But i went on this one and i mean my wants and needs with the guy and i will not. Then i mean you couldnt buy. In the year 2011 kenya passed a law that basically said that female genital mutilation was illegal despite this its still being practiced across the country and even here way we are in our county and we want to investigate why and id like to begin with selena who is actually a member of this community and an activist this is still happening and i know that the school youre running is also facing this challenge can you talk to me about that from 000 originally so even if i said that she doesnt want to go through that could somehow theyre theyre trapped there and they cant find themselves out even if they want to to get out of the situation for so up or were you to quote to know. Who was china who cotta not to misc you want to talk on the ambo how tuckey like you were coming. Up are equal munity well known or come or you get when you visit him and if you buy. 20 names or a month. What it is very young. Am i not the younger. Me the modern like. Camilla lange. The member and i met. Gettable when. Me only said that niggle anything get out while im alive i dont need as a book and you know but only if. There were none. Good and the man has a real not more under way nicole why her mom might never marry whoever not come right here but i wasnt a boy look no yarn and go and find them out of my dishes now with a nominal one as i have on your ill come back to you and now make it a little bit more personal i know for a fact that you had said to your mother that you didnt want to undergo this right and she forced you to can you talk to us about that. I think for me my mom because she wanted me to grow up like a normal my say child girl child because my grandmother used to go to watch many girls being circumcised so it was such a traumatic experience for me and i kept telling my mom that its something i never want to go through so she didnt think that my decision or my choice counted so she went ahead and decided for me the event planned as a surprise ceremony and upon coming home from visiting my uncle everything was said and i found a group of women and they dislike me in 1st me and. Its something that has been kind of disturbing me for a long time and sometimes she would talk to eat to have to look friends about it as a superhero story like a chapters she didnt know she didnt like it so i decided ok well i think its time to part ways with my mom after 10 years of thinking about it i have to try and told her then i was like ok you have this society you made them happy go in. This dramatic vision mirrors reality and the trauma of an age old a ritual more than 200000000 of women wild wild have been subjected to female genital mutilation its a tradition that reinforces mens power in Society Girls are still being caught during initiation rituals in the forest without anaesthetic naturally the girls put up a fight so several women dressed train them and push them to the ground its not uncommon for the girls to end up with broken bones. And id like to introduce durham because you are from us a bit which is a border town sometimes the girls choose to undergo this ritual how does that work. Im going to tell you my story is. For me i wasnt forced but i got into it due to be peer peer peer pressure how old were you i was 9 years old and i asked my grandmother that i should go through it i actually told her that i i begged her to go through it yes but what is the purpose of female genital mutilation in your community weve just heard from a male apostle here that a woman is considered not whole unless she is mutilated essentially whats the reason they give you our Community Practices a gym to reduce sexual desires in a woman so even if a girl hasnt gone through if jim in my community she is regarded as a prostitute or as a person whos lose yeah yes thats the main reason we Practice Energy ok i want to go to syria because youre also a survivor of g. M. Is this something that you also asked for in your community is there a lot of pressure in the village we know each other so we know who and who has gone through of g. M. So for me it was because of the oppression i went through with g. M. When i was 10 years old but because you are a very innocent child and people want you to be clean you go for it but afterwards you start regretting and nobody will is there to answer your questions yeah ok. So im a lawyer postle weve just heard from your daughter that you forced her to get f g m why did you do that. Camilla and not the mother of my only you member of the 1000000 i live in the middle you might not be happy so you mean to tell me that if there was no law against if g. M. You would still practice it. Among some i said i love one. Another then. I dont i guess out. Amongst and. So let me ask the many in this community we have some very good looking morons here dodie come up when im at work you must say one is ok oh im one can buy i had to cut. The pretty. Good to cook with in the community. Youre the closest Government Official to the people of this village and you have a lot to enforce but the people who are around you also your family members they might be the ones practicing it how how how do you enforce it in your own community 1st of all are you against it yeah im very much against it so what is the challenger than forcing because were hearing them a little so here saying if it was not for the risk of being arrested i would still do it the talent we have they have motive now if you buy it for. Practice so what they do they do with which is a very serious thing because something in. Us so we added then it is. The interest of their life and it is against the law ok so well come back to the to the enforcement a little bit later so just hold on to that thought id like to now speak to them say here because were hearing that the mindset hasnt changed the law is in place but the mindset hasnt changed what do you think it would take to change my. Opinion. Why this thing has been practice is because people have been not have not been sensitized well and therefore for for us we have been since the taking the b. Ball on harm caused by female genital mutilation e g. C v a bleeding is there we may cause deaths injury of the of. Course and the and many more the awful. The only thing to stop this is to create more Awareness Among the communities it is a deadly exercise im opposed to. Saudia were talking about a 100 full practice here one of the long term effects of f. G. And what have you had to contend with psychologically ok allow me to see that if jim is not something that ends with the day you are caught in something that follows you for a lifetime 2 hours after they cut you start shivering you start feeling fever your body temperatures rise so you can contract infections look those are the short times now when we come to the long time after you are no much you are even the mrs coming out is a challenge another thing is that you are moderate again you go through a process called if you believe its another be open then when you are you want to give back and it our community would give but as long as we can so that means after everybody you have to be cut for you to pass the child yes you have 3 children did you have any complications related to f d m when you had to deliver yes when i was giving birth to my 1st daughter i was on labor pains for 3 days and what happened is that the traditional but attendance was a give but a tom what a cutting me anyhow really so that only the. The child to come out but now again i thought it was over for the 2nd baby i was caught again for that that in fact they didnt was at all and i say i dont want to be caught in a more i want to go to a safe place where can deliver well so i saw some caesars coming and i was late what about these 4 that is i was even better fortunately this is as were also better because i had to go through as easy and delivery thats when i see its all over now the 3 daughters are enough for me i should talk to my community and tell them this should come to an end and for me i am fortunate those complications are talking at a minor compared to others who have now in blood living with a few still or others are now living with childless dram is this sounding familiar is a sounding like something youre also battling with psychologically and are you worried that physically your body might not be able to take a pregnancy. Yes i wanted every single day because 1st of all they do you go through it you will never forget as survivors we never forget the day that you go through after all right were also hearing from all these women who have undergone if g. M. That it does cause complications that its harmful so do you want another one of your daughters to go through that matter i am asked. Them about when im well i mean my boss and he with the guy and. Then i mean you couldnt buy. That would be i want to ask you another question because you said that it is cultural you would not marry a woman unless she was cut to not so much. You are not near me like you must say like an economy lies in the numbers of i must say when you watch and you might come up who are simba but dont know whats in become or running. Im not talking when i walk away and. You know imagine you. You could get good. At the youre part of mother not like im watching went early to matter to watch. Yeah not so clear where he is on that but we were talking about stigma of not going through the cut but theres also a 2nd layer of stigma once youre a survivor how does that work well as a survivor there are so many names that. First of all there is this notion that as a survival because you you know communities say you know sexual desire as you do not have sexual desires so there are people who say that survive us do not have that that. They actually had which is not true it is not true we do have and thats why these are the reasons why survive us are not able to speak up because they are called names if i am told that as a survivor you cannot do this and this therefore i will have that fear of speaking up yeah kaz cause is a sex educator and you might have seen her in the 77 percent with the spread do we know enough about if g. M. As the people who are living in the cosmopolitan areas and if theres a disconnect why i think the way were raised were very disconnected from a lot of things that happen culturally in different parts of the country in different parts of the continent then the one thing that im hearing that is a Common Thread amongst all of these conversations is that the value of the woman is is there is no value to a woman from the minute that a girl is born into a family she is automatically. Shes seen as a form of currency and its just its a Material Exchange because if she doesnt cut then it means that she cant be married that means the family cant make any money that also means that the family will be seen as outcasts within their community so a lot of these conversations just sound like very patriarchal conversations where the woman is not valued shes a thing so even with conversations around her health and their set. Things that she is not able to do shes not able to bear children. There are so many very many Health Issues around s. G. M. A lot of people dont care the value of the woman is so low that even when you tell them that women are dying they dont care but do we care enough as the people who are privileged to a large degree do we care enough to create safe spaces so that when the survivors you know survive that were listening to them. Yes but i feel like a safe space is never enough like whats the next move from there we need to be able to actually physically do something we need to be able to help certain communities im aware that in loiter there is the ritual of the female genital cutting also known as mutilation has been changed the ritual is changed so that the little girl wears the blue she. Has the women dancing with her shes taken to the hut shes laid on the mat but instead of cutting have a pour milk over her involve eliminates the harmful part of it ok n. G. O. S were mentioned catherine i have to come to you because youve been accused of and you know ive heard it said and read a couple of times that n. G. O. S a hijacking this conversation but youre not really listening to the people its a 2 sided way because those who are working at the ground really they listen to the people they do sensitized the people they do help the people but have those who are decided that narrow be who are doing nothing they dont come to the ground so its a 2 sided with ok i want to go to sat there for just a little bit you know you come from a community where 9 out of 10 women have been cut what would happen if say somebody got cut today and they went to the Police Station how how how is the law meant to be to work the law is supposed to be there to help the gals the victims this of all of us but unfortunately most of the time there are a lot of gaps in the law itself because once it was reported that means even the victims will be carted along as witnesses and in most Police Stations we dont have Child Protection sent us Child Protection units we dont have rescue centers in all the counties so that means these gals who are already victims have already suffered well again suffer another violence. Of like. Maintaining them as witnesses so another issue with the law is that once the girl is got she does she will automatically drop out of school and all that. Of challenges how is the Education Sector now helping in the Law Enforcement are they reporting these dollars who are dropping out of school what about the administrative. The chiefs for instance we have a lets lets lets lets ask him actually because you brought him up chief here you are somebody comes to the Police Station and says of just being forced to go through f g m and weve read some instances where the Police Officers ask them for photos of the thing happening this is not realistic what makes these guys not report the time they got there that being. One of. Their stigmatized with their yeah that is that is that is out hell be. Yeah because. Most of the stations dont have. Press 10 protection fender most of the. Battle maybe i have to go to the trooper to the Police Station so but isnt that why we have so many lez of administration so that if the police if you as a chief is not able to come to this community should you be able to send people to survey. I sent people to the to check no i mean if were saying that the people being circumcised or you know going through f g m a 9 or 10 how will they know to come to report what we do and that probably helped us a lot we collaborate with the church is the village elders and the community at large. But to to to be fair chief we already know that thats not working its not really working entirely so lets talk about arrests have there been any people arrested in iraq. Yes or for many even the kids even the chief ok we have achieved have been arrested placing his death and have been taken to court. It is it is an example to other community the way when they see that you have been arrested you do so if you are feeling the they dont believe because they know the law is really what is not agreeing with you but i want to come to salina 1st because is this ringing true to you do you feel like you can trust the Police Officers to enforce the law 1st of all we dont have any police discerning may really yet so i dont even know how it works with dealing with the police yet chief were being told you dont even have a Police Station here so where would you even begin in fact we have here shes saying shes saying in most or in most every tree in fact that is no so how do you enforce a law when they enforce those are not that we do try. Ok so speaking of stakeholders has. What more can we do as women to work with the women who are still going through this how can we be more active stakeholders i feel like we really need to be able to understand the ways in which different communities are able to absorb information and then use that and take that and find ways to educate women if it means showing them some of the effects of f. P. M. With young girls and the continued effect like sabia said throughout the lives of women and if they are so fixated around the idea of young girls getting married i feel like it would be if we could use that as a form of education to show them how it affects their marriages in a negative way how it affects childbearing in a negative way because children are such an asset and also just create spaces to actually discuss the vagina the evolve to actually look at it to talk about women and their experiences be it sexual be it physical to discuss the actual organ itself what can we do better to stop if g. M. A lot of the things that im hearing is set or colored to say here and you know the police post is so far away and so on and so forth and theres theres so many problems around it but im really curious with what we have and with what is available what can we do to make actual changes and. More precise question is how do we begin to change the mindset of mama who is old and very set in her ways how do we begin to educate or to have conversations with her in a way that she can have a ha moment where shes like actually we need to stop that ok lets ask a question of a here. You know we just ask the question what can we do better because what were doing so far doesnt seem to be working this thing is good because of the culture and the good the very deep and rich culture and they believe india. Therefore the only best way. Yes i have seen to stop that. Is to have a collection force in between the government and the chiefs the d. C. Is the governors the judge come out and say no and of course Education Department must also come to sensitize and make it stop i think if this. Collective. Is done then. Eventually this thing is going to stop ok christopher has articulated the knock on effects of f. D. A. And very clearly education is something that youre very keen on is this the way forward to stop after him do you think i think gus indication is one of the big the Big Solutions to ending if g. M. And Child Marriage and and teenage pregnancies because as this aid f. G. M. Does not stand as an issue alone and this organisations that are fighting to end if g. M. Cannot and if g. M. As one entity alone they have to address Girls Education because once girls and school they will to learn about their bodies we have a center in mostly row and its mor