Is provided by. Woman architect. Bee keeper. Mentor. A Raymond James Financial Advisor tailors advice to help you live your life. Life well planned. George actually, you dont need vision to do most things in life. Its exciting to be part of a team driving the technology forward. I think thats the most rewarding thing. People who know, know bdo. Narrator funding was also provided by, the freeman foundation. And by judy and Peter Blum Kovler foundation; pursuing solutions for americas neglected needs. Announcer and now, bbc news. Kim a warm welcome, im kim chakanetsa. Ive ce to hollywood, to the women and film headquarters where im joined by keri putnam and Stephanie Allain, two women who are working to reshape the industry. They are both part of an initiative founded and led by women in film and the sundance institute, called reframe, whose aim is to advance gender equity. Keri putnam is a film executive and producer and the founder of putnam pictures. Shes served for 11 years as the ceo of the sundance institute, which runs the sundance film festival. Prior to that, she worked as a Senior Executive at miramax and hbo. Shes also the cofounder of reframe. Keri, welcome. Keri thank you, its great to be here. Kim Stephanie Allain is a Film Producer and writer and the newly elected copresident of the Producers Guild of america, the first woman of color to hold that position. Stephanie served nine years as Vice President of women in film. She runs her own company, homegrown pictures, which focuses on creating content by and about women and people of color. Keri and stephanie, welcome to you both. Stephanie yeah, happy to be here. Keri thank you. Kim now, keri, you were set on a career in theater, but there was a plot twist and hollywood came calling. Tell us about what happened. Keri well, that was a very early plot twist in my career. I, um, i was coming out of college and i was gonna go work at a theater, um, and i had a friend who was working at hbo, which at that time was a very um, startup network. Thats a long time ago. Pretty startup network. And she said, well, youre going to go work in the theater, but theres some guy coming whos going to be making plays for television on hbo, you could maybe be his assistant. And so i got that job as a secretary at the very bottom, starting out um, a long time ago. Stephanie they dont say secretary anymore. Keri they did back, they did back then, i had to take a typing test, which i sure did. And, um, you know, uh, then i was, i was very lucky to be hitting a company like that at the time where my rate of growth and knowledge, um, really the company was growing at the same pace, so i was ae to move up there and just learn so much about making film and telling stories, still working with a lot of playwrights and still workinwith a lot of still being close to the writers and the story, which is what i loved. So thats how i got my start, and, um, and then from there, i stayed a really long time at hbo, moved to miramax um, and then got to sundance, so. Kim now, stephanie, you grew up near a cinema, and i understand that youd spend a lot of time outside the cinema trying to get in, tell me about that. Stephanie well, i also love a story. I loved reading. Just i was an avid reader. And the thing that really triggered my interest was two films, the godfather and the exorcist. Id read both books, and i was about 12 years old. I had to sneak into the theater. Kim i was about to ask, how did you see those . Stephanie i stood outside and asked an adult to buy me a ticket um, and i was just blown away by the connection between what was in this book and what was on the screen. And i thought i didnt even, i didnt have the tools to understand that there were movies and directors and producers. But i love stories. I went to school for story for english, um, and then i got pregnant after right after college and i had this baby and i was like, what am i going to do . And somebody told me there was a job called reading, and i was like, reading is a job. Kim get paid to read . Stephanie sign me up. Um, so thats what i did. And, and that just created an opening into the world of cinema for me and then women. It was amy pascal and dawn steel, and um, they recognized my affity for writing and for analyzing material, and they promoted me. And, and the first thing i did was, was find somebody to replace me ithe Story Department because i was the only person of color there. Kim keri, stephanie says two women were instrumental in helping her. Keri yeah. Kim what about you . What helped you succeed in your environment . Keri hmm, i would say, you know, i didnt have the, the luck to have a woman boss early on. But the big boss of original programming at hbo in the 80s was a woman. And she was an incredible force and very rare in that time, and, and she really set um, a kind of a clarity of, of what hbo stood for, what kind of. Stephanie who was that . Keri bridget potter. Stephanie oh, okay. Keri um, and shes been, been a bit written out of the history, actually. But actually, what i found i dont know if you found this, but i found a lot of my strongest mentors and, and supporters in my career have been peers. Stephanie and i think thats true too. One of my peers, and i made more movies with him than anybody was John Singleton and in my first movie, boyz n the hood, i made with him um, and i, and hes the one who really set me on a path of protecting the vision of an auteur which basically taught me how to produce. Kim what an incredible movie to start with, boyz n the hood. Keri yes, it was amazing, yeah. Stephanie i was like, this is easy. Kim i can do this. Stephanie i can do this all day long, you know, yeah. Kim so having worked for the big studios, columbia, hbo, miramax, you both went independent. Um, why was that important for you to do a keri . Keri well, its, im late coming to being independent, i think. Stephanie, stephanie has been a producer for longer, but i felt it was my time to try something new. And i also had never um, bet on myself and done something entrepreneurial. And i felt i wanted to get closer to storytelling. I wanted to be setting my own terms in a way, and using the experiences i had, so im giving it a shot, i just started really. Stephanie oh, shes going to be amazing. Kim is it frightening stepping out on your own . Keri it is, it is, but again, youre, youre caught by the community at, that, that youve, youve come to know and, and people, you know, you can reach out and call and get advice. And, and yes, its frightening, but its also its a time in my life, i think, where, you know, its okay to shake it up a little bit. Stephanie yeah. Kim stephanie, i know you went as far as selling your house to start your own company. Stephanie i did, crazily enough. Kim big move. Keri i didnt know that. Stephanie would not do that again. Yeah, no, i started producing because i was if youre at the studio, its, it is a slog. I was there for a decade, um, but i think it was 20 years ago, yes, 20 years ago this year that i formed homegrown pictures and just decided to bet on myself. You know, i just thought, i dont want to support somebody elses vision. It was basically that. After boyz n the hood many years later, i actually went to john with another script, hustle and flow and i said, we should do this. This was at the advent of people were switching from film into digital. So the idea of making a movie yourself was really for real. You could do that. And, um, i was thinking, yeah, ill sell my house. I just woke up one day and i said, i dont care. I dont care about the house. You know, i had teenage boys. I said, you guys dont care, do you . Theyre like, no, ma, do it. Keri i remember being in the first screening of that movie at sundance, it was amazing. Stephanie wasnt that amazing, it was electrifying. It was electrifying for a couple of reasons. One, the movie is fantastic. But two, it took us four years from the time i sold my house to get that movie made. And everybody in town passed on it. Everybody. And then we took it to sundance and that night after that amazing screening, everybody that passed wanted it. And it was really the time that cemented my understanding of how valuable trusting your gut is. Kim yeah. Stephanie that was electric, and we all did make money. Keri thats great producing right there. Stephanie we all did make money in the end. Kim fantastic. Stephanie and um, yeah, so, so thats what ive been doing really for the last 20 years, just, just riding the wave. And i tell people it doesnt matter how successful you are, im telling you this now, its a hustle, its a hustle, and you have to be in that spirit of. Keri but you have to have a belief. Stephanie you have to believe. Thats why i dont do anything unless im so passionate about it that i will wake up in the middle of the night, write something down every day, wake up like, what can i do to push this forward . Ki lets talk about some of the obstacles. I mean, what in your experience, keri, are some of the obstacles women encounter in the industry . Keri yes, its, it, i dont think, i think it sort of depends on the seat the women are occupying. So if youre talking about um, women directors, uh, the, the obstacles, its interesting because some of the obstacles are not particular to this industry. Its, its, its this perception that leadership and the qualities that make a great director, which are decisionmaking and leadership and, you know, a lot of it is very gendered. Its often talked about in terms of war, they, theyre the general thats pushing the troops. These are extremely gendered terms. And they, they, they tend to um, reinforce the idea that leadership look, looks a certain way. And so whether thats around race or whether thats around gender, i think these things are very intersectional, um, women directors, i think, often have a difficult time um, assuming that mantle of leadership, being handed that mantle of leadership, for that reason. So thats one thing i think thats hard. I also think and this is a um, a particularly um, applicable fact across a lot of different categories of work, but um, there is a perception and has been a perception that stories out women or by and about women are somehow less universal and less worthy of spending money on because theyre going to be less commercial than stories by and about other people. Stephanie even though 51 of the population. Keri absolutely, and, and so a story about two men is a universal story of friendship. A story about two women is a niche story. And, and, and thats led to the problem of um financing, getting access to money, being able to build careers, because it isnt perceived that certain stories that that are by and about women are as valued. Stephanie and then, and then add to that stories about ack women. Keri well, yeah as i said, its very intersectional, definitely. Stephanie yes, yes. Keri people who make the Financial Decisions are still a very Homogenous Group of people who look at the business side, there are exceptions, but they look at the business side as what are we going to make back . What are the International Sales going to be . What is, what is the Box Office Going to be . And they set their budgets around that. So the money follows stories that look like what succeeded before. So if things are coming from a different perspective. Stephanie theres, theres no comps. Keri theres no comp, theres no. Stephanie they cant look it up and say this did that. Keri so, so on a, we used to call it the fiscal cliff, women cod get lowbudget movies made, people of color could get lowbudget movies made. But as the budgets got higher and more financial eyes were on what that marketability was, suddenly those creators fell out of the mix and it ended up being a more homogenous set of people. Stephanie what would you add to that, stephanie . Stephanie so, i mean, ive been in this business, what, 35 years at least, um, theres, theyre big stories to tell, theyre really big stories to tell. Now, i will say that in television, it feels like there are more opportunities for women to tell our story. Keri its a much more even playing field. Stephanie egalitarian field, it really is. Keri and when you. Stephanie why do you think that is, because, because. Keri well, yeah, i mean, why do you think that is . Stephanie well, i would guess that um, part of it is when somethings on television or streamed, it already has an international audience, right . But the thing about the streamers who are, you know, really impinging on that theatrical is that i made a movie with Alfre Woodard on netflix called juanita, my moms Favorite Movie ive ever made, um, and she was a huge hit in brazil. Like, she has a, she cant go to places in brazil without being mobbed because of that movie, because you could just turn it on and get that. Keri thats a great, thats a great point of view. Stephanie isnt that interesting . Keri yeah, for sure, i think thats the, thats the bright side of it. I think the idea that a global conversation is happening and, and, and proves some of those old biefs um, wrong i think is, is great. Um, i also think theres another factor, which is in the last, in this decade where the streamers have, have, have come into the business, theres been more Television Made than ever before in history, like in these 10 years, more than all the years before. So theres actually just jobs, its a, its a place of abundance. Stephanie yes. They need bodies, they needed bodies. Keri and i think a mind set and, and this isnt to say there wasnt also goodwill around, you know, what stories to be told are opportunities like the one stephanie described, but i think a mind set of abundance immediately provides more opportunity for people um, than, than one of constriction. And, and unfortunately, what were seeing in the film side of the business. Stephanie is scarcity. Keri is scarcity, because the studios that used to make 20 to 25 movies a year are now making, on average, eight to nine movies a year. So youre seeing, now the streamers are making films, and, you know, theres other places, but i think, i think that means everyone is a bigger bet. Everyone is more expensive. Everyone is a franchise now. Theres still, theres still been progress. I want to, i want to also say, even in the last few years, it was 4 of film directors were women and i think a less than 1 of women of color in the top 100 films for years and years and years in 2017, 2016 17, which coincided with the movements, the social movements around the world that also came to hollywood and include the organization that that were part of, reframe, these, these movements led to an opening of things. And we actually saw 150 growth in women directing those Top Box Office movies and a small growth in women of color as well, um, not proportional, unfortunately, but still growth. So now the numbers in 2019, the numbers went from 4 to 12 . Since 2019, its flat lined. Theres been no progress for the last four years. Yeah, and so when you think about, when you think about constraint, fear, you know, the way the Global Market is. Stephanie scarcity, yeah. Keri i, i worry that there needs to be a, there needs to be a conversation about how do you, how do you take a time where, you know, maybe the Market Conditions are more challenging and not forget about all the commitments to equity and all the commitments to a wide array of stories that we all believe in. Stephanie which, which is why reframe is so valuable to our business. Keri the idea of reframe originally was, was researchbased, seeing the research in the cold light of day and really saying nobody can deny that this is an equity problem. Nobody can, nobody could say this is an accident. We really felt instinctively, just by presenting that research to a wide array of people in studio jobs who are producers, who are agents at senior levels, they would, they would be. Stephanie shocked. Keri shocked. Because i think most people dont consider themselves biased. And yet the cumulative effect of their decisions were, was bias. Um, and indeed, that proved to be true. You know, when we first started, the biggest obstacle to making change was a perception that there wasnt a problem. Kim ah, yes. Stephanie america is a patriarchal, racist society. I mean, it is thats, thats the world that we live in. And just to y it out loud, oh, my god, dont say it. But we have to say it because we have to know it. We have to look at it to make the change, you know, and, um, and even all of us not, not, not just the white folks, but all of us operate under these assumptions and biases. So really exploring that on a human level really, i think, changed the way that people, that people think. Keri i agree. Stephanie and out of that came the toolkit. Keri yeah, and so the culture change toolkit is something we built for them to have to have actual tangible tools. Stephanie like. Keri to be able to make change along the way. Stephanie when you submit a script, take the name off, just read the script for the script. Dont read bettys script or jons script. Just read the script and see what you think. And what we discovered was, well, scripts written by women, especially like action or perceived, you know, um. Keri genre. Stephanie genre things were all of a sudden rising up because there wasnt this preconception that if a woman wrote it, it wasnt as good as a man. Keri but it was also about involving, involving the audience, so we created something called the reframe stamp that allo films that are um, genderbalanced in the way theyre made and in whats on the screen and this doesnt have to necessarily even be a woman director, it could be a woman in other roles, um, and, and we started awarding those stamps and, and, and really shining a light on things that were made that way. And then it sort of became, oh, i want the stamp and audiences are looking for the stamp. Stephanie and when we started, no one wanted the stamp, we were like trudging into the studio head saying, weve got this stamp and theyre like, we want no part of it. Were not going to be labeled. And now theres like, can i get the stamp . Look. And to get the stamp, you have to. Keri hire fairly, yeah. Stephanie you have to hire fairly. And, you know, so its exciting that, you know, there are ways to move the needle. Kim keri, what is lost when women are left out of the decisionmaking process . Keri hmm, i think, um, i think if decisionmaking, its a hard question because theres a lot of ways to approach that. I think, i think when any decisionmaking process doesnt get made by um, a group of people, that reflects the full world we live in, um, there will be unconscious bias. There will be um, a, a, a voice missing to be able to say, im interested in that. I care about that. Did you think about this . And i think i would say the same if there were no men in the decisionmaking process, this isnt about an instead, its about, its about an expansion. And its about having, having rooms of decisionmakers that reflect the world. And i think whats lost without that is um, the ability to expand the palette. Stephanie yeah. Kim stephanie, what would you add to that . Stephanie obviously, i totally agree. Keri thank you. Stephanie yeah, its um, you, when you think about a movie like everything, everywhere, all at once, which was made by two men. Keri yeah, yeah. Stephanie but with Michelle Yeoh and all these other, steph, all these other amazing. Keri jamie lee curtis. Stephanie jamie lee curtis. Yes, i mean, its really femalebased. The movie, you know. Keri yeah, i mean the daughter, yeah, yeah, the whole, yeah. Stephanie its so good. And, um, when just the world would be a sadder place, you know, we bring the, the, the collective um, inclusion of all these different voices is a celebration. You know, its a celebration of humanity. And thats sometimes whats missing when you dont have that full spectrum. Keri and i also think from the perspective of the audience, um, you know, weve seen so many examples of if you see it, you believe you can, you can be it. Stephanie absolutely. Keri and i think that that feeling of, of obviously equity is important across all industries. But i think when youre talking about culture and youre talking about storytelling and what stories we value and what, what reflects us, um, young people either see themselves or they dont. Stephanie yes. Keri and i think for, you know, were talking about what we each might have thought were possible for jobs or possible for ourselves. I think its such an important part of this industry. Its one of the reasons i love it. Stephanie hollywood, the industry is one of the least, least um, open, inclusive businesses like oil is more inclusive in terms of ceos and people of color than hollywood. Kim really . Stephanie and were setting the agenda. Were creating the content that goes all over the world. So if you think about that, the power that we have to tell stories, to include people, its kind of unfathomable. You wouldnt think, its so liberal in hollywood and this and that, but thats not the way it is. So um, theres still lots of work to do. Keri but i will say theres been some improvement. Stephanie oh, look, if youve been in the game as long as we have. Keri yeah. Stephanie some young kids dont know. Weve come a long way, baby. Keri and, and, and television and streaming is, is a really good example, i think. Stephanie i think so, too. I think so, too. Kim so stephanie, in 2015, the Oscarssowhite Campaign highlighted the lack of diversity in hollywood, and you produced one of the most diverse awards ceremony in 2020. Stephanie thank you. Kim yes, thats a completely different muscle youre using there, i mean. Stephanie yes. Kim how was that . Stephanie oh, it was the most fun of my career. Kim was it . Stephanie i loved it. Kim not stressful . Keri it had to be terrifying. Stephanie it was the combination of live theater and what we do. But there were no, no take twos, nothing like that. Theres one rehearsal. Theres one rehearsal for that whole show. Kim one rehearsal . Stephanie one rehearsal. It was really important to us that it be diverse and inclusive. Um, there was a lot of pushback, ill be honest, like, you know, even for someone as amazing as Janelle Monae who opened the show, it was a struggle. It was a struggle to make that happen, you know what i mean . Um, and but, but we persevered and im super proud of the show. It was, it took me three weeks to come down. Talk about, like the, the, the adrenaline. Keri i bet it did. Stephanie it, it did. I was just operating at. Keri i remember seeing you after you did, yeah, you were, you guys did a great job. Stephanie was i little, i was a little. Keri you were, you were. Stephanie i was, i was buzzing. Keri riding high, yeah. Stephanie yeah, yeah, it was great, it was fun. Kim understandably. Now theres an ongoing debate about having genderneutral awards at the oscars. Where do you stand on this, keri . Keri hmm. Stephanie yeah, where do you stand . Keri you know, i was just thinking about this because somebody and i dont, i dont have the answer because i think um, i would say on balance, im for it. I, i actually think acting shouldnt be awarded in a gendered way. The thing that i worry about is fewer. So if you have only one acting category, then it would be five, not ten or however, uh, so i think. Stephanie eight men, two women. Keri and then i think then you could end up replicating some of the um, issues weve seen in the directors category. Stephanie thats a really good point. Keri where weve just, we talked about that earlier, but so um i like in a way, i like that theres a, a space to be sure that women and womenidentifying artists. Stephanie thats really smart. Keri will be honored, but i, i wish there didnt need to be. So thats kind of where i stand right now. Stephanie im with her. I think thats really smart. Kim one final question, is there a story, a narrative that hasnt been done yet, which youd like to see on the big screen in the future . Any dream projects essentially, stephanie . Stephanie i have my dream project. Its not on the big screen. It is on hbo. Keri okay. Stephanie and it is sula, Toni Morrisons amazing novel. Keri oh, how great. Stephanie and we are you know, its, its going to be a limited series. We already have four of the eight scripts. Theyre beyond amazing. And i, i just its, its, its one of these projects that, you know, i read that book in college, its like, its, its black women being whatever we want to be. And thats whats so great about it. And its going to frighten the hell out of people because its wild. Kim looking forward to it. Stephanie so thats, that, yes, thatll be my next thing. Keri i dont, i dont have, i dont have a project like that in my head right now that im ready, that i, that i feel like, and i think, uh, um, yeah, i dont, i dont have a single project thats the one ive been waiting to see or waiting to make, um, but i think ill know it when i see it and im certainly out there looking. Kim keri and stephanie, thank you both very much. Keri thank you. Stephanie ts been fun. music plays through credits . Narrator funding for this presentation of this program is provided by. Narrator Financial Services firm, Raymond James. Man bdo. Accountants and advisors. Narrator funding was also provided by, the freeman foundation. And by judy and Peter Blum Kovler foundation; pursuing solutions for americas neglected needs. Announcer usa today calls it, arguably the best bargain in streaming. Thats because the free pbs app lets you watch the best of pbs anytime, anywhere. Simply download the pbs app on your mobile or streaming device. Wow, you get to watch all your favorite stuff. Its to die for. Now you wont miss a thing. This is the way. The xfinity 10g network. Made for streaming. Geoff good evening. Im geoff bennett. Amna nawaz is away. On the newshour tonight, hundreds are arrested as more propalestinian protests spread across college campuses. A key witness takes the stand in Donald Trumps hush money trial
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