Transcripts For ESPRESO 20240703

Of religious organizations associated with the Moscow Church in the First Reading, there was a fight in the parliament between people s deputies of ukraine, who tried in some way to prevent this vote, lets see, she is 30 years old, on my hand, you see how the orthodox in the pubic mps of ukraine who defend the Russian Orthodox Church Within the walls of the Verkhovna Rada, like them. We just constantly had a grilling of what they said in the session hall of the Verkhovna Rada of ukraine. Well, friends, for those who are currently watching us on youtube, please like our video so that it is trending on youtube, and also take part in our vote, today we are asking you whether you support the banning of the roc branch in ukraine, yes, no, or your option, please write in. In the comments under this video, or write your general opinion about what you observed today in the Verkhovna Rada of ukraine, and in general, how you feel about the activities of the branch of the Russian Orthodox church in ukraine. Mykola knyazhytskyi, peoples deputy of ukraine, is in touch with us. Mr. Mykola, i congratulate you and i am glad to see you on our air. Congratulations to each other. So, today the Verkhovna Rada of ukraine supported it in the First Reading. A draft law banning the activity of religious organizations in ukraine connected to russia, which may terminate activities of the ukrainian Orthodox Church of the moscow patriarchate, you were the author of the bill numbered 822, but the Verkhovna Rada of ukraine preferred, or rather, voted for the bill that was being prepared by the government, and the issue is quite simple, and i hope. Will you explain to all tv viewers how your bill differed from the governments and why your bill was not put to a vote at all . Well, first of all, the government project was adopted only in the First Reading and we will have to finalize it quite seriously before the second reading. Secondly, everyone factions of the Verkhovna Rada insisted that other projects were put to the vote, in particular the one where i am a coauthor of 821. But two factions spoke, not two factions, but two groups and one faction spoke against, these are the two groups that were created from the deputies of the former opzh party and the servant of the people faction, they supported only the presentation of the government project. The government project does not prohibit it at all, the uocp says that it is necessary to prohibit the activities of religious organizations with centers in the country of the aggressor, but for this purpose it provides a very complicated procedure. First, it is necessary to. Conduct a theological examination of each religious organization, and there are more than 10,000 of them in the uocp, after the religious examination is carried out, this organization can go to court, and the court must then appoint a forensic examination, and the problem is that , that we do not have judicially Certified Experts who would be rally experts in the country, and there are no methods that should be, already at this stage this ban may be blocked, even if such with a center in country of the aggressor exists, but if it is not blocked, after that the state service for ethnopolitics of freedom of conscience must issue a prescription, this prescription this is a document that does not have any mandatory execution according to the current legislation, it is just a piece of paper that informs this or that religious organization, this prescription and its extract can also be challenged in court, if it is not challenged, then after that the state can sue, and this court will consider it, well, i dont even know how many, different options are possible, example, the communist party was banned for 8 years, and it was only one organization, not 10,000 organizations. They filed, a decision was made to liquidate them in the 14th year, they tried, and this trial dragged on until 2022, and only in the 22nd year, already after a fullscale invasion, the communist party was finally banned. Thus, we will try to correct these project norms in amendments to the second reading. I dont know if we will succeed, but it will be very difficult to do. Because now this project is a government project for a reason. When when the chairman of the Verkhovna Rada met with representatives of the allukrainian council of church religious organizations, even a representative of the uocp supported him. Well, that is, this bill that has just been passed, it delays the procedure, or at all makes it impossible to ban the activity as such a branch of the Russian Orthodox church, it will simply be a ban on each parish, relatively speaking, and it can last there for decades, right . 50, 100 years, i dont know how long it can last, uh, sure, its, its, its, well , actually, its, not a ban, but a mock ban, for patriotic speeches, for that everyone applauds and praises themselves, but at the same time, it is a positive step because it essentially opens the door and shows the political will of the parliament to move in this direction, so from this point of view, it is even revolutionary, but it will not to have a result, maybe we will be able to achieve a result if, together with our colleagues, we can conduct and submit amendments that will make it more effective. Although the very approach to the formation of this project, it is wrong from the very beginning, because it is not the court that should ban religious organizations, but the state has to show the will, and thats why our draft 8221 is just that and it provides that according to the human rights convention, according to the decision of the European Court of human rights, uh, this organization, if it supports, all their organizations, if they support relations with the centers in moscow are actually with the roc, then they should be banned, if they break this relationship with the roc, they can work. That is, the draft law itself is not directed against one or another denomination in ukraine, it is directed precisely to sever and terminate these relations with the Russian Orthodox church. This is the most important thing and, in addition, our project determines the fate of the property, because if these relations are not terminated, the property will be confiscated, lease agreements will be terminated, and it will be given to the state. In this. There is not a single word about property in the second project, but you see that the kievpecherskian thing is happening in the lavra, this is an imitation, because, well, in part, at least, because in part these moscow priests were expelled from there, but they remained in several rooms of the lavra and continued there working, they would have to issue some sort of summons, and then the sbu could to go there, and no one wants to issue these subpoenas, in a word, this whole process is being sabotaged, i am not talking about the Pochaiv Lavra and other ukrainian laurels, and our law regulates this issue too, the Government Law. Does not regulate this at all, therefore the Government Law is, to put it mildly, imperfect, in fact weak, and in this form it will only strengthen the Russian Orthodox church in ukraine, because they will shout about persecution, apply to international organizations, shout it at the international level, in return nothing will happen in ukraine, all 10,000 courts will be waiting, which are to be held there five or six more times, and of course we would like to somehow do it more effectively, today yuri boyko, the former leader of the opzh faction and Yevgeny Shevchenko actively spoke against. The government bill, lets listen to what they said, article 35 of the constitution , it separates the church and the state, religious organizations from the state, if anyone wants to accept, dear colleagues , please, the ukrainian Orthodox Church is historically kyivan, the church of the kyivan rus, we are the descendants of the kyivan rus, great ukraine, this is what happened, this is history, at the cathedral on may 22, 2022, the ukrainian Orthodox Church made a decision condemning cyril, separated from muscovy, and now it is declared independent, so what is being said here is a lie, it is the first. What about traitors, we have more traitors in the Security Service of ukraine, in the police than in the Orthodox Church, so now, should we ban the Security Service of ukraine and the church . Well, he could go on and say that there are no less traitors in the Verkhovna Rada than in the sbu and the ministry of internal affairs, well, in this case, we are talking about boyko and shevchenko, and not only about dmytrouk, about many peoples deputies who were once members of opzh faction, a party that is already banned in ukraine, but they sit in the Verkhovna Rada of ukraine. How, in the conditions when this fifth column is preserved in the Verkhovna Rada and continues to work and continues. To vote or not to vote for laws, how to make decisions in such a situation and in what way to limit the right to vote for such peoples deputies from a party that no longer exists, but they sit in the Verkhovna Rada, well, look, i think that despite the fact that they are there they sit and its a shame, they dont affect anything, but in this case there was will the president , so that this draft law would be adopted in the First Reading, we were told about this by the progovernment deputies. Faction of the servant of the people, as soon as there is the will of the president , there are votes and everything goes normally, and i believe that the president will still listen, and this bill, will give the command to vote for the improved one, so that it will be effective, and she will also be convinced of that , that our bill 8221, which really complies with all International Norms and essentially bans the activities of this church very quickly and returns their property to the state, thats what the president. Too will make sure that it needs to be done, especially since we have already seen information today from the Security Service of ukraine that they are actually creating, or from guru that they are creating military units in the Russian Orthodox church, private military companies that will fight in ukraine, this its just a shame that they continue to exist and work in ukraine, and nothing really depends on these traitors, they simply shouldnt be in the council, but if there is the will of the president , they will be adopted into. More effective laws. I will say for ours tv viewers, that mykola knyazhytsys documentary, called Church Without christ, has just been released, a beautiful name and meaning about the activities of the Russian Orthodox church in ukraine. We will show a small trailer and you can watch this film on mykola knyazhytsys Youtube Channel in the description under this youtube video, there will be a link to this film. Lets watch a small trailer. A decision was made to conduct a special military operation. This is just an illustration of a much bigger and more dangerous story. As in 30 years the Russian Orthodox church in ukraine has evolved from agitators of the russian world to terrorists, if it were not for the activities of the Russian Orthodox church, there would be no war. Kyiv Pechersk Lavra is the first monastery of kyiv rus. We all believe in our victory and want peace to come after that, we were driven to the church, we were taken out like this , passports were collected, there are snipers on the perimeter, how can we speed up the victory, who is preventing us from ending the war on our terms and helping the enemy to nurture false illusions. We firmly know that the russian world is Russian Orthodoxy is wreaking war on us with psychological preparation, the russian peace will come and we need to accept it with flowers, they are going to return here, few people talk about it out loud, but the Russian Orthodox church in ukraine is a huge landowner, the amount of its real estate can be envied by the richest people, president s, the employees of his office should hear that the ukrainians have lost patience, and thats it. Because of that, my bill is called about ensuring the strengthening of National Security in the sphere of freedom of conscience and the activities of religious organizations, because it is not about religion, but about state security. I do not propose to ban the church, i demand to ban an organization that is part of the russian state machine, the same as the army, the fsb, and it has always been so. To ban the activities of the Russian Church, we have all the tools, both our bill and public support, what is missing is the president s decision. Volodymyr zelenskyi and the majority vote in the parliament. We need to put pressure on the government so that victory and peace come as quickly as possible. Everything will work out for us. Glory to ukraine, mykola, you have already said that today, the Security Service of ukraine announced that the Russian Orthodox church in russia is creating its own private military companies, in particular , the private military company Andrews Cross was created in st. Petersburg, which operates on the basis of the kronstadt maritime cathedral in st. Petersburg, and recruits representatives within the walls of the religious institution. Parishioners for further inclusion in the composition of groups of the Russian Federation, which are involved in the frontline, are declared to the Security Service of ukraine. So, considering the activities of the Russian Orthodox church in russia and ukraine, why it was not possible to go through the decision of the council of National Security and defense that this church is a threat to National Security and defense and ban this church, as was the case with three Television Channels at one time. Viktor medvedchuk, when it became clear that these channels work for moscow, well, look, it is more difficult to ban the church than the channels, due to the fact that freedom of conscience in every country is very closely monitored by international organizations, and it is definitely important for us, even with the point of view that we want to be members of the european union, this is not a matter for the National Security council, the National Security council does not have such powers, but the Verkhovna Rada has the right to adopt a law prohibiting it on this basis, of course. It is possible and necessary , the Verkhovna Rada has such powers, if the Verkhovna Rada does it, it it will be great, about the Russian Orthodox church, just the other day, the patriarch, the socalled patriarch of the Russian Orthodox church, kyrylo gundyaev, during his speech at the faith and word festival of the Orthodox Church , spoke about mass media and how Nuclear Weapons in the Russian Federation under under the patronage of seraphim of seransko. Was created, these are very important, important statements that characterize the Russian Orthodox church, lets see, lets see this is of course, a powerful ammunition kit that some people use to achieve their goals, an ammunition kit, because with a word you can kill a person, with a word you can achieve what is not possible. With what kind of weapon, radi ivanovich i would boldly say this, a great russian scientist, he heads the nuclear center, the same one that was created by kurchatov, if it were not for the work of kurchatov, radi ivanovich and their colleagues, brothers, it is difficult to say whether our country would exist if they created weapons. Under the auspices of the rev. Seraphim of sorovsky, because according to gods unspeakable providence, this weapon was created in the monastery of the reverend seraphim. Mr. Mykola, if the government bill is finally adopted in ukraine and this law comes into effect, and the Russian Orthodox church will still have 10,000 parishes or 9,000 parishes, how does this threaten the future of ukraine . No, well, if the government bill is adopted with with the amendments that we will develop, in principle it will be more effective, and the government bill itself is not threatened by this, but the inaction of the authorities threatens, for example, we have already adopted a law on renaming, the socalled, which says that if the church has its center in russia, is part of the Russian Orthodox church , it should be called the Russian Orthodox church, not the ukrainian Orthodox Church, and it has already been confirmed that this draft law is constitutional, but it is not implemented, well, just the leaders are enough military administrations to implement it, to deregister all these towns until they change their name, as required by law, but they are not doing it, thats what i see as the biggest problem, if its not going to happen, then its obvious it will be an incentive for putin to continue the war, it will be an opportunity for the clerics of these churches to further engage in. Espionage activities, point weapons at ukrainian soldiers, the ukrainian military, humiliate the ukrainian state and demonstrate to the whole world that putin is right, when he says that he is going to defend the russian world, because supposedly ukraine belongs to the russian world, and ukraine is not the russian world, ukraine is, it is the ukrainian world, it is an independent state with which this russian world is at war, which has its own language, our army and our faith, because of that, of course, we just have to do it immediately, the second problem that can arise is in the regions, because six regional councils, for example, called to adopt our law 8221, even more City Councils called to do it , in many regions, people actually come sometimes physically expel these russian cops from these temples, and this leads to conflicts, and in some regions there may be fewer of them, in others , on the contrary, they will stay and conduct ideological work, ancient antiukrainian ideological work among voters, which they are doing even now, because they actually act as a sect, so obviously this will weaken our state and delay the achievement of peace, and we are simply obliged to do it, obviously, when you were preparing your draft law, you studied how ukrainians choose churches, before which they go to, where they baptize their children, well, accordingly, where is the choice between the ocu and where is the choice between the uoc, the moscow patriarchate, that is , in what way do you think it is possible to explain to ukrainians that there is a war, and that church, to which they were accustomed to always go to, that it is a church that is part of a large branch. Roc in ukraine, that it is not really a ukrainian Orthodox Church . Well, look, first of all, 85 of ukrainians are in favor of banning the activities of the Russian Church in ukraine, 85 is a lot, and those who go to this church are significant some of them are not against ukraine, but when the transition takes place, the same congregation, i spoke with those people, which was the Russian Church, then the majority voted for them to become ukrainians. They moved to the ocu, and some of those people who went to this Russian Church continue to go to the same church, its just not close to them, and they accept it completely calmly, they understand that it was the will of the majority, if it will be the will state, then lawabiding people will obey the will of the state, they will not will oppose this, because no one in principle, if it is a transition, and if the church itself at the level of bishops, will say that we are really leaving the Russian Orthodox church, we are writing. We certify this, we do not have any relations with them, we will never communicate with them, talk on the phone , write letters, we will not join the synod of this Moscow Church, other governing bodies, we will surrender our russian passports, in the end , as the head of this church, and we will burn and destroy them, and we will publicly renounce this russian citizenship, and we will this is also legal, but if they do all this, then no one forbids them to rule and serve, they can be their own independent structure, the main thing is that they are not. an instrument of moscow, by the way, in the uoc itself, in a branch of the Russian Orthodox church , believe that the draft law 8371, adopted today by the Verkhovna Rada in its First Reading, does not comply with the European Convention on human rights and the constitution of ukraine. Of course, they will appeal to this, to the European Convention, to the constitution of ukraine and will obviously defend their position if the draft law whether the law will be adopted already in the final. Editors in European Courts, taking into account the practice of applying ee, from european legislation and how they consider how likely it is that a branch of the Russian Orthodox church will seek the cancellation of this bill or in some way interfere with the implementation of this bill or law in ukraine, or will File Lawsuits with the European Court of human rights, even if they lose here in ukraine and the European Court of human rights will annul the decision ukrainian courts, it is quite possible, because this law is unfortunately not perfect, the convention on the protection of human rights, it just says that you can ban any organization when it poses a threat to National Security, but this should be done by law, not by the court, because every court, one court will make such a decision, another will make such a decision, and these decisions of the courts are not in the ecj, they are simply overturned there, which is why i also consider this law to be unfortunately imperfect today. We have already mentioned the fifth column, which is in verkhovna to the council of ukraine, today the platform for life and peace is the former opzh, i will tell our viewers, and the restoration of Ukraine Group voted against this draft law, and simply put, for the continued existence of the roc branch in ukraine. On october 17, the Kyiv Regional Council supported the draft decision on the deprivation of powers of mps from opzh until the end of the war, in the country, why cannot the Verkhovna Rada of ukraine take this path and limit the voting or participation of mps from opzh, former mps from opzh, although there are no former ones, in the Verkhovna Rada to the council of ukraine, because it turns out to be some simple nonsense that the party is hostile to ukraine, it is banned in ukraine, and the deputies represent the interests of the party, which is already banned, and the voters who voted for this party, and it turns out that the whole. The country should depend, either, they affect the whole country, either by voting or not voting for certain laws, well youre right, actually, but that doesnt happen. Because in principle they vote as the government says, and they vote for the government when the government is not enough votes for their laws, then these frightened conservatives vote for their laws in such cases, here they knew that there would be votes and they did pr for themselves in front of moscow, showing what defenders of Russian Orthodoxy they are, and when there are not enough votes, they give, therefore the authorities are not interested in depriving themselves of these additional votes of these puppetsadjusters. The Security Service of ukraine also submitted a legislative proposal regarding the draft law on amending article 16 of the law on freedom of conscience and religious organizations and where clearly it was determined that the activity of religious organizations , the authorization of persons convicted of crimes against the basis of National Security of ukraine, for violation of the equality of citizens, for participation in terrorist acts, for propaganda of war, participation in it on the side of the aggressor, are terminated by court decision. Violation of the laws of war, genocide and mercenary, why in this situation, when it is really about National Security and defense, still the sbu did not play one of the important roles regarding the future of the roc branch in ukraine, well, the sbu plays a role, we see 68 priests, it seems that they have raised suspicions, this is very little, if they have 10,000 churches and several priests in each, this is obviously very. Little, but here they are , they initiated this law, and we submitted it as deputies, i am also its coauthor, i do not think that it will be very effective, but if it is needed by the sbu, it will help them work and neutralize the terrible influence of the Russian Church in ukraine , then obviously we will accept it, because if we accepted our 8221, then everything would be normal it is much simpler, and this law would have already been introduced in the halls, but unfortunately, one of the deputies submitted an alternative draft law, and according to the law, it is necessary to wait a certain time before it can be introduced. Another fragment from your film Church Without christ. Friends, i remind you that there is a link to this movie in the description under this video. Please go to the Youtube Channel of mykola knyazhytsy, put a favorite and watch this film, quite an important film, about how the roc branch works in ukraine, there is a map from our colleagues from the independent anticorruption center, where it is indicated how many buildings, how many land plots are under the uoc mp, therefore. 2876 buildings, 3798 plots of land, these data do not take into account property registered to natural persons associated with the uocp, only those belonging to the uoc as public organizations, you can see everything red on the map of ukraine, this is all a branch of the Russian Orthodox church in ukraine. At the very end, mr. Mykola, can you say what are the prospects that this draft law will be in the second, well, maybe even the third reading, or the repeated second reading, how likely is it that in a short in the future, this law will be adopted and signed primarily by the president of ukraine. Well, i want to say right away that this map that you showed was prepared by your colleagues from the ngl media site, it is such an investigative site from lviv, the former site is our money lviv, now it is called ngl media, i want to thank them of course for this work, as much as it is will be fast effectively in 14 days, we have to submit amendments, well, this law has been there for many months before the First Reading, it seems since the new year, if not longer, because ours has definitely been there for more than a year is located and not brought into the hall, it will depend on the political will of the majority and the ukrainian authorities, how it will change, we will see, i believe that this should be done urgently. Thank you, mr. Mykola, for the conversation, it was mykola knyazhytskyi, peoples deputy of ukraine. Friends, we are working live on the tv channel. As well as on our youtube and facebook platforms, for those who are currently watching us live on youtube and facebook, be sure to like this video to get trending on youtube and facebook, and participate in to our survey, today we ask you about the following do you support the banning of the roc branch in ukraine . Two options, yes, no, or your option, what do you think about this church, about its activities in ukraine, especially during the great war of russia against. Ukraine, please leave it in the comments below this video. Next we have glen grant, a colonel in the british army, a retired military expert, a colonel in the british army. Mr. Colonel, i congratulate you, i am glad to see you on our air. You, glad to be with you again. Sir colonel, head of the Main Intelligence Directorate of the ministry of defense of ukraine