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need to get out of this very formal setting of the sistine chapel where they really cannot talk in any informal fashion with one another and get as quickly as they can to the casa santa marta. that's the hotel on vatican grounds where they're staying, to be able to sort of talk amongst one another in ones and twos and tens and '20s. that's where the politics of the conclave unfold. not in the sistine chapel but in the casa santa marta. >> and talking to a vatican insider this morning, he used this expression that you were helping me understand, it goes slowly but eventually -- >> the logjam breaks. >> so this is about finding those points of pressure. figuring their priorities, father beck. what i've been harping on a little bit here this morning, is through three ballots no pope. that means it wasn't simple. it wasn't extraordinarily easy for them? >> we didn't expect it would be. i think if it goes past today, as john has said, all bets are