections himself he didnt there i mean honestly. To me its hard to understand how you give some credit to that kind of politician who is clearly a discredited the politician by now but his is the irony because im not talking of the twenty ninth you said i rule out full independence but not necessarily more autonomy even if they are now already one of the regions with the highest powers incompetence why on earth didnt you offer autonomy six months earlier instead of just shutting down the i mean i think i think such a possibility was clearly offered to them if they dont they dont think so well there is something so in for roads for negotiation. No really i dont think for this six months earlier what we did we have been offering dialogue all the way and. They have proven that they are the only thing that they wanted my vote knows why is to bring the council and people to the brink of disaster by pursuing this road to unilateral independence somehow you know unilateral the you read the creation of unilateral independence in spanish comes across in english as driving under the influence and im absolutely convinced that these people are driving under some kind of influence i dont know what but its honestly an opportunity now we have with the regulators asking just for roads for negotiation and thats all we asked for you didnt offer more autonomy or we did we did at that time we have over you so you didnt before what he says i mean if you if you trust him thats fine i deny you were distracted the government was thinking of other things they were all these on the run this once again on the mainland on the twenty ninth of october in april april in. When we made that offer. Dont remember right now but im sure that we were governing which is what we are supposed to think that mr bush the man has not been doing in the last few months he didnt take any notice of the needs of the catalan people the only thing he talked about and thought about was the independence and the resolve if the situation in which catalonia finds itself right now with business is leaving and unemployment growing and that is only the responsibility of the cattle of the previous government over and you were distracted by all the corruption scandals that your party is faced with one senior official after another becoming implicated in illegal process and i dont think that government was distracted by that now the Prime Minister was called to appear as witness one of the most notorious cases of corruption in your party first time a sitting Prime Minister has been called to give evidence in spain im not sure that was the first case but in any case the Prime Minister did what any ordinary citizen would do and that what mr puts them on doesnt want to do because he escaped the justice so there is nothing wrong in appearing as witness in a case before the court and sol you know that is something that we suppose your mother doesnt seem ready to do so. You go. Well according to him according to the Catalan Government you bet everything on the coercive power of the law and the state to make it go away but it hasnt worked has it we havent used the question the only moment that we have had we not we the police has been forced to do some question this because they were obeying court orders we have always showing the way to dialogue and we have to govern the whole country and we do it in a peaceful and democratic way and thats thats the way it is. And. If you go one you know simply accepting as you know the whole truth what. The previous current government government was saying thats fine but thats not the reality but your actions were causing concern even in geneva with the office of the high commissioner for human rights september the twenty eighth his Office Released its experts view that the measures they were witnessing in spain in catalonia the searching the printing houses the seizure of referendum material blocked web sites political meeting shutdown these were worrying them because they said they appeared to violate fundamental individual rights cutting off Public Information and the possibility of debate at a critical moment for spains democracy well you said it appeared they appeared to violate they sent letters and with very with their opinions to us and we dutifully answered them and that is fine thats thats a kind of exchange that we have and all the members you said you know you deny this we use a sensor except the ball measures to. I mean what i say is that some of the measures sometimes have to be done in order to comply with the judgments of the. Course im with decisions of the courts. And the whole proceeding is about. Finding out whether those situations are justified or not and we believe that in these cases they were justified because of the. Investigations that were being carried out by by the courts about people who were clearly violating the spanish laws and the constitution and when the u. S. Experts on the promotion of a democratic and credible International Order cuse you have backsliding on commitments to National Agreements like the International Covenant on civil and Political Rights for instance we have you we have that we are yes i do we have never hidden from from the examinations and you know about our level of compliance with the International Covenant on human rights yes but he says you are backsliding on that international that is we have a procedure we have a procedure to ascertain whether that is true or not and that is what we are following. You may be following it but they dont agree that youre in from clients with it. Well thats their opinion then we have ours and then the brissie did exist so find out who is right and who is wrong and well find out the right of selfdetermination is a right of peoples and not an parag or tip of states either to grant or deny i mean whatever says that without qualifying what hes saying is simply someone who cannot be you know considered as someone who is you know interbreeding or applying the law which is very clear that the rights of selves and the socalled right of selfdetermination of peoples do not exist in the context of states who behave without discriminating people from on account of their. Believes of the religion of their color so i mean if that is the type of people that you would trust there may be something wrong in your judgement too well its not that i trust them its what the experts are so you regardless of the lawfulness of the referendum this is you have a responsibility to respect those rights that are essential to Democratic Society and we do respect them and the the ones who didnt respect them was the previous government of the of catalonia we do respect them but there are rights that do not exist however much you claim they exist do you think this issue is really going to go away yes it will yes it will we are going to be able to restart. Togetherness and coexistence in catalonia and there we are going to safeguard the rights of those who live in catalonia to remain cats i learn spanish and european you had three quarters of a Million People demonstrating on saturday for independence and against the current detention of the catalan leaders and you think theyre just going to go away you know the. Going to express to vote in the elections of the twenty first of december to gather with six of the Million People who catalan but you dont really see the long shadow over these elections havent you wish on the implication from senior members of your party is that if the Independence Party is win and still want independence you just step in and take back against that is your opinion we havent said such things i dont know where you get those all right from the senates Vice President pedro sons was a member of your party he said if after december the twenty first there is a government outside of the law there will be another one five five another article one five five being treated which means you come back in and remove why dont tell me well see what happens if this is a threat what is in it no it isnt a threat i mean. No i dont think there is a threat we are going i mean we have shown that we won the moxie to prevail in catalonia lead catalan people vote and then we will see what happens and those who can prevent any such situation happen as has been created in the last few months are those who are this regard and violating the first the cuts on the law and then the constitutional but you think this is a free and Fair Election if youre saying that indeed if you say you know what im if the wrong side wins will come along and were going to agree on not saying such a thing were not saying such a thing. And though we are making sure that this is going to be a feeling of free and Fair Election. System thank you very much for thank you its like you think you. Get. To. The be. Exit. Let. His trademark. Law its passed by such. Is a musical rec. In silly asia. Barenboim. One of the greatest musical personalities of our time is turning seventy five. For the power of music. Fifteen minutes long dealing. 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Zimbabwes military has seized control of the country but denies it has staged a coup ninety three year old president Robert Mugabe and his wife are under house arrest but soldiers who seized control of the state broadcaster have said the couple is safe the military has also blockaded parliament and taken up positions around the capital in what it calls a process to restore democracy. Over a dozen people have been killed by flash floods in greece following a night of heavy rain. The Prime Minister has declared a period of National Mourning for the victims. A swiss aid worker who was kidnapped over a month ago in sudans war torn region of darfur has
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