Promises to respect the rule of law nigerias government stands accused by the International Community of serious human rights abuses my guest this week here in london is live mohammed the countrys information minister how does he defend against the countrys many critics when the evidence of wrongdoing is so compelling. Like mohammed welcomes conflict so thank you for the human rights record of your administration has been widely condemned by the un western countries your own Lawyers International human rights bodies for brutality and the stunning lack of accountability why do you say this go on in the region why didnt you get a grip on this. I think theres been a lot of. Mystery of the intention by all these groups absolutely really working concert well or you know theyre working constant and theyre working you know a little but i know for a fact thats essential in particular as being very sensitive to the issue of human rights most sometimes terrorists politicians activists are confused with human rights so you put it all down to confusion i would do that because i do not know as a fact and ive been minister for almost 5 years that this any policy of my mistress. That deliberately targeted at infringing on anybodys rights missed the last september the un special rapporteur on extrajudicial summary or arbitrary executions agnes kalama she launched a damning report on nigeria im sorry and the human rights abuses of your Security Forces she said she spoke of countrywide patterns of abuses include the police militarys excessive use of lethal lethal force in violation of the Political International standards im sure you read the report and shes not a person who makes these accusations lightly indeed i did but i would have been much more impressed if example was. I given now you must not forget that language has been locked in in a war of attrition with a book for almost a decade and the pain of. War where fighting is a war amongst people. And. Even then the military has been very careful to ensure that as much as possible writes i know about it it now ive also read about reports of people who claim that there are them balloted simply because they have been arrested by any of the security agencies and theyve been asked to go through or due process but i know their support to see this government does nobody today what is right if its not a matter of policy why have there been so few investigations the un investigators spoke about the absence of meaning effective investigations the absence of meaningful prosecution all of which are compounded she said by the lack of transparency over the vast majority of Security Issues that accusation about lack of transparency and Effective Communication strategy goes straight to your door minister doesnt it you are the minister of information serious criticism here but what i do know as a fact that. Several keys of abuse of you know rights kelly against soldiers have not only be investigated but put people have been punished and have been made public how many how many people i dont know offhand but i knew the minister of information was of course i cant know everything but i knew for i know that the military or so is very jealous of his reputation and they have set up many. Pilots and i think that officer ive been dismissed or imprisoned. The International Criminal court isnt isnt impressed by a record that says in 20000 there was a reasonable basis to believe that the nigerian Security Forces committed the war crimes of murder torture cruel treatment outrages upon personal dignity and intentionally directing attacks against the civilian population but you have failed to cooperate with investigators and failed to provide information that they requested and if you take these things seriously and you cannot but take the word of the International CriminalCourt Seriously you would have provided that information why didnt you how do you know what information they are asking for a lawyer provided by another would incorporate in with a breeders history will it come through they say they wont they were getting help from you they were getting them from the hay nor that the i. C. C. Met with the authorities in a career and we would have no choice but to cooperate theyve been waiting for years to get your cooperation and it hasnt come minister maybe youre out of the loop here what maybe you dont have information about whats going on in your own government and very. Informed or go so my government and ourselves i do need to do take the trouble to ask and. Im not that im not aware that we havent we dont our cooperation from the i. C. C. The un special rapporteur speaks of countless allegations of excessive use of force by your police in particular officers of the special anti robbery squad or saw as you said you wanted specific examples theres a specific examples theyve been accused of widespread torture in some cases leading to deaths in custody and extra judicial killings so the unit is clearly out of control isnt it because the Un Human Rights Committee warned your government to ensure that this group operates in accordance with International Standards because they dont trust that its doing that at the moment why would that be. I think im aware of that and at a point in time when the support came out the sas was disbanded and or little constituted and you know werent that else 4th they must. Be sure that the operating within the confines of the law your own National HumanRights Commission investigated their activities and even held public hearings but the results were never published were. Not aware of the im not aware that i was on what are published and i took my assumption has to be that youre covering up damaging evidence doesnt it with your friends i dont think so we have. Some police men were dismissed then sas was disbanded and reorganized there after. Minister on the question of providing information to outside investigators you failed to provide information to the u. N. Under the International Covenant on civil and Political Rights which nigeria has signed last august the treaty body accused you of failing to honor your reporting obligations under article 40 of the covenant and ignoring numerous reminders to do so why is that when you tell me all cooperating so openly with these bodies why would they say that what the housing true i want to know that they will say that but i know that we have never shown any internationalization we are very open as to the facts i was not her she was not as possible for any country who is in no way gene an entire you know. He is so jesse very open and we we operate with international you know regulations and laws well clearly you dont go into the bodies that monitor these situations well it depends a for it it depends on from what perspective they get to the information where theyre getting it from different perspectives and then were talking about human rights organizations International Human rights organizations were talking about the u. N. Were talking about. All kinds of bodies the International Criminal court theyre all saying the same thing that youre not cooperating and you sit here in front in front of me minister says about simply not true its like saying its starkness outside when we can see its very like no no i think that knowledge is not correct i ignore that de de witt we see we entity and we engage all these bodies. As a government and youre not going to move from that version despite the evidence that i have qualified love im yet to see anybody any evidence that them. That is so very unlike a white as official in that as not responded to it when he talked of a suspect side method that yes it will be pursued report and we took action mr were all not stonewalling on requests for information youre taking radio stations of the air and having reporters arrested or beaten june last year you tried shutting down nigerias oldest private t. V. Channels well as radio stations owned by a member of the opposition p. D. P. Raymond doc pacey a federal court overturned your suspension but the Nigerian Guild of editors called this a barbaric crackdown on free speech why you launching a barbaric crackdown on free speech i think is a lot of ignorance and a lot of this steve gadd is dont know what thats all in bellevue read the press is station was closed down because he ordered the national red little not because of the news it was pushing out and in january last year soldiers raided the offices of one of your leading papers the daily trust and arrested reporters in march or journalists have been held for 2 years was rearrested you rank 100 and 20th out of 180 countries in the press freedom in the acts of Reporters Without Borders its not a glorious record is it minister well i think when it comes to the level of the press. Were doing extremely very well and if papers run foul of the law the must visit consequences but when you have back to the 100 newspapers in the country and i cited the example of one newspaper out of school dine with me here i think we should be fair to us that we have a very Robust Free PressAmnesty International says that between january and september last year at least 19 journalists and media practitioners were attacked those attacks and clued verbal and physical assault and indiscriminate arrest and detention by your Security Forces in the impression ministers therefore that your aim seems to be to stifle freedom of expression especially critical voices you dont like criticism thats the current you see because i think many of these people dont live on that dont know the eco system of the media in injury virtually every major you know print media is owned by individuals and i can tell you that they had a list of all 12 National Newspapers and trust their literacy i thought i dont remember what the story was but you cannot take the example of one newspaper among about 20 to say that the country is stifling the media on the contrary at a point in time i thought that was the government it was actually at the receiving end of the media what has also worried people enormously his decision to submit a bill which in its original form would have seen anyone convicted of socalled hate speech actually sentenced to death by hanging on the particular circumstances you actually wanted and you sought authorization from parliament to kill people because of something they said why would you do a thing like that extraordinary and shocking provision added what is the right. The ignorance of people theres what is cause oppression of power in the in or in most major democracies this particular be talking about east it builds up to ted not by designating body legislations but listed him of government so how can you accuse the. You submitted you submitted as we did not as the source of the sort of ignorance we did not this is a private members bill but a senator with just the you has this and youre telling me you didnt want it to go through is that we do have a choice in which bills to go through or not the bill has been discussed this public airing what is it the government does not commonly do when the bill has been passed and you didnt use any influence together. At all absolutely none if this bill had gone through minister journalist could have been jailed for any article deemed threatening abusive or insulting and could have been hanged if their work caused any loss of life what you didnt object to this bill that you ignored as it is this was what is called doctrine of the penal power. The only thing you can do as president is refuse your asset such a lot the last blood being passed the blood what will not are dead but desire to keep the law is still going through the senate so how is that how did i just miss the president stop it with ive been accused of not dictatorship and muslim the you telling me you wouldnt have signed the law with that provision in it i think this you can tell me that you have been speculating you cant tell me why when we went we get when we at the bridge right across it would look at what are the contents of that law in what form will it be passed but you see people rushed in order to history to judge to judgement you cant if we dont you wonder if you said we submitted that that bill we did not we know nothing other than wanted submitted knew we dont micromanage the parliament really what about the protection from internet for sword and manipulations bill also carrying draconian provisions on the journalists could be in prison and who for publishing content always the author of that bill are you against this bill or not im not even aware of that bill youre not of the protection from internet false or the manipulations bill youre not even aware of now where it. So i cant because its causing its causing an outcry internationally and youre the minister of information and i know nothing about this nor thought bill before the house there is a bill to say that a vertical that had to be there is not such a bill before the house Reporters Without Borders said these bills talking about the prohibition of hate speech bill and the protection from internet falso the manipulations bill they said these bills contain extremely harsh penalties that violate International Law and are likely to be used to gag the media and you are saying you know nothing about the doctors saying with they were wrong in saying that the submitted the hits with bill. Mr lets talk about corruption because in your country seems to begin with the government doesnt it the International Center for investigative reporting said last year that among 9 countries in Subsaharan Africa nigeria has the worst managed Sovereign Wealth Fund based on accountability transparency and oversight why is your record so bad absolutely false. Absolutely possible reported by the National Resource institutes Africa Office based on data from 2017 said you had failed to regularly disclose publicly the financial interests of government officials in the extractive sector or the identities of Beneficial Owners of extractive companies despite making public commitments to do so softly forces the 1st to drop the 1st obligation as a minister a public official is way too little it probably declare ration of oil assets. And any minister or public official who does not do so risks being prosecuted and we know many who are not been prosecuted as a result of that too is to the credit of this administration that only if you months ago we passed you know we put in we know in place a policy that compels every ministry every department to make public any expenditure above 10000 past so that the public can challenge what is being spent for is also good of a position that no government has ever succeeded in securing the condition of high profile politicians items tradition and spread those of them who belong to the ruling party we continue to fight corruption because and you for and you follow the rules do absolutely so in 2018 why in towards the close of president will his 1st wives of the Auditor General himself raise serious concern about the so called excess crude account that you have this is an oil savings account which holds dollar reserves from crude oil that are sold above the assumed benchmark price and in july that year the Auditor General warned you to bring your handling of this account into line with the more why if you tell me you follow the rules did he feel the need to say as if precisely because. He said it shows how to correct their decision is the editor at is an appointee of just how shocking he thinks your behavior actually is no us nor on the contrary really shows the level of transparency in demonstration that an appointee of government can say this i mean yet retain his job he noted that the actions from the account which appeared to have been made illegally in other words deductions that apparently violated constitutional provisions why would that be and why would he say that if youre following the rules as you tell me you are everywhere in the world to live in the most world no democracies you have what it is generous you have what would it a generous yes yes and their duty is to monitor the excesses of government now the father has allowed to do the job and the searing mince in office i think is testament to the fact that we really belittles bit in the administration the effect if the mystery of all congratulations for the always referred album good for as good as or as good from you as as i was supposed to know not just as im from the Auditor General who says you are not in line with the law but with that you dont think that man without prejudice to the. To the correctness or not of that you know allegation the fact that he can make that allegation submit it is built into understeer admitted that there are i think its that will happen in it and station that does not believe interest me says the audit team could find no Legal Authority for even the existence of this excess crude account so its a sham and a slush fund isnt it but i dont buy dont you admit it. And with that yeah theres no legal basis for this for this account and you know i dont think its correct to say that this normally would be what because the quid. As a cult ive known about it even before we came to government. It said the audit team could find no Legal Authority for even the existence of this excess crude account how come you didnt order persistent warnings from the Auditor General as he said year after year not just your government but the previous one going back to 2007 to bring this in line with the law again you tell me you follow the rules but its not backed up by the Auditor General we followed the rules and like even that allegation even that arthur is correct the all idea of an Auditor General is to point out to you what do i do wrong unfortunately to write i dont see any gobbling deewar that is all we always follow the law were always do everything correctly but assy get the fund that that original comment that report and nothing is happening is thin office yes and what you continue to make illegal deductions from the account what it depends what you made a good look at the illegal doctrine deductions that violated constitutional provisions if not you see if if it does member list concessional provision it is the little ditty of the parliament to take appropriate action but i dont believe that we do responsibility of the government if it cares about the peoples money to mend its ways and oh of course and will but thats if you had lived that you have even the little of the laws but what im saying is that yes they are today out of our funds and normal is the all essence of what the genera anywhere in the ward that they will be checks and balances and ali as does what will put it out here is that the asshole regularities and then the property you know i am of god plenty who did it for so what are you going to do in future about this im sure it has been and if he what are you going to do those ideas are true and she has been taken care of but hasnt been in these been reporting and complaining about the governments attitude to the sick since 2007 well just as the un has been complaining that you havent been giving information about. And excesses of violence used by your Security Forces as the International Criminal court has been complaining all these complaints are piling up minister what are you going to do in the future about them we dont walk we look at every complicit we look at our things there and we take action like ive told you there been several yes many military officers are been jailed some have been dismissed and its now interests Global Witness says despite a 50 year all boom which transformed nigerias economy into the largest in africa 80 percent of your people live on less than 2. 00 a day they say that an estimated 400000000000. 00 has gone missing from state coffers are you going to tell the people of nigeria where their money has gone. Under our watch between 20152980 nobody closer suffered in such allocation and i can only speak for when i became minister and i can see that between 1015 and 20 nobody can talk about all the money missing. My mama thanks very much for being so thank you very much. 6 the terms. Of the market. The momentum of the working world. Business man made in germany. 30 minutes d. W. Every day any solace the prizes. Hold out. Themselves one day in vienna playing the footsteps of the great weve. Been here in northernmost town the fleet street. For a time the want half the film very much alive and sound good guy to specialise in germany. Recognize where exactly. Was fun and i am learning a lot our sculpture history there. Deal with shallow. Extremely worth a visit. How does a virus spread. Why do we panic and when will all the. Computers through the tax come in and the weekly radio show is called spectrum if you would like any information on the chrono laroche or any other science topic you should really check out our podcast you can get it wherever you get your podcast you can also find us at. 45 science. Class. This is news live from berlin italy reports the highest single day death toll of any country since the corona Virus Outbreak began a grim picture emerges from got a couple more hospital maurits are overwhelmed and the army comes to carry away the death. Also coming up theres a huge rise in corona infections in germany as german chancellor Angela Merkel appeals for solidarity to fight against. The situation is serious take it seriously since german unification