Stop the boats. Will they really scrap the rwanda plan . Even if it starts working . Ill also be getting the mood of tory backbenchers with one mp who is standing down at this election, former environment secretary George Eustice and one mp who is fighting his seat. Former minister sir conor burns and author will hutton will join me to discuss his new book, this time no mistakes how to remake britain. Dont go anywhere because once again, weve got a fun packed 90 minutes of politics coming right up. Now to go through the papers this morning. Im delighted to be joined by nigel nelson, senior political commentator gbnews news. Nigel, lovely to see you. Well natalie elphicks defection, it goes on. It goes on and on. Its all over the front page of the mail on sunday. Turncoat mp asks minister to pull strings for husbands sex abuse trial. Tell me about this, because it seems as if shes reached out to the former justice secretary, robert formerjustice secretary, Robert Buckland, after her. We think ex husband Charlie Elphicke was convicted of sexually assaulting two women. And what did she want buckland to do . Well, i mean, this is the allegation thats both in the mail on sunday, as you said, and the sunday times. What you wanted to do was to interfere in the case. She didnt much like the case. She didnt much like the judge for a start. The other thing that she particularly objected to was the was that the case was coming up directly after covid, and she wanted it to be moved to a lower profile court to try and dampen down, dampen down the interest in it, Robert Buckland sent her away with a flea in her ear. Said it would be totally inappropriate for him to get involved in the, in the judiciary , which is in the judiciary, which is absolutely right now, of course, we do know that Natalie Elphicke was suspended from the commons for a day, and that was for interfering again. This time it interfering again. This time it was to try to stop character references provided by other mps being made public. But either way, she should have known better. You dont interfere with the with the judicial process. Shes apologised , hasnt she . Shes apologised, hasnt she . After Jess Phillips and others called her out in the week following the defection for what they accused her of. Which was they accused her of. Which was victim blaming, she sort of came out with statements after her ex husband was convicted, having a go at the victims and then she said she regretted that. But weve got another number of problems with this defection. You know, shes a right wing tory whos been hugely critical of labour. Shes, according to these newspaper hours, sort of being seen to be trying to cover up her ex husbands trial and conviction. She tried to cover conviction. She tried to cover up that she was a character witness, along with other mps, i mean, hasnt this been a decision by keir starmer thats badly backfired . Nigel i dont think its badly backfired. I think its badly backfired. I think that has it backfired . Well, well, its a profit and loss, isnt it , so well, well, its a profit and loss, isnt it, so on the on the losing side. Yes. Its upset a number of labour mps and especially women labour mps who dont like the way that, Natalie Elphicke defended her husband while he was being , being while he was being, being convicted of sex abuse , on the convicted of sex abuse, on the plus side, there are certain things where she does go along with labour values that she is a Housing Finance expert. Shes talked about that freezing private rents to help with the cost of living. Shes talked about more houses need to be built. Shes talked about no fault of no fault evictions should be banned. So that kind of goes with the labour side. If i was drawing up a list of tory mps who might defect, she wouldnt have been on it. She is a right winger , and so it came a right winger, and so it came as a complete surprise to all of us when we heard about it. I suspect that shes been promised something, because the other intriguing thing about this story is that she isnt standing for re election at the next general election. Weve already got a labour candidate for dover and deal. Therefore shes just switching for this period. We understand shes unimpressed with the government on a number of different levels. On a number of different levels. Theres some talk in the observer this morning that she was annoyed that she didnt get offered a junior ministerial post by rishi sunak. All of these could be reasons, but at these could be reasons, but at the same time its. Just odd to the same time its. Just odd to see her at the heart of labour. She doesnt really belong there. It looks cynical and it therefore looks as if labour is perhaps promised her something for her switching loyalty. Could for her switching loyalty. Could she be in line for a peerage . Perhaps . Labour . Say not. They say that was never dangled there before. Now they have said that before. Now they have said that before. They also said it said before. They also said it said it about dan poulter, who was the previous defector. Yes. That the previous defector. Yes. That peerages didnt come up. I dont think well know the answer to that one until keir starmer is Prime Minister and hes in a position to hand the peerages out. Okay. You talked about other defections. If there is a list going , the sun is reporting the going, the sun is reporting the sun on sunday that there are three tories in kie defection talks. I three tories in kie defection talks. I mean, we cant three tories in kie defection talks. I mean, we cant really talks. I mean, we cant really speculate as to who they might be, but do you think there will be, but do you think there will be more defections . Yes, i do actually. And i think that theyll probably come from the one nation group of tory mps. The question for the tory mps. The question for the one nation group is there is a battle going on for the heart and soul of the conservative party youve got right wingers on one side trying to drag it over to the right, that is not popular with the one nation group of moderates. If. Group of moderates. If. They can actually stay put and influence that debate, i think theyll stay put if they decide, look, the game is up. Frankly, were going to lose the election and lose it badly. I can see a few a few of those defecting. I mean, ive had conversations myself with a few people and not about defection, but about the labour party and their views of the Labour Party Party and the way keir starmer has changed it. So thats been interesting to see thats been interesting to see that they where once theyd have dismissed the labour party out of hand under jeremy corbyn, now of hand underjeremy corbyn, now they dont. Now theyre entertaining it. Now theyre entertaining it. Shall we move on to europol outlets . I know you love your eurovision, nigel. Did you watch it from start to finish last night . I did watch it from start to finish. Really . I avoided it like the plague. Ive never really got into it. Its. Its a wonderful piece of silliness. And thats why its so entertaining. I probably silliness is welcome, although there was nothing particularly silly about the protests outside, or indeed, the protests outside, or indeed, the way that the israeli candidate was made to feel on stage with all of the booing. Yeah, i mean, i found most of the booing was was reserved for the, the European Broadcast Union , which organises, union, which organises, organises eurovision and that was because they allowed israel in in. The first place, now i in in. The first place, now i obviously eden golan and the singer has nothing to do with whats going on. But back home, and on the basis of that, i was pleased to see her able to perform and also the public vote afterwards. Yeah, the public vote. I think the judges put her at 12 and thanks to the public vote, she got up to fifth. Yes, exactly. Yes, exactly. My argument would be shes a 20 year old girl. Shes there to perform. Shes got the right to be proud of her own nation. Absolutely. And i dont know why she did feel that intimidated. Id also beg the question of what on earth Greta Thunberg was doing there. Is this got something to do with Climate Change . I mean , i appreciate the change . I mean, i appreciate the eco warriors say that everythings to do with Climate Change. This cup of tea, your glasses, this remote control. Glasses, this remote control. But im not sure if eurovision is no. And i felt much the same way about that. That as well. I dont think eurovision is. I mean, the whole thing about eurovision is to try and take politics out of it, but the big complaint is a question of if they treat everybody equally. They treat everybody equally. Vie so russia was then thrown out of eurovision , two years out of eurovision, two years ago, and that was because of invading ukraine. Now we have israel in gaza, and the question there is, is there an equivalence . Now what the ebu say is, no, theres not. Theyre saying that the reason that russia was expelled was because their state broadcaster was was broadcasting propaganda. And that goes against their rules on free speech. Yes. There arguing that israel is not doing the same thing. Im sure therell be other people who are saying would would say completely differently. Differently. Time is of the essence. So lets move on to this story about George Galloway, which is in the sunday times. Galloway they allege, lied to millions onune they allege, lied to millions online that mrs. Zelenskyy blew 1 million on jewellery and this is a story really about whether he is being a, quote, useful idiot for russia in trying to smear mrs. Zelenskyy. But on a wider level, i mean, the subdeck of this headline is suggesting that he hasnt been seen much in the constituency of rochdale since he got elected. How much since he got elected. How much of a threat is galloway to the labour party . Do you think you might keep rochdale the general election beyond that . I dont think hes a threat at all, we, even these people who want to be signed up to the Workers Party or indeed the fact that hes rabble rousing a lot of pro palestinian candidates. Of pro palestinian candidates. Yes. Yes. Even then, i mean, his his best signing so far was the england cricket star monty panesan england cricket star monty panesar. And he backed out and he backed out. After seven days, he backed out. After seven days, he decided the Workers Party wasnt for him, in fact. In fact, it doesnt look like politics is actually for him. So that was a big signing , george that was a big signing, George Galloway made a lot of that, put him on a lot of , tv interviews, him on a lot of, tv interviews, and now hes moved away. So at and now hes moved away. So at the end of it all, its a tiny party. George galloway might keep his seat, his own seat. The keep his seat, his own seat. The idea of other people getting seats, i think is unlikely. Okay, lets have a very quick word about the royals. Okay . Weve got the sussexes in nigeria. Theyre sort of putting on their own royal tour, which is interesting. I wouldnt mind your reaction to this story, nigel king calls up the b team, and this is the suggestion in the mail on sunday that princess beatrice, whos the eldest daughter of the duke and duchess of york, might be called up to support the king in some of his duties. She isnt a working royal, but in the absence of the prince of wales, might she be an asset to the team . Nigel . Yes, i think so. And whats just happened over at the palace is theyve had a workload review to see what charles does and what he doesnt do. Hes got a thousand royal patronages. Theyre looking at about, trying to reduce that number not just with his cancer. He is bear in mind 75. So the idea is draft in some of the younger royals, b maybe even her sister eugenie and get them to help him out. And thats okay. I mean, we appreciate the duke of york. Nobody necessarily wants to revive his royal career, but the daughters, they have a good reputation, i think. Yeah, they do like them. And i dont think the sins of the father can be can be visited on the daughters. Quite right. Nigel nelson, thank you very much indeed for your wisdom and experience this morning. Lovely to see you. Coming up next, former secretary of state for the environment George Eustice is going to be joining me in the studio. Dont go anywhere welcome back to gb news. Youre watching the Camilla Tominey show. George eustice, the mp for camborne and redruth. And also the former environment secretary, joins me in the studio now. Thank you for coming in, george. Lovely to see you. Should we start with Natalie Elphicke . Because if you want elphicke . Because if you want to. Yes. Yes. Why are you reluctant to. I mean, the word weird springs to mind. That was so strange on mind. That was so strange on wednesday. What did you make of it all, yeah. Well, she is quite an erratic, you know, individual , erratic politician. So it is an unusual. Do you mean by that . What do you mean by that . What i think shes a bit, a bit unpredictable. Shes. Its never quite clear to work out where shes been on the political spectrum or what . What she wants, i have to say, i kind of rather assume that she was going to carry on and stand again and. And had assumed that the seat in dover would she could stand as a labour candidate. And i dont know whether i mean, she didnt announce she was going. I think, when she first said it. That came a few hours later, and i sort of wonder whether she assumed it would come her way. But i dont know. I mean, you know, we can only obviously look at is she would you categorise her as a loss to the conservative party . How would you categorise it . How would you categorise it . Well, look, i think shes, shes been a difficult, shes been an outlier within the conservative party. So i dont quite know how she fits within the labour party, to be honest. And i think the real, you know, the real thing here. And weve seen, obviously, further stories coming out that, this has backfired a bit on keir starmer. And i think the lesson for him is its not just about doing something clever for pmqs and getting a defector to sit behind you on the benches for that one off event. You do have to think a bit about these sorts of decisions and the message youre trying to convey as a party, and people want to see that theres an Opposition Leader who looks like hes a Prime Minister in waiting, thinking about the serious things not, you know, flitting around, trying to find a defector to get some tactical gain. And i think thats its gain. And i think thats its backfired on him. And i suspect that the shadow cabinet will be saying to keir starmer, never again do Something Like this without consulting us first. And getting our agreement for it. I mean, nigel nelson suggesting that there may be more defections on the cards that one nation tories are looking at labour and thinking, well, theyre much improved since the corbyn days. Maybe we since the corbyn days. Maybe we should entertain this because we want to retain our seats. Want to retain our seats. Well, i think thats quite a dishonourable way to behave and my view on defectors im, i probably similar to, to David Cameron on this. I think everyone when you go into politics, you choose a party thats the closest to your own views , and everyone in politics views, and everyone in politics will have some issues where they differ from the mainstream view in their own party, whether theyre labour or conservative. But under our system, you pick a party thats closest to your views. And my view is you should stick with them. And look, as stick with them. And look, as a backbenchen stick with them. And look, as a backbencher, if there are things the governments doing that you disagree with, well then you are free to vote the other way and to vote with the opposition on certain bits of legislation. But i think defections are its quite a dishonourable way to behave , in my view. I think its behave, in my view. I think its quite craven. I think it says more about the individual who defects than it does about the party that theyre defecting from, it wasnt a great week last week because as well as the defection, we then had Nadhim Zahawi, whos a very experienced former cabinet minister deciding that hes going to stand down at the next general election. That the next general election. That takes a number of tories who are going to stand to down 64. Youre one of those number, does that show a lack of faith in government . Your decision, his decision. Dominic raabs and others to not stand again . No, it doesnt. No, it doesnt. And i think people can, read too much into this. If you look at 2019, a lot of people stood down there. And in fact, you can look at any general election down the ages 2010 election, lots of people stood down, lots of labour mps stood down. At that point. It doesnt show much confidence in rishi sunak, though. I think its more the case that you know, the days of somebody becoming an mp and then wanting to stay there right to the end and right through retirement. I think people theres changed. Peoples aspirations have changed. In my in my case, ill be 53 by the time the next election. A young whippersnapper. A young whippersnapper. Well, exactly. Well, exactly. But young enough to do something else. And ive always been someone in life. When i was David Camerons press secretary, but decided to close the chapter on that and move on to become an mp. Ive always been someone in life who believes he shouldnt unger life who believes he shouldnt linger on the final page of the chapter, you should, you know, proactively close that chapter and move to on the next chapter in life. And thats what im doing. I think its what many of my colleagues are doing as well. And it happened as your colleagues. Also just putting a finger in there and thinking to themselves, im probably going to lose my seat. I dont want to be in opposition for years. Therefore, im getting out now and it does seem a little bit like people are jumping off a sinking ship. Well, i dont really agree because i think theyll have different, different mps. Will have different reasons. Some will want more time with their family, some will want a change of career like me. Some will be close to retirement and feel that its time