Generations have allowed their citizens to sink into poverty and despair the explosion was a terrible symbol of that neglect the cause a highly volatile quantity of Ammonium Nitrate the result for years in a warehouse of port officials warned of the dangers posed mornings but was systematically ignored but would anything change in the aftermath would anyone ever be held to account for and sympathy arrived in the shape of Frances Emmanuel macro when he brought an uncompromising message theres no blank check he told people if your Political Class fails we wont come to lebanon say and fail it did days later the government resigned not only did the politicians have no answers they had like so many before the simply given up who would now fill the vacuum. Hello and welcome to this special edition of conflict zone over the last 4 years weve interviewed several senior lebanese politicians about the inexorable breakdown of their economy and their state institutions what they told us provides an unusually clear insight into the reasons for lebanons intractable crisis we saw it on says to some key questions what has gone wrong who was to blame for the sinking economy and how could the country move forward but instead of answers we got promises of progress of clarity and commitment even transparency that in most cases came to nothing. In february 26th scene i caught up with Gibran Bassil the countrys foreign minister who acknowledged the central feature of lebanese politics demick corruption as well as all the other contradictions that have made it impossible for the state to function. Yes we have corruption in our country but this is why we need to have strong leaders to fight corruption corruption and different factions playing politics yes with a nation that can ill afford it i mean even the patriarch spoke of erosion of your state institutions at the moment as of course the collapse of the states collapsing. Depends how do how you define the collapse we still have at least a family in lebanon we still have values values of how we live how we think towards the other were well aware this is fading completely and other parts are even and strong and prosperous country is you dont see this kind of cohesion that we still have 11 or coalition you failed you look at a president in most years well cohesion is that almost 35 attempts to get a quorum in parliament you have managed to do it you havent passed the budget since 2005 you have a parliament is mandated relative 2013 and had to extend it twice without recourse to the public you havent had legislative elections since 2000. Again this is a complete paralysis of the political body isnt where i guessed on this but when youre under a much amount to another the family against it im not defending the politics and the ban on the politicians not of your one of your living and defending something that belongs to all of us and humanity and defending the idea and the more that we stand the prism of diversity of living together accepting each other where we are different this is what im defending and this is where im seeing the importance of lebannon if we have this model versus the model of what do you choose. You choose the model. Or you still have lebanon where people can still live together because what else can you get so you can get the National Model for how much of this living together was apparent when you see the people protest on the streets of weapons they have done over the last year and they get. Subjected to unacceptable violence by the Security Services. Cannon tear gas but you know in a lot of bullets you know i was among the protesters so i well know whos of violence i let myself to the street because i refuse the situation to sue whos in charge and what is the government at this inshallah we are we are in jail theyre in jail of power because we cannot leave again youre a government that doesnt control your Security Services is that what youre telling me. Even with the security level we still find their feet compare us to other regions other countries around us in the region so again it is a situation that we have to fix how by not imposing. Solution that is ready to share that idea recipe by allowing the libyan east lets let them go to elections and allow them to truly lections reported on since 2005 and we were against this we can continue on because you because your Prime Minister said the levels of force used against demonstrators was unacceptable hes the Prime Minister told to do anything about this yes he stopped it but what happened is that the person who was prosecutors and im telling you i was the prosecutor i was myself on the street nobody who was a fraud well you 3 times to the exegesis because i refute the situation minister you refused the situation but people got beaten up people got hospitalized dozens of people were taken to hospital people were injured all those injuries lets not portray about known as a country where you have a you dont a lot of people to express themselves the we have an excess of them or crises and and about all the people are allowed to speak out whatever your security organization. Out of this hatcher all this and this happened again 11 of the bacon of our freedoms in the region and this happened once we dont take this incident and extrapolate it on our minister they love can you claim to be a beacon of freedom when the allegations of torture carried out by your Security Services are widespread in june last year there was a leaked video showing members of your internal Security Forces torturing inmates in roomier prison north of beirut the interior minister confirmed that the video was authentic this is the kind of beacon of tolerance and coexistence that you say you have where torture is widespread not Human Rights Watch said this was just the tip of the ice a perception. Confirms the rule no we dont have the stomach this is an incident that happened there if you say the this is what happened in the guantanamo doesnt mean that in the us to live the torture this is an incident that happened once and confirmed that with this is not the case and let you know you know very well mr lowy to me this completely because we have so many things that we are not satisfied about and there are but we dont turn it into being a place where people are tortured and yet the reports credible reports of torture have continued to surface in the 4 years since that interview was recorded no change there no change either in any of the sectarian carve ups and political patronage for the fact it and still act as immovable roadblocks to reform. Ever since the civil war the complex power sharing system spawned many factions and warlords who empowered and enrich themselves at the expense of the people they shared between them the spoils the top jobs than the creative contracts and even as they watch the country disintegrate and default the last thing they wanted was to give back the money and relinquish their power in june this year the combative foreign minister at the time not if he was still repeating the same vegas sure and says and the same good intentions the consistent lead nowhere. I hear intentions your Public Sector has been looted for decades by the same sectarian powers that still dominate all this is what were trying if youre senator you never allow me to finish the phrase so im listening to you now you have to tell me what i have you finished perhaps you can get off the treadmill i havent finished the question you think these warlords and power brokers are at your never letting me finish the answer youve been giving me a great answer for a couple of minutes and you think do you think these warlords and power brokers who control so much in lebanon will just sit around while you shine a light on all their dirty dealings and then theyll just say sorry and hand back all the billions that theyve stolen you really think thats going to happen. We are not going to think so thanks for putting this question we know its an uphill struggle we know its a key challenge and you have to stand up to the challenge or fail i know the difficulties i fully agree with you about the seriousness of the challenges about how heavy they are weighing on us since he is but we have to come out with an answer otherwise you will not be taken the road that you promised to take thats a very important matter i fully agree about the challenges the nature of the challenges and the magnitude of the challenges but you have to come out with an answer to these challenges and create a sort of rapture of the past and get on a start on a new foot your your countrys record doesnt inspire confidence does it since the civil war lebanon has promised 4 times to reform in return for 4 it seems to enjoy something about the power you about the future if you want to go into the past you can have a lesson in history now that you have why should anyone trying to tell you we know the stories we learned the lessons we are trying telling the International Community look at look at us and lets see if we succeed we are. Planning to succeed we are committed to success because we have to save our country again i agree with you about your description of the situation which i already know we all know and i again am saying its a major challenge lets see for you if you can succeed in facing up to it and this is the challenge that you are taking on our space to succeed this matter with the cooperation its our primary sponsor ability as the by his government its not an easy matter i fully agree which is a very difficult matter because of this. International system that you rightly described and with which i fully agree with you but this is the only road that we have to take to create a rupture with the past the challenges are very important very deep but we have to take this is the only road to get out of this messy situation but 2 months later mr he took his own road and resigned. Contradicting all the firm assurances hed given in the interview and declaring that the government hed so briefly served had shown a lack of will to reform of course it had to many lebanese the system had long since passed the point where it could be effectively reformed it now needed to be replaced from top to bottom but how to convince the power brokers of that even the slow motion collapse of the state signposted some often and in so many ways still wasnt enough to persuade them that the old game was finally ending your Prime Minister warned last year that lebanon risk becoming a failing state even the most basic services now dont get provided to people how do you let it get so bad. I wouldnt call it love on the failed state when he was able to cope with 50 percent of its population as refugees 200. 00 syrian displaced to lebanon per square kilometer. She said last october ive warned we are moving towards a collapse if Matters Committee here but when when solid state and successful states like in europe were not able to receive more than 10000 refugees and 11 on that it was one half 1000000 i wouldnt we have a very successful mordred. If it fades our model of diversity and coexistence then everything will fade and ministers not successful when you can leave cope with the rubbish on the streets the rubbish you can blame the refugees for that can you know but this is this is our responsibility i cannot deny but this is a system that has become the activists say so inefficient and corrupt that it cant provide basic services depends how you how you measure the success of a society you can have a very democracy and prosperity but no cohesion and society so everything gets this integrated into society that currently of the rubbish will come clear the air for its people puts their health in danger shouldnt be governing she had not defending this but i think you have also political garbage and you have the war garbage that you are witnessing everywhere and i think this is still less costly than having it dealing people thats garbage and killing them like when they have 200000 people and and syria and in the region they are enforcing it but the government that cannot provide basic services isnt worthy of the label of a government is it why dont you reserving because if i find somebody who can clear the law you are you are right on this but the problem is that we have vacancy and if you go to resign you stay there we cannot resign or blushed. Because there will be no government there will be complete void and in lebanon if we had is our stay and gamble with the health of your people no no we should elect a president who should be a representative of his people a strong president was strong popularity and then we will have another government stood there are few in fighting manipulation. And you say this is a model of cooperation more than of coexistence this is a model of political paralysis is something that is yes it is so so one of the but youre really a little early to call paralysis talking of corporations talking of coexistence because in the ban on somehow muslims and christians are still living together in the power sharing more than and parity where this does not exist anywhere else in the world and certainly is and she despite all the tensions around us are still not fighting in the battle and theres no leadership and theres no decisions yes this is from another Central Bank Governor this is guide or sort of the part of this is that we have in the whole region because in lebanon on. How reflected in politics this this will of eliminating the other way are to blame your part of the system of the system that is most broken down a lot of politically another day when they were aware of global and collective responsibility last october thousands of demonstrators angry and frightened called for an end to political corruption and for a new untainted set of politicians to run the country to topple to the fray shes in rapid succession. The protest movement cuts across religious and political lines with demands for the recovery of stolen funds and for the corrupt to be held accountable and there was plenty to account for years of squalor in the streets as politicians bickering over garbage collection contracts and electricity failed for hours on end month after month among those being called out for criticism was that Hezbollah Movement the selfstyled party of god financed by iran and they didnt like it. Lets talk about only long massive street protests that weve seen in lebanon in recent months one moment you seem to be listening to them then you claimed with no evidence that they were being exploited by the u. S. And israel and then last october you sent your thugs to beat up the demonstrators because they dared to criticize your leader absolutely no. Im no im sorry im sorry i dont know you like that im not i dont know that he was sure that we send our people do other proof it was widely reported that at the time when we went against the you know october and december widely you know the media show you what in the media i mean the media this is a massive voter measure there we dont make it out i can tell you i live mr mousawi nobody get up. I live here i tell you. I tell you do it we are not part of those who suppress the people we are with the masses we are with those who are the ones that i think we want to protect them we have the same issue actually we consider mr mousavi in december your supporters attacked an antigovernment protest camp in central beirut and the army had to be called in to disperse the groups around the same time you and your allies from amal targeted other antigovernment protest camps in different parts of lebanon so much for listening to the demonstrators and heeding their demands you beat them up. Simply say this is not the way as a rule or whether you like it or dislike it represents a large component of a society its a Main Political Party political actor and on and everybody is welcome to join and help us and this whether directly being involved directly supportive or not supportive of the government lets see for the observers turner observers and external observers like you say if you succeed you say this and i hear what you say why should the west lift a finger to help a government actively being constructed by hizbullah which is widely viewed around the. Terrorists or on set i think as a point of view so its not absolute reality is widely seen around the world as a terrorist cell and as a noise ation. Is not seen around the concert by some but it is not what this some i dont agree with this view you may disagree either logically politically strategically with a lebanese Political Party or libyas National Resistance movement thats your right to do so but its a major represent a major component of the of any Society Social component and political component what im saying take us to the past as a government telling our western countries with which we are committed to develop the best out of relations culturally politically socially economically strategically with the western countries are very close to most of those countries who have very good relations which want to develop to deepen strengthen and a lot of these western countries take us to test about what we are doing what we are planning to do not and about what is said here or there or about any ideological sloganeering or at the logical views according to the Drug Enforcement agency has been increasingly relies on criminal revenue from sources that include the lebanese Diaspora Group members affiliates and such are the organization is even competed for Money Laundering contracts in the same. As colombian drug cartels and other criminal organizations so you belong with some shady new groups on the International Crime scene dont you you can you can continue to mention only if you want to continue this episode as long as you want you can continue to mention as much as you want of examples but this is not going to change the truth that these are things are put in the most of the western media against hezbollah or against any. Religious stance move against an existence group in order to distort the image in order to justify and he suggests against that you asked for examples i gave you so lets talk if we may about your support for the Assad GovernmentBashar Al A