Change. Thats our topic here on to the point hello and welcome im melinda crane and these are the guests who will be discussing that topic with us kong un potch is spokesperson for the berlin section of fridays for future he believes changes coming through the hope that we give to people. And its a pleasure to welcome alan posner he is a commentator for the daily newspaper he argues to be successful the fight against Global Warming needs more than Kids Skipping School it needs politicians who can gain votes for sensible policies. And were very happy to have with us around the christian she is currently a fellow. The more catcher institute on global comments and Climate Change she says emerging countries like india or china must take advantage of the growing middle and upper class to balance their climate and development. So let me start out by asking you angele great to the young swedish leader of the school protests that have now gained worldwide support she never uses the term Climate Change she says we absolutely need to be talking about the Climate Crisis because thats what it is would you agree. I think i would go with what shes saying and wed have to stage bad because we debating. Whether we should be. Looking at making a move or not we sort of fosse beyond that particular stage given Given Research given the recent update that that have been there on the climate georgian sea so yes i think it is a crisis and this will be accepted this innovate can move more into next and and come up with solutions to introspect island what do you think the words make a difference is it a crisis and not simply Climate Change. The problem is that you know a crisis you think of stuff like whats happening in the gulf you think of war as you think of confrontations and this mostly for most crisis is a quick fix. Something theres a theres a war there isnt right but with this Climate Change its something thats been going on gradually for 100 years and we know theres no quick fix so im not sure that the word actually helps it it is something that is our world fundamentally and we need to change policy in all sorts of stuff fundamentally and thats never fost so im im a bit skeptical about that you say change is. Mainly. Can we really be sure that this rising Public Awareness because clearly awareness has changed climate absolutely is making headlines the can we be sure that that will really show translate into increased willingness to take action well i hope so im talking here for millions of young people all around the world im talking for a lot of young people here in germany and we we do have hope because if we dont have hope we would go on the streets and we have to go striking and we have to take that privilege of the day of democracy and our right to go to the streets so we can say and demand a Climate Crisis a proper policy how we act you say hope but in fact if you listen to what a lot of young people say they are many of them feeling a sense of despair of fear can that really translate into productive action or can it actually sometimes become almost paralyzing for people i think we have to be i think we have to fear and we have to. Act like its in crisis because then we will act now and we wont talk about what we can do in 20 years we have to act now because the scientists are saying that we have around 10 years to act and then it would be possible to do. And say stew so we have to act so we can reach to Paris Agreement to talk 15. Angele Something Else that grated timber has been saying more and more is that we have to link up Climate Policy and social justice in other words that those who will bear the burden of changes in behavior of changes in policy have to be compensated for that do you agree with that and what would that look like in practice. I think bringing social justice and Climate Change or the Climate Crisis. I think it is it is one of the bigger discussion of that today because we do have. Whos going to make the changes who polluted before and now whos the burden coming on and no inevitably it is the poor the most Vulnerable Countries of the population that have been in the brunt of it without contributing as such so. It does it really see a lot of changes boiling down to the consumer level. And also burdens being taken on by the developing world the global south so yeah so this discussion is something that needs to be put forth front but at the same time not letting go of that by one while just because of the owing to the social justice no changes need to be made. Sorry if i can just press a little bit on that because the countries that you mentioned in your Opening Statement india china historically they did far far less than the western industrialized countries to contribute to. C o 2 emissions so are people there really ready to change track in their own behavior because of the past sins of the developed world i think i can speak much for india that india continues to not contribute enough at least in a book up with a basis to the to the ambitions as it is and i thought as being ready i think conversations or at least the coming out in the streets which weve seen in in your up mostly is not to the same extent as in india. I would i would know less about about the case in china but i think as far as people being dragged. I think its too early too early to aust them to be ready in terms of giving up a scaling back on their consumption rather we need to be need to have a little bit of a top down effect down perception when it comes to the changes being made particularly from these areas of the yeah i would just want to say that we as you fight for climate call that Climate Justice because we are going on the streets and also demanding Climate Justice not because we cant live here in euro rich country and say oh were doing were doing were doing solutions were having solutions for Climate Change but then. Poor countries they suffer thats often not. No and. See the Climate Crisis behind it all so we have to have a solution for climate adjustor ellen you talked in your Opening Statement about sensible policies and you also said politicians need to be able to get the votes to implement those policies what do you think it will take to convince people for example here in germany to vote for policies that can that can hurt their wallets that will mean Higher Energy prices that could even mean shifting jobs out of old polluting industries. Well. Much as one can talk about Climate Justice people are not going to vote for that kind of thing its quite simple we had just had Regional Elections in saxony and in brandenburg where the denies the existence of Climate Change gets 20 percent now if that party words are stupid is to deny Climate Change but then said ok we accept Climate Change but we dont accept that we bear the cost they could get on that alone and were not going to you know they could get 30 or more percent that is to say if a radical anti comet party can get 20 percent less radical and Climate Change you could get even more so you really need. To be careful how you talk to people if you talk about you know if it if it boils down to a moral thing like we in europe have been doing this for 100 years and. People will say well no it wasnt me it was my grandparents was my parents we just tried to get out of poverty were just trying to make a living you have to make clear to people that change can come without it affecting their private lives too much because otherwise theyre not going to vote for you i want to come back to what that could mean in practice what Climate Justice can also look like within a country in just a moment but 1st let us take a listen to gratitude back herself as she prepares to leave worldwide protest this friday and next she has this message to the world with our business as usual we are currently on track for a world that could displace billions of people from their homes and yet the link between the climate and ecological emergency and mass migration famine violations of human rights and war is still not clear to many people activism works. I know youve met great a tim burger couple of times what is so powerful about this young girl from sweden what has propelled her into this kind of worldwide in some ways leadership position well i think just speaks the truth and shes saying it without complicated what shes saying in short sentences and she is saying that for all the youth around the world that we have to acknowledge and she is giving us hope but also say. Shes also pointing out the crisis and thats the important thing about her and really years say that people in india for example are quite as attentive to the discussion as perhaps we here in europe and some in the u. S. Does that mean greater is an unknown figure there is this largely a european phenomenon oh no of course i mean shes managed to touch every possible corners of the void with the movement and i mean were discussing her on to be that activism has reached everyone and i think. Schools in and out beef seen i think almost 3037 cities that would be joining the 2027th september climate strike is about. I mean. Seeded in my mind is not a new concept in india its been that its ingrained sustainable lifestyle is something that i think you still see of the indian life that glittered in the culture as it is so whats happening is. The people of its more local the understanding of what the effect of the environment is in terms of pollution in terms of the noise in terms of the changing climatic conditions i think the more local that this people are able to see it with bucked the effects on the coasts the effects towards more t. D. s guess that understanding might be my. Beautiful less dispersed as it as it is over here but. But i think its getting there but its getting that its at its own space its not as extensive as it might have wanted when you say the fight against the Climate Crisis needs more than just a bunch of Kids Skipping School but hasnt this movement greater also all the kids going on to the streets catalyze change that goes way beyond that generation and that particular group im thinking for example of the e. U. Parliamentary elections last spring green parties did very well in a number of countries and many people say that had to do with the School Strike in the attention that its gotten and im sure im sure did i mean i myself sat down and read a book i thought i knew everything about Climate Change before this book is all about read and not a couple of books about it and you know theyve definitely achieved a lot the problem is we had it in that clip if you boil everything down to Climate Change this sort of this becomes money causal in fact if you look displacement of people weve the refugee crisis in europe that really was a crisis by the way was not caused by Climate Change was caused by despotism in syria it was caused by corruption in africa it was warlordism all over the world and if you suggest to people that theres just one point from which you can change the whole world then i think theyre doing people a disfavor because the the point is that this world is a multifaceted thing and Climate Change much as young people might hope that you know this is the to the archimedean point that the magic bullet it isnt you know if you just want to see if quantum really thinks thats what greater is doing really well just say im boiling it down to one cause solving crime a crisis we will have a proper future and dads with the car industry thats with our economy and with every out of political fear we have and i will it is something that is a huge complex. Issue its nothing that its just one thing its Climate Change and this Climate Change with above everything because we have to solve this so we can have probably economy we can have proper this and this and so we have to solve it of solving time it is necessary but it wont get rid of mr assad it wont get rid of the of the of disability that will get would have missed. The of the of the more as one get divorced lords these things have to be at the same time and therefore it wont get rid of refugees so thats what im saying is we are not solving Climate Crisis there will be a lot of more refugees totally agree yeah because thats climate just those of us not just pointing out one thing is pointing out a lot of things so we have to deal with everything but its a huge fight we have to fight and julie wants to. Responding to you i think. Addressing the timing pricing being the only player that might need to be pushed to the extent that its right now so that it comes to the forefront amongst other developmental political priorities that have that we know that a lot of the im dressed does does so without a march from the need of the demand for oil and to certain extent goblins other decisions which of politically motivated so and the Climate Crisis to a certain extent tries to address the fact that conundrum which which the fossil fuel industry has has created and. You come from a rigidly from from from india and the kashmir crisis that has nothing to do with climate you have time agenda you have 2 atomic powers india and pakistan facing off. I want to try to cut this short i think you yourself has said you think that Climate Crisis certainly will make other crises worse whether its security in africa whether its migration so perhaps we can just focus for a moment on the tangible effects that people are feeling the world over the heat wave in europe the u. S. Weve seen flooding in the bad west weve seen forest fires. California there is no doubt whatsoever that hurricanes have grown stronger thanks to warmer oceans theres a huge array of tangible effects that people are feeling do you think that is changing some minds even amongst those who might have been leaning toward climate skepticism well i would hope so and. Youve got to be careful i mean a warm summer or even free will and some reason in europe doesnt you know if people think you know thats here. You know we might have 3 cold summers if you know its still possible if this is we told them a statistic c. A right were not talking with its not always going to get let me make this very concrete in the u. S. We are seeing polls from people in the midwest who said they had long doubted that Climate Change was really a reality now they say we feel it ourselves we see there has to be a change thats what im saying thats what im saying they are saying it now because theyve seen but statistically its totally possible that you have 3 rainy summer as wouldnt change the science it was in if people then said oh we have 3 rainy summers it isnt changing i have to look thats why im im im worried when people take weather conditions and say oh this convinces me because the science is its statistically its not whether its climate right its a difference and then no you are doing Climate Research so let me ask you this great Attorney Says this is her slogan right now unite behind the science she has just gone to the u. S. Congress and presented them with a copy of the report by u. N. Scientists from last fall saying we have only 10 years to turn this tanker around whats your thinking will we succeed are way too late but if you dont stop now we definitely are and 10 years is for the 1. 5 and i mean be reasonably keeping warming under 1. 5 degrees and speaking. Pushing the part of free to the extent that you want and how much do you want to delay it but. I understand your point on the buy that in the climate aspect but if its 3 summers of rains and 3 some was of excessive heat its going to be 2 decades of the same i mean how many of the same has to happen for us to believe that we need to address it and its not just the. Depletion as a result of that the effect of on debility thats coming to the society and so on the consequences on the economic status of the country i think i think is avoid damage officials fact that that big be not trying to understand or recognize drago so so lets lets talk a little bit about what we need to be doing in those 10 years greater to herself endeavors to practice what she preaches she eats no meat and instead of flying to the u. S. For next weeks Climate Action summit she endured a rather argue was 2 weeks sail on a climate neutral boat but are the rest of us really willing to change long ingrained habits. Ecological transportation carmakers are rolling out more and more electric models but demand is much higher for s. U. V. S weighing tons environmentalists call them climate killers in germany sales have doubled in the past 5 years. Fewer flying hours it would be nice but in fact people the world over are flying more than ever. Over the next 20 years positive figures are expected to double and more to own for 8000000000. Coming out to meet vegetarians cause fewer Greenhouse Gas emissions. Get consumer hunger for burgers of bacon is still huge averaging 43. 00 kilos per person per year. And even 100. 00 kilos in the usa. Cutting back for the climates and the calls falling on deaf ears. I must admit that after i had the pleasure to personally meet great to tune back i really was struck by her almost profit like integrity and i felt a bit of shame about my own rather inconsistent behavior so since then i