They just think the governments ask is too broad. Both parties have until 3 00 p. M. Today, right now, to agree on a date this week to show up in d. C. For a hearing on the order and while jack smith gave tomorrow, thursday, and friday, Donald Trumps team is asking for another extension. This time in the next week. The judge has said she wanted the matter settled before this weekend. So how does she respond on the day . How does she respond to the arguments as well . Both for and against the order . And what does she do if donald trump refuses to comply with her order . Her ultimate order. Jail time is normally an option for contempt of court. Could that really be on the table . If not, what else could be done to keep an antagonistic defendant in line . We have news on the grand jury that Indicted Trump next week. Theyve met again today. What does Bernie Carrick have to do with it . He just met with the Special Counsels team. What was he asked . Joining me now is nbc news justice and intelligence correspondent, ken dilanian and in new hampshire, where donald trump is campaigning, nbc news correspondent, vaughn hillyard. Lets start with ken and this back and forth between Donald Trumps team and the Special Counsels team. This judge already denied an extension for donald trump this week. Is she likely to say okay to a hearing next week . Shes in a difficult spot because this is how delays are made. Defense counsel has other cases. In this case, they have another case in florida involving the same defendant with scheduling conflicts. The Special Counsels position is hey, this is our only case. Well be there whenever you want us there. Judges have to some extent respect the schedules of Defense Counsel and in this case, the trump folks are just pushing and pushing and pushing for the delays. She has shown a desire in moving this along but it was interesting she decided to have this hearing in the first place because in last nights filing, the Special Counsel urged her to just grant their order. They said look, theres nothing really to argue about here. The law is on our side. You can do this without oral arguments but she decided not to do that so now were in for what looks like another delay. The Special Counsel say he cant be trusted, he could use this information to intimidate. His team came back with their response yesterday. Can you tell me what they were arguing and why it wasnt against a protective order entirely. They cant be against a protective order. Its a standard thing in every criminal case because the governments going to give them very Sensitive Information in discovery. Whether its seizing peoples phones or interviewing confidential witnesses, but what trumps team is saying is that some of that stuff should be fair game for them to talk about and disclose in the media. The Special Counsel is saying absolutely not. Thats not what its for. They said even the full ginsburg round robin that john lauro did over the weekend on the sunday shows, even that was pushing the bounds of the d. C. Local rule that says that lawyers from either side really arent supposed to talk about the evidence in a case thats pending because it could taint the jury pool. And what Special Counsel is saying what trump wants to do is try this case in the media and they fear he wants to use this evidence to do that and they want that to be not aloud. Whatever happens with this protective order, the next fight along these lines is going to be how much longer will a judge tolerate trump attacking prosecutors, the judge herself, witnesses. Willynilly on social media. Were going to ask Chuck Rosenberg about the contingencies in a moment. Ken, i want to ask you about what else is happening in d. C. Today. The grand jury that handed donald trump the indictment last week met again today. What could they be talking about now . Its anybodys guess. Theyre still investigating this Election Suppression issue and potential Obstruction Of Justice and other things. And theyre allowed to do that. As long as they are in pursuit of another case. They cant keep investigating the case thats been indicted. So what that tells you is that there are still people liable to be criminally charged in these related matters. Thats really interesting. All right, vaughn, so donald trump is on the trail talking about trying his case in the court of Public Opinion. Has he been talking about it . Saying anything to voters . Yeah, just in about the last five minutes as ken was speaking there, he was, made a direct mention alluding to what could very well come over the next ten days. We are looking at a window by next weeks end which the District Attorney has laid out that she would announce charges either against donald trump or a litany of his allies. From the stage here in new jersey, he just said if im indicted for a fourth time, this election is over. The election being over though, its that he has won the election. As you said, the court of Public Opinion is the one area that donald trump has. Its going to be up to his Legal Counsel and each of these cases to go and represent him before a jury that will determine whether he is guilty or not. But here in the stanl, he is making the case to that in his words, this is turning into a third world country. Theres a family on the other side of the family that is operating with the intent to undermine Donald Trumps political influence. And that is the case that we should expect him to continue to make around this country and frankly, the department of justice, theyre not in the business of going and making their case out in the media. Donald trump has long taken his case to the press and the people. This is the first time where its actually been of criminal proceedings and for donald trump, the place where he feels like he has control is on stages like this across america. There have been other first world countries that have been criminally investigating leaders or potential leaders as theyve been campaigning. Lets talk about benjamin netanyahu. Its happened in italy. All over the world. France as well. Thank you very much. Joining me now is former u. S. Attorney and senior fbi official, msnbc contributor, Chuck Rosenberg. The smartest guy i know. Thanks for being here. Lets talk about the delays. Should we expect every time the judge asks Donald Trumps team to respond to something or show up for something that theyre going to ask for a delay . Is that going to be part of the strategy . Seems like its part of the strategy, katy. Delay to the benefit of defendants normally and politically, it also emerges to mr. Trumps benefit. If he can get this trial or trials moved until after the election and certainly if he can regain the presidency as a way to help him significantly. So yes, i think we could expect to see lots of things that are normally not disputed, disputed in these cases. On the issue of a protective order, Donald Trumps team is saying the tweet used on friday, if you go after me, im coming after you, was in regards to something else. It wasnt about these cases. It was about a special Interest Group going after him. Theyre arguing that a Special Counsel cant even use something not even about this case to try and argue that hes going to do something he shouldnt be doing with this material. That frankly they should be allowed to make their case in the court of Public Opinion. How do you expect a d. C. Judge is going to take that argument . This is hard because what mr. Trump posted was just vague enough to give him that argument. When we spoke to juries as federal prosecutors, we always told them at the end of the day, use your common sense. What does your common sense tell you . Because you, the jury, have to decide this case. We cant decide it for you. What does your common sense tell you about what he was doing and who it was aimed at . Of course it was aimed at the prosecutors. That said, this is tricky territory for a judge because every time he does Something Like this and there will be more, she has to try and crawl inside his mind, an uncomfortable place to be and try to figure out an appropriate response. Theres really not playbook for this. Its a tough one. It is. And donald trump is not something that has shown in the past that hes willing to abide by the normal process. So even if she does issue a protective order and maybe that doesnt mean that hes going to abide by it. If he steps out of line, how likely is it that the judge is going to punish him for that and what are really, what are her options with somebody like donald trump who has the microphone he has and is currently running for president with millions of people who believe that the criminal Justice System is stacked against him . Right. So she does have options if he fails to abide her orders. Whether its a protective order or some other order. She has options. So does the government by the way. Let me take the governments options. If mr. Trump is harassing or threatening witnesses, thats a separate federal crime. You saw that the government didnt hesitate to supersede its indictment in the Southern District of florida and add an obstruction charge. That could happen here, too. What are the judges options . Well, there is, there are two types of contempt, civil contempt, criminal contempt. Civil contempt is designed to force someone to comply with an order. It might be a fine that doubles every day until you come into compliance. Criminal contempt would permit someone to be put in prison after theyre convicted of course for flouting a court order. So there are options. But again, this is hard because this man is running for president as a candidate. He has the right to speak including to his supporters. And to his detractors. And a judge has to try and define which things cross the line and which do not. Regards to the grand jury meeting in d. C. Right now, the Special Grand Jury that we know is related to jack smith. As ken laid out, they cant be investigating something theyve already indicted but could they be potentially adding more charges . Could there be a Superseding Indictment for donald trump or are you looking at all of those unnamed coconspirators listed in the indictment of donald trump last week . So ken not surprisingly got the law right. If youre a Special Counsel and you charge me with committing crime a, you can keep your grand jury up and running and continue to investigate me for crimes b, c, d, e, and f. Youre not permitted to continue to investigate me for the crime you charged me. Crime a. So if that grand jury is up and running, its because they have an a active investigation. Does that mean conclusively that anyone else would be charged . No. Does it mean they can bring additional charges including against those who have been listed an unindicted coconspirators. Yes. The grand jurys not running an investigation for fun, because theyre bored. Theyre doing it because they believe there are other federal crimes that have been committed and now they have to make a determination about whether or not to charge someone with that. Just because i have you and i wasnt here last week and we have more information about the strategy from trumps team, what is your best guest on when this potentially goes to trial . Well, so im biased because i come out of the Eastern District of virginia which was known as the Rocket Docket where cases move dispatch. We are 14, 15 months from the november election. Can a trial be held before then in that time span . Absolutely. Will it . Harder question. You have other matters already set for trial. As ken mentioned, you have the same Defense Counsel in these cases. They cant be in two places at once and we see now that the strategy of the trump team seems to be delayed. Not a shocking strategy. So can it happen . Yes. It can, katy. I believe it can in the Eastern District of virginia, i believe it would, but this judge has to set her own timetable and she has to keep the parties sort of in line and on schedule. Thats not an easy thing to do. And also be fair to them given the time constraints that are out there. Chuck, thank you. Always good to have you. My pleasure. Coming up next, changing the rules. What Ohio Republicans are trying to do to the states constitution ahead of a big abortion vote. Plus, another one. What more than 11,000 Los Angeles City workers are demanding as they walk off the job today. And what nationally backed conservative groups are doing in Southern California to prevent lgbtq topics from being taught in public schools. We are back in 60 seconds. C sch. We are back in 60 seconds. Businesses need 5g solutions today. 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Ohio republicans are looking to change the states institution ahead of a big vote on abortion and special election held today, voters are being asked to change the threshold for amendments. Right now, it is a simple majority voters. Issue one as the measure is called is asking ohioans to raise that threshold to 60 . Why that number and why now . Joining me now from columbus, ohio is ali vitali. So, why that number . And why now . Reporter its a great question. I think the timing is the thing thats the most important in the conversations ive been having with people on both sides of issue one. It seems to be a clear and direct reminder that there is going to be come november an attempt to enshrine Abortion Protections into the ohio constitution. Now republicans are coming back around after having gotten rid of august special elections, putting this one on the ballot to try and raise the threshold of what it takes to raise the question. Those who say this is the right move, say its an attempt to keep outside money outside of ohio politics, advocates of abortion and other freedoms say this is an attempt to roll back what voters votes count as in the middle of the game. Whats so important is the way republicans are sort of saying the quiet part out loud including the Secretary Of State saying this is in his words, quote, 100 about abortion and keeping people from being able to enshrine those protections come november. Thats going to potentially create some backlash and even republicans that i talked to on the ground are bracing for that, including this one Republican Legislature from here in ohio. Watch. Whats the lesson for your party if come tuesday night or wednesday morning the Ballot Initiative fails . Maybe we should spend more time thinking through things before taking this step. Maybe less red meat from the base . More thoughtfulness . There is a way to provide the red meat and do things in a thoughtful way. Im afraid this was rushed a little bit. Because we had to make a certain deadline to be able to get it done. And i think it could have been gone a little more debate. Im not sure if i would have voted to put it on the ballot if it wasnt in that rushed format. If it wasnt a special election. If it didnt seem pretty hypocritical based on what we had done a few months ago by eliminating august special elections. So youre hearing even from republicans there, calling this a move thats hypocritical. Saying that its rushed and i have to tell you, i havent heard from many republicans here who are optimistic that this is going to work. You have to look at the Turnout Numbers alone. This is getting much more attention than other special elections have gotten in recent years here in ohio. Nearly 700,000 people had voted as of yesterdays count. Thats through vote by mail and early voting measures. Thats a sizable difference from what we saw in last years primary elections. It shows theres an energy here on the ground. Well see in the results what that yields. Well see what it does to Sherrod Browns chances for reelection next fall. Ali, thank you very much. Coming up, from traffic cop to sanitation workers, what forced thousands of l. A. City workers to go on strike today . What is being denied los angeles residents because of it . First up though, breaking news. Police issue Arrest Warrants for men in this massive montgomery, Alabama River front brawl. Well tell you who they want in the jailhouse and what happens next. Ho they want in the jailhouse and what happens next my dad was a hard worker. He used to do side job