Good morning. Its 930 on good morning. Its 930 on thursday, the 28th of september. This is britains newsroom on gb news. With me, Andrew Pierce and emily carver. It is lawless britain. The community in south london are grieving the loss of a 15 Year Old Girl who was stabbed to death in her School Uniform. A 17 year old boy has been arrested. This is every parents worst nightmare. And i know the nightmare. And i know the officers who responded this morning along with our Emergency Service colleagues, are devastated at the victims death i that was the local police chief superintendent Andy Brittain , and government brittain, and government minister Richard Holden has told gb news breakfast they are not ruling out a massive ramping up of stop and search powers to tackle knife crime. Tackle knife crime. Im certainly not against that. Weve got there are powers there and local Police Forces can use them when necessary. When there are issues on the ground. We need to get these ground. We need to get these knives off the street in a gb news exclusive. News exclusive. The mayor of manchester, andy burnham, has told us how he wants to clean up Greater Manchesters air without out a ulez style charging zone. Finally, the people of Greater Manchester and now the bosses of the buses. Its the bosses of the buses. Its the other way around. Good for him. War on good for him. War on motorists. Wales is new 20 mile an hour speed limit is causing ructions and buses are running late and its forced one major operator to change its timetable. Were in north wales to get the latest. Already over to get the latest. Already over after just being enforced for 11 days here in wales. Theres a huge petition of over 400,000 people calling for this 20 mile an hour limit to be scrapped. Ill have the latest. Scrapped. Ill have the latest. That was our very own jack carson, of course. And the Climate Change minister in the Welsh Government. Hes in big trouble. A petition, i think, 450,000 people saying he should be sacked. Be sacked. Its very interesting that andy burnham is ruling out a ulez style scheme. Yeah very interesting politics there. Yeah opposed to the london as opposed to the london mayor, khans ulez scheme, mayor, sadiq khans ulez scheme, which seen poll lead which has seen his poll lead shnnk which has seen his poll lead shrink just three points in shrink to just three points in the mayoral mayoral race. Which more popular , i which is more popular, i wonder andy or sadiq . Let us wonder andy or sadiq . Let us know and do let us know what you think about that dreadful tragedy, that stabbing in london of girl. Do you of 15 Year Old Girl. Do you think it is time for more . Stop and search or do you worry about discrimination and things like that around that issue . Do let us know. Vaiews gbnews. Com. But before we get stuck in, lets get the news with. Lisa good get the news with. Lisa good morning. Morning. Its 934. Im lisa hartle in the newsroom. Rose and local transport minister Richard Holden says the government will not stop. Not roll out, stop and search after a 15 Year Old Girl was stabbed to death on her way to school in south london. A 17 year old boy who knew the victim is being questioned in custody after being arrested in croydon yesterday morning. Just over an hour after the attack. Tributes have been paid with the members of the public leaving flowers and near the scene. The and cards near the scene. The girls school described her as a valued friend and pupil. Girls school described her as a valued friend and pupil. The valued friend and pupil. The labour leader has denied launching an attack on private schools with his plans to impose vat payments on fees if he wins an election. Sir keir starmer says hes comfortable with the institutions he wants to ensure state schools are of equal quality. He also encourages private schools not to raise fees due to the additional costs imposed by the policy. It imposed by the policy. It experts are calling on the Prime Minister to prioritise ai ethics dunng minister to prioritise ai ethics during a safety summit next month. A survey by bcs, the chartered institute for it, found that 88 of tech experts want the uk to lead in setting Global Ethical standards for al. The government says its actively working with partners to develop ethical standards. To develop ethical standards. New laws in Northern Ireland have been implemented, preventing the public from attending trials for serious Sexual Offences. The law extends Sexual Offences. The law extends the anonymity for victims until 25 years after their death and provides anonymity for. Suspects until they are charged. The measures suggested by sir john gillans review aims to protect victims and encourage reporting of sexual crimes. You can get of sexual crimes. You can get more on all of those stories by visiting our website , visiting our website, gb news. Com. Visiting our website, gbnews. Com. Now back to andrew and bev. And bev. Well, huge story , isnt it . Well, huge story, isnt it . And a terrible story. As sarah and a terrible story. As sarah vine wrote in the daily mail today, every parents nightmare. You wave off your child school , you wave off your child school, she gets on the school bus, stabbed to death in a School Uniform , 15 across all of the uniform, 15 across all of the papers as you can imagine, every single paper, i think, is highlighting this horrendous. Its got to the stage where there is a shock factor when it comes to these things, but people getting used to knife people are getting used to knife crime being normal and knife crime being normal and knife crime getting younger and younger. The younger. The victims and the perpetrators. So really is perpetrators. So it really is quite shocking. Machete, machete, blade and a 17 year old has been arrested. 17 year old has been arrested. And obviously, we cant get into the detail here. But this is happening not just in london. Happening notjust in london. Its happening in inner its happening in our inner cities across country. Cities across the country. Happening across the its happening across the country. Are a of country. And there are a lot of questions, arent there really . Questions, arent there really . And stop this . Who is and how can we stop this . Who is to blame . Is it the perpetrator . Is issue parental is there an issue of parental responsibility is there responsibility or is there something going in our something going wrong in our culture, social media . Why something going wrong in our culithese social media . Why something going wrong in our culithese kids cial media . Why something going wrong in our culithese kids being edia . Why something going wrong in our culithese kids being able� why something going wrong in our culithese kids being able to hy something going wrong in our culithese kids being able to get are these kids being able to get their hands on these machetes . Were to find out more were going to find out more about our about that later from our investigates. Reporter charlie peters. Does seem as peters. But it does seem as though were at a crisis point. And ive been looking at the numbers very interesting. Stop and search is massively down from its peak in sort of 2009, 2010. And whenever people say we need more, stop and search, theres always quite a backlash because, of course, black men are more likely to be stopped. Are more likely to be stopped. Also, asian ethnic minority are also more likely to be stopped than white people. So how can we make stop and search work . Because if its taking knives off the streets, then i think there should be more of it, dont you . Need to talk to one of our we need to talk to one of our guests studio, of guests here in the studio, of course, our very course, whos our very own estimate, apart being estimate, who, apart from being a fabulous presenter is a fabulous presenter here, is a tory esther theresa may, as tory mp, esther theresa may, as home secretary she was one who said, weve got to scale back, stop and search because of the impact disproportionately , she impact disproportionately, she said, on the black community. Now thats changed since priti patel home secretary but patel became home secretary but that got to be more stop and that has got to be more stop and search. Isnt that the answer . One of the answers . Agree with that. Well, i agree with that. I think youve got to look at prevention and what are the various routes to prevent people having knives, are having these knives, which are illegal. So cant say the illegal. So you cant say the knives to be you knives need to be illegal. You cant something more cant make something more illegal already is. Illegal because its already is. So got to look at the so youve got to look at the prevention. So stop and search. Yes, quite right. People yes, youre quite right. People thought the sensitivities. Thought about the sensitivities. It impacted black people and ethnic minorities disproportionately. However, what also say the what i would also say the victims of these crimes also , victims of these crimes also, though, impacted disproportionately people of black and ethnic minority. Black and ethnic minority. Therefore, i would say, of course , youve got to do more course, youve got to do more stop and search. Im interested in the victim. Right. And therefore and its always got to be intelligence led, which it was. Its not anybody. There will be intelligence led to why youd be stopping those of course, weve got to do more of it. But esther, i think a lot of conservative would conservative mps would agree with people in the government. So why have do you think so why have why do you think stop search has fallen from stop and search has fallen from a peak of 1. 5 million in 2009 to now only 547,000 . Stop and searches . Why has there been searches . Why has there been that massive drop . Because there was an outcry about this disproportionate city. And i guess you listen to the public, i have to say those of the left did the biggest sort of the left did the biggest sort of we do not want this and they stopped it. And then i would say we werent bold enough as conservatives to go fonnard with this. Theresa may didnt want to do any more. However, that is in the past. We are here now. We can look at those numbers. I think we can now talk about it in a far more rational way. Think we can now talk about it in a far more rational way. Yes, in a far more rational way. Yes, theres a disproportionality , theres a disproportionality, but like i said, both ways stopped and search, but also the victims. And we want to stop this before we bring in norman victims. And we want to stop this beyou we bring in norman victims. And we want to stop this beyou wantring in norman victims. And we want to stop this beyou want tog in norman victims. And we want to stop this beyou want to ask norman victims. And we want to stop this beyou want to ask you nan victims. And we want to stop this beyou want to ask you about baker, you want to ask you about machetes, because rishi sunak, at the end of august said we are going stop these machetes. Going to stop these machetes. Be banned theyre going to be banned from. Were going from. So were going to be showing little in the showing a little later in the programme easy it is to buy programme how easy it is to buy one. Why has it taken so one. Esther why has it taken so long can can they not long and can they can they not just do it in one day because therell be all Party Agreement . Surely they are banned. It isnt problem they are isnt the problem that they are illegal. That, as illegal. Its the fact that, as i cant make anything i said, you cant make anything more than it but more illegal than it is. But then it is the oversight. So not only stop and search of individuals as youre now going to to into places to have to go into the places where they being sold, you where they are being sold, you are to to do far more are going to have to do far more of seeing where the source is and on that as and clamping down on that as well. Said, all of well. As said, all forms of prevention because it isnt going single route to going to be a single route to stop and then stop this. Is there. And then youre to have to look as youre going to have to look as well at the sentencing. We might talk about that in moment. You talk about that in a moment. You know, there are sentencing if youre carrying a knife, you know, sentence of four know, a maximum sentence of four years, youre carrying years, if youre carrying it without our without a purpose. So our minimum rates, if youre caught with however , youre with it twice, however, youre this happening. A third of this isnt happening. A third of people and by the last reckoning werent even though werent sentenced even though they should have been because it was repeat offence. Thats the was a repeat offence. Thats the problem. Is to problem. Sentencing is to prevention and deterrent. And also how do we stop young men, particularly young black men, particularly young black men, thinking its cool to leave the house in the morning with a blade because thats whats happening, right . So this boy, we cant get into details , but we cant get into details, but also say as well as a societal issue and weve all got to come together on it. You mentioned before, emily, there about parental responsibility. Im wondering how did a child leave the house to go to school with a machete . Amazing what is going on in a household to think that that was acceptable . Yeah absolutely. Norman, what do you think . Do you think stop and search is an illiberal policy . Because, of course, if you are stopped and searched, its not very nice, is it not . Well, i looked at this a great deal when i was Crime Prevention minister in the government. Actually came government. It actually came within area and esthers within my area and esthers picked up one word, which is absolutely right, which is prevention and prevention. And prevention and prevention. And when you get to stop and search is too late because you is almost too late because you only a number of only pick up a small number of weapons at that particular point, of them will get point, most of them will get through because you cant stop and search everybody. So the idea must be to try to dissuade people from having knives with them first place. Now two them in the first place. Now two things i saw quite well. Things i saw worked quite well. We do more of those. One we need to do more of those. One was having diverse , was actually having diverse, ordinary activities for young people, or 2 really people, and i saw 1 or 2 really good examples where kids who had been street were actually been on the street were actually taken to with to deal taken off to deal with to deal with boxing or to deal with other diverted other activities which diverted them onto something useful. Yeah. And secondly, there was an organisation , i think its organisation, i think its called red thread from my memory , young people themselves , where young people themselves whove been subject to knife crime be employed , crime would then be employed, tried to and see someone who tried to go and see someone who had been stabbed. I mean a young person whod been carrying a knife had been stabbed because they able to get stabbed they were able to get stabbed at see they involved in see if they were involved in themselves. And then we go down to and say, look, to the hospital and say, look, guys, this is not guys, you know, this is not sensible. Really want to sensible. Do you really want to get with this and waste get involved with this and waste your life like this . So you know their own compatriots, their own age, to dissuade age, were to going dissuade them. Things age, were to going dissuade them. Work things age, were to going dissuade them. Work quite things age, were to going dissuade them. Work quite well. Igs age, were to going dissuade them. Work quite well. So i actually work quite well. So i think we do need to look at prevention, win back one stage as well other things like prevention, win back one stage as well sure her things like prevention, win back one stage as well sure we things like prevention, win back one stage as well sure we try ngs like prevention, win back one stage as well sure we try to; like prevention, win back one stage as well sure we try to clamp down making sure we try to clamp down on availability of machetes. On the availability of machetes. An issue in is there an issue also in some houses where there the some houses where there is the absence male . That problem . Norman it is. It is. And actually without without being controversial, there are particular Elements Society particular elements of society where more where fathers are more absent than society. Where fathers are more absent thanthat society. Where fathers are more absent thanthat can society. Where fathers are more absent thanthat can be society. Where fathers are more absent thanthat can be a society. Where fathers are more absent thanthat can be a problem. Ety. And that can be a problem. Theres no father figure there. You can control what young, what boys esther was boys do, but also, esther was right. Another thing, we have to make uncool carry these make it uncool to carry these things. People think its things. Why do people think its cool to carry knife . Actually cool to carry a knife . Actually sometimes think its sometimes they do think its cool. Sometimes they think theyre attacked. Theyre going to be attacked. And in their and its a way, in their analysis of protecting themselves of weapon on them. Well, its so widespread on on social media. Yeah. And it is cool. And it does as say, cool. And it does as you say, a dearth of male positive male role models. Well, perhaps in the home. Agree with that . I do. And then i look how have youd think young kids from youd say decent families ended up in gangs and then you look at sort of the various issues that have into that because you have gone into that because you know , been at that as know, been looking at that as you you know, in your you would, you know, in your constituency surgeries and you might instance where might have an instance where theres kid every day theres a young kid every day bullied school and bullied going into school and then somebody says, well stop then somebody says, well stop the bullying. You wont be the bullying. You wont be bullied anymore. Well protect you time they get you the next time they get bullied , theyre protected. And bullied, theyre pr