Transcripts For MSNBCW The 20240704 : vimarsana.com

Behavior and the stakes. It was a bracing message. He will be treated like any other defendant. Trump did not attend the hearing in washington today, and thats fine. You can have these kind of hearings among lawyers. His defense team entered this morning. We saw that, tracked that. Hearing about what, in other cases, might be a more routine matter. What are the rules of evidence before you go to trial . How can it be discussed . So this is basically the framework, ground rules, you may have heard the reference to a protective order. Now judge chutkan rejected Donald Trumps request to speak in broader general terms about some of that evidence. Hell be restricted from publicly discussing the sensitive materials. The ruling came out late today. The judge says if Defendant Trump receives sensitive materials has part of this case, meaning stuff he might not otherwise get but for being a criminal defendant, his lawyers may not allow Defendant Trump to write down any personally identifying information. Now that may sound like relatively bland or standard protocol, but what it means and what it also refers to is how donald trump has basically been accused of credibly abusing information in the past. Jack smiths other case is about him stealing classified materials to use it in whatever way he wanted. Theres a tape of him using it to try to settle political scores or discredit people. So this is trying to prevent donald trump from doing anything like that, including up to any new crime like witness tampering. Sensitive is the key word, because it wont apply to every piece of evidence. In this mornings hearing, the judge also issued tough warnings for a defendant who, of course, has tried to lash out or intip deviate people inside the the justice system. Now, i want to show you a piece of this. You may wonder what youre looking at here. I wanted to bring it up on the screen before i got to this. Youre looking at the circus or carnivals, and sometimes words dont paint the picture of pictures with a thousand words. I wanted to show you this carnival and this carnivallike atmosphere to share with you part of what the judge says will not be allowed. So thats a carnival. Thats something we all know. The judge went out of her way today, in this first clash hearing between jack smiths team and trumps lawyers, to say she simply will not tolerate any kind of carnival atmosphere. The more a party makes inflammatory statements about this case which could taint the jury pool, the greater the urgency will be to proceed to trial quickly. I want to make one more point about this. I want to be as precise and fair as possible. The judge is saying that in general. So as a general matter, was that shade against any which side . I think the judge would say or a reasonable view of the transcript would be, in general, she said no carnival atmosphere. Then we add context. Jack smith and his team have not done anything to foment a carnival atmosphere. As we were discussing last night, he barely speaks. Hes spoken in public for 4 1 2 minutes total in two brief appearances in his entire tenure. It is quite clearly the inference that the judge was speaking to the other side. No ones allowed to make a carnival atmosphere, including the doj. But shes clearly directing that at Defendant Trump and the people around him who have made a carnivallike atmosphere, who have selectively quoted and taken things theyve received like Target Letters and tried to turn that into fundraising and merch and attacks on Law Enforcement, attacks on d. A. Bragg, who was, along with the president , named in a threat this week that was dealt with. This is a carnival, and beyond. And this is the context for that today. The judge also said Defendant Trumps argument that the restrictions on what he would say would harm his campaign arent really going to get a lot of look from her. This is a criminal trial. I cannot and i will not factor into my decisions the effect its going to have on a Political Campaign for either side. Meaning, again, jack smith reports into the Garland Justice Department which reports into the biden administration. This case has independence, but the judge is saying as fairly as possible, im not worried about either of your campaigns. She also went out of her way to say when it comes to the idea that theres a selective prosecution, that somehow trump has been targeted not for what he did but for who he is, which if you can show evidence of that, that would be wrong. Well, donald trump coming up short. The judge, who again is the Nonpartisan Party here, im not just quoting jack submit. Heres what the judge said. I havent seen any evidence this is politically motivated. Thats a setback for any incourt Selection Process claim. Thats what weve talked about, the difference between when you say out here, and this team have any right to make any claim they want. They have the Freedom Of Speech to say, its not that we got in trouble for what we did, it is that donald trump is being unfairly attacked, witch hunt, they have the Freedom Of Speech to say that. What the judge is saying in court is, so far, that is a worthless, baseless, zerotype legal claim. Which means it wont help them avoid trial, it wont be the kind of thing theyll likely be able to present to the jury, unless they find evidence of it. The judge rejecting the Defense Claim that the Free Speech Rights are being challenged in court. He has all the free speech to talk out of court. The idea that free speech is a license to a coup or a conspiracy, thats never been true. Its not legally true. Weve heard versions of that from trumps lawyers on air. What the position of the prosecutor is nonsensitive, ordinary evidence should not be disclosed to the press. Thats shocking. Not only do they want to violate President Trumps First Amendment rights, they want to violate freedom of the press. Now, lets show you the quote. Mr. Trump, like every american, has a First Amendment right to free speech, but that right is not absolute. In a criminal case such as this one, the defendants free speech is subject to the rules, adding that crump is a criminal defendant, hes going to have restrictions like every other defendant. The judge saying today, the defense is supposed to happen in this courtroom, not on the internet. To the extent your client wants to make statements on the internet, they always have to yield to witness security, witness safety. I see the possibility of a lot of problems here. Whats really interesting is, there is a public clash any time you get the Legal Process involved. You could have the police stop someone outside a restaurant. If theres photos of it or discussion of it, people might think that person did something wrong and they didnt. Donald trump legally is presumed innocent, and he can certainly go out in public and talk about that. The is being quite strict with Defendant Trump and his team. While those concerns might be generally real, and theyre afforded a certain set of Free Speech Rights in america, thats not a license to say anything any time, which is to say in trial, its not a defense of fears, its that youre allowed to talk. In pretrial, meaning in the rampup to this trial, its not something that means trump can violate protective order rules or evidence rules or take Sensitive Information he only got because jack smiths Team Provided it for trial prep like grand jury interviews that are secret to go blabbing about it in public, he doesnt have that right as a defendant. He doesnt. As for the realworld concern these things should be handled in court and not in public, there is a strange overlap. Jack smith, back to when he talked a little bit in the earlier days of his career, has shared the idea, the framework that youve got to be careful with this stuff because you dont want to be unfair. He talked about, thats why it is generally better within trials to let the evidence do the talking and not have a society that preconvicts people based on hype. Here is a younger jack smith. We dont want to live in a society where someone is convicted based on whats in the newspapers. We dont want to live in a society of a form of mob rule where we just get a few allegations without any process and convict somebody. I think thats the role of the prosecutor is to take allegations like that when theyre public and investigate and see if the facts actually back up whats there. Is the allegation and the source of it credible . Is there exculpatory information on the other side . Is there corroborating information that makes it Even Stronger . Information. Evidence. Facts. And discipline and restraint when it comes to the public side of all that. Its actually kind of what you want out of a model prosecutor. It why is, although ive explained before that this is an area of nuance, the doj doesnt have one rule about what you can say people in Law Enforcement can give longer remarks, they can give interviews but youll notice that some of these really respected, by the Book Prosecutors the mueller types, the smith types, they err on the side of caution. Which is actually fair to the defendant. The judge ended this hearing saying today, i will take whatever measures are necessary to safeguard the integrity of these proceedings. That is also a warning if Defendant Trump goes so far to tempt being held in contempt of court. Now, thats a lot. We just digested. I have thoughts and questions. Former federal prosecutor and u. S. Attorney joyce vance. I want to request about what we learned today. Stay with me. One aleve works all day so i can keep working my magic. Just one aleve. 12 hours of uninterrupted pain relief. Aleve. Who do you take it for . With the freestyle libre 2 system, know your Glucose Level and where its headed. No fingersticks needed. Manage your diabetes with more confidence. Freestyle libre 2. Try it for free at freestylelibre. Us back with former prosecutor joyce vance. What were your Key Takeaways from this first matchup, this first Pretrial Hearing between jack smiths team, trumps team, and this judge . I think something we can take comfort in during todays proceeding was the fair way the judge handled herself. She is, after all, a former defense lawyer. She represents now neither party, and her job is to get things right. And she seemed intent on doing that. She was very critical of prosecutors earlier in the hearing asking why they wanted to enter this broad order. And she settled on the notion of including only Sensitive Information in the protective order. But that still is very broad. That will protect grand jury material, that will protect everything that has come over from the january 6th committee. Although she gave the parties the ability to negotiate that a little bit if they wanted to lighten it up. Ultimately, what this does is everything that a protective order is meant to do. It protects witnesses, and it protects the jury process. And she has made it clear that she will react swiftly if trump crosses the line. Yeah, and i appreciate you mentioning the government position. Again, people can think of this, if you want to be really simplistic, like being at the car dealership. You kind of know some of the prices arent the final price. You go back and forth. And so the justice department, well within its rights and strategy, doesnt necessarily start where they think theyre going to end. They definitely took we talked about this a larger swing on the evidence, basically like, well, maybe you cant talk about anything. Lets loop it all in. The trump lawyers, who have a hard case and a hard client, i think everybody understands why, they did Say Something legally reasonable, which is, surely we cant let the opponent in their case jack smith decide what sensitive is and be so overly broad that it restricts that which otherwise doesnt have legal protection. So explain. You alluded to it a little more of where the judge, who is supposed to be more the arbiter here, where the judge came down on that distinction. Right, so she does a good job of narrowing things a little bit. She does tell them in the courtroom, you all are free to go back and alter this. You can, by agreement, change the scope of whats covered. Very importantly here, tapes are covered. Transcripts are covered. Materials that came from other federal agencies are covered. And there are a couple of risks here that shes trying to head off. And one of the big ones is this. Not all of the evidence that the government produces in discovery will be admissible at trial. Ari, as you know, there are some fairly stringent rules about what evidence the government gets to put in front of a jury. One of the risks here, if trump decides to seize on something in one of these transcripts, he could have, if she had not imposed this order, perhaps taken a single line in a recording and played it over and over. And if it was something that ultimately is not admissible in court, theres a real risk of jury taint. So what shes doing here is what every good trial judge does. Shes trying to make sure that No Matter What happens in her courtroom, it can be affirmed on appeal by the court of appeals. Understood. With the 30 seconds i have left, beyond just this evidence clash, did you see anything from the judge today that gave you insight to what shell be like overseeing the whole trial in the future . Fair but not unduly deferential. The legal system has shown a lot of deference to President Trump trump as a former president. The kid gloves look to be off, and now hes just like everyone else in this country. He is mr. Trump, not President Trump. There you have it. Some concise words of wisdom heading into the weekend. Joyce, always good to see you. Good to see you too, ari. Im about to show you something you need to see to believe. It relates to the kind of show were cooking up. Weve got a lot more on the news. By the end of the hour, something fun. Take a listen to then president obama breaking down his governing theme music. Allow me to close with a quick preview of the secret agenda you can expect in a second obama administration. In my first term i sang al vreens. In my second term, im going with young jeezy. President obama explaining you need that big jeezy energy. Well, the actual jeezy is on the beat by the end of the hour tonight. Coming up next, how donald trump played himself and brought on jack smiths indictment. Ds, i think i waited this long to get botox® cosmetic because i take like no time for myself. My kids are sports kids. Were always running from one activity to another. Im still tonya and i got botox® cosmetic. And this is like the first thing ive done for me in a really, really long time. My life is still crazy, its just as full as it was before. Just with less lines. Botox® cosmetic is fda approved to temporarily make frown lines, crows feet, and Forehead Lines look better. The effects of botox® cosmetic may spread hours to weeks after injection causing serious symptoms. Alert your doctor right away, as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems or Muscle Weakness may be a sign of a lifethreatening condition. Do not receive botox® cosmetic if you have a skin infection. Side effects may include allergic reactions, injection site pain, headache, eyebrow, eyelid drooping, and eyelid swelling. Tell your doctor about your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions, and medications including Botulinum Toxins as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. See for yourself at botoxcosmetic. Com. Sometimes, the lows of Bipolar Depression feel darkest before dawn. With caplyta, theres a chance to let in the lyte. Caplyta is proven to deliver significant relief across Bipolar Depression. Unlike some medicines that only treat bipolar i, caplyta treats both bipolar i and ii depression. And in clinical trials, Movement Disorders and weight gain were not common. Call your doctor about sudden mood changes, behaviors, or suicidal thoughts. Antidepressants may increase these risks in young adults. Elderly dementia patients have increased risk of death or stroke. Report fever, confusion, stiff or uncontrollable Muscle Movements which may be life threatening or permanent. These arent all the serious side effects. Caplyta can help you let in the lyte. Ask your doctor about caplyta. Find savings and support at caplyta. Com. Mr. Sennas into nature. Professor kots into science. But together, we work like our senokot laxatives. To relieve occasional constipation, senokots made from the senna plant. Refined by science to be reliable. Perfect match just like us hmph senokot. The citi custom cash℠ card automatically adjusts to earn you more cash back in your top eligible spend category. Hi. You dont have to keep tabs on rotating categories. This is the only rotating i care about. Or activate anything to earn. Your cash back automatically adjusts for you. Can i get a Cucumber Water . Earn 5 cash back that automatically adjusts to your top eligible spend category, up to 500 spent each Billing Cycle with the citi custom cash℠ card. I love it. [voice vibrating] when people come, they say theyve tried with lots of diets,m cash℠ nothings worked or theyve lost the same 10, 20, 50 pounds over and over again. They need a real solution. Ive always fought with 510 pounds all the time. Eating all these Donald Trumps<\/a> request to speak in broader general terms about some of that evidence. Hell be restricted from publicly discussing the sensitive materials. The ruling came out late today. The judge says if Defendant Trump<\/a> receives sensitive materials has part of this case, meaning stuff he might not otherwise get but for being a criminal defendant, his lawyers may not allow Defendant Trump<\/a> to write down any personally identifying information. Now that may sound like relatively bland or standard protocol, but what it means and what it also refers to is how donald trump has basically been accused of credibly abusing information in the past. Jack smiths other case is about him stealing classified materials to use it in whatever way he wanted. Theres a tape of him using it to try to settle political scores or discredit people. So this is trying to prevent donald trump from doing anything like that, including up to any new crime like witness tampering. Sensitive is the key word, because it wont apply to every piece of evidence. In this mornings hearing, the judge also issued tough warnings for a defendant who, of course, has tried to lash out or intip deviate people inside the the justice system. Now, i want to show you a piece of this. You may wonder what youre looking at here. I wanted to bring it up on the screen before i got to this. Youre looking at the circus or carnivals, and sometimes words dont paint the picture of pictures with a thousand words. I wanted to show you this carnival and this carnivallike atmosphere to share with you part of what the judge says will not be allowed. So thats a carnival. Thats something we all know. The judge went out of her way today, in this first clash hearing between jack smiths team and trumps lawyers, to say she simply will not tolerate any kind of carnival atmosphere. The more a party makes inflammatory statements about this case which could taint the jury pool, the greater the urgency will be to proceed to trial quickly. I want to make one more point about this. I want to be as precise and fair as possible. The judge is saying that in general. So as a general matter, was that shade against any which side . I think the judge would say or a reasonable view of the transcript would be, in general, she said no carnival atmosphere. Then we add context. Jack smith and his team have not done anything to foment a carnival atmosphere. As we were discussing last night, he barely speaks. Hes spoken in public for 4 1 2 minutes total in two brief appearances in his entire tenure. It is quite clearly the inference that the judge was speaking to the other side. No ones allowed to make a carnival atmosphere, including the doj. But shes clearly directing that at Defendant Trump<\/a> and the people around him who have made a carnivallike atmosphere, who have selectively quoted and taken things theyve received like Target Letters<\/a> and tried to turn that into fundraising and merch and attacks on Law Enforcement<\/a>, attacks on d. A. Bragg, who was, along with the president , named in a threat this week that was dealt with. This is a carnival, and beyond. And this is the context for that today. The judge also said Defendant Trump<\/a>s argument that the restrictions on what he would say would harm his campaign arent really going to get a lot of look from her. This is a criminal trial. I cannot and i will not factor into my decisions the effect its going to have on a Political Campaign<\/a> for either side. Meaning, again, jack smith reports into the Garland Justice Department<\/a> which reports into the biden administration. This case has independence, but the judge is saying as fairly as possible, im not worried about either of your campaigns. She also went out of her way to say when it comes to the idea that theres a selective prosecution, that somehow trump has been targeted not for what he did but for who he is, which if you can show evidence of that, that would be wrong. Well, donald trump coming up short. The judge, who again is the Nonpartisan Party<\/a> here, im not just quoting jack submit. Heres what the judge said. I havent seen any evidence this is politically motivated. Thats a setback for any incourt Selection Process<\/a> claim. Thats what weve talked about, the difference between when you say out here, and this team have any right to make any claim they want. They have the Freedom Of Speech<\/a> to say, its not that we got in trouble for what we did, it is that donald trump is being unfairly attacked, witch hunt, they have the Freedom Of Speech<\/a> to say that. What the judge is saying in court is, so far, that is a worthless, baseless, zerotype legal claim. Which means it wont help them avoid trial, it wont be the kind of thing theyll likely be able to present to the jury, unless they find evidence of it. The judge rejecting the Defense Claim<\/a> that the Free Speech Rights<\/a> are being challenged in court. He has all the free speech to talk out of court. The idea that free speech is a license to a coup or a conspiracy, thats never been true. Its not legally true. Weve heard versions of that from trumps lawyers on air. What the position of the prosecutor is nonsensitive, ordinary evidence should not be disclosed to the press. Thats shocking. Not only do they want to violate President Trump<\/a>s First Amendment<\/a> rights, they want to violate freedom of the press. Now, lets show you the quote. Mr. Trump, like every american, has a First Amendment<\/a> right to free speech, but that right is not absolute. In a criminal case such as this one, the defendants free speech is subject to the rules, adding that crump is a criminal defendant, hes going to have restrictions like every other defendant. The judge saying today, the defense is supposed to happen in this courtroom, not on the internet. To the extent your client wants to make statements on the internet, they always have to yield to witness security, witness safety. I see the possibility of a lot of problems here. Whats really interesting is, there is a public clash any time you get the Legal Process<\/a> involved. You could have the police stop someone outside a restaurant. If theres photos of it or discussion of it, people might think that person did something wrong and they didnt. Donald trump legally is presumed innocent, and he can certainly go out in public and talk about that. The is being quite strict with Defendant Trump<\/a> and his team. While those concerns might be generally real, and theyre afforded a certain set of Free Speech Rights<\/a> in america, thats not a license to say anything any time, which is to say in trial, its not a defense of fears, its that youre allowed to talk. In pretrial, meaning in the rampup to this trial, its not something that means trump can violate protective order rules or evidence rules or take Sensitive Information<\/a> he only got because jack smiths Team Provided<\/a> it for trial prep like grand jury interviews that are secret to go blabbing about it in public, he doesnt have that right as a defendant. He doesnt. As for the realworld concern these things should be handled in court and not in public, there is a strange overlap. Jack smith, back to when he talked a little bit in the earlier days of his career, has shared the idea, the framework that youve got to be careful with this stuff because you dont want to be unfair. He talked about, thats why it is generally better within trials to let the evidence do the talking and not have a society that preconvicts people based on hype. Here is a younger jack smith. We dont want to live in a society where someone is convicted based on whats in the newspapers. We dont want to live in a society of a form of mob rule where we just get a few allegations without any process and convict somebody. I think thats the role of the prosecutor is to take allegations like that when theyre public and investigate and see if the facts actually back up whats there. Is the allegation and the source of it credible . Is there exculpatory information on the other side . Is there corroborating information that makes it Even Stronger<\/a> . Information. Evidence. Facts. And discipline and restraint when it comes to the public side of all that. Its actually kind of what you want out of a model prosecutor. It why is, although ive explained before that this is an area of nuance, the doj doesnt have one rule about what you can say people in Law Enforcement<\/a> can give longer remarks, they can give interviews but youll notice that some of these really respected, by the Book Prosecutors<\/a> the mueller types, the smith types, they err on the side of caution. Which is actually fair to the defendant. The judge ended this hearing saying today, i will take whatever measures are necessary to safeguard the integrity of these proceedings. That is also a warning if Defendant Trump<\/a> goes so far to tempt being held in contempt of court. Now, thats a lot. We just digested. I have thoughts and questions. Former federal prosecutor and u. S. Attorney joyce vance. I want to request about what we learned today. Stay with me. One aleve works all day so i can keep working my magic. Just one aleve. 12 hours of uninterrupted pain relief. Aleve. Who do you take it for . With the freestyle libre 2 system, know your Glucose Level<\/a> and where its headed. No fingersticks needed. Manage your diabetes with more confidence. Freestyle libre 2. Try it for free at freestylelibre. Us back with former prosecutor joyce vance. What were your Key Takeaways<\/a> from this first matchup, this first Pretrial Hearing<\/a> between jack smiths team, trumps team, and this judge . I think something we can take comfort in during todays proceeding was the fair way the judge handled herself. She is, after all, a former defense lawyer. She represents now neither party, and her job is to get things right. And she seemed intent on doing that. She was very critical of prosecutors earlier in the hearing asking why they wanted to enter this broad order. And she settled on the notion of including only Sensitive Information<\/a> in the protective order. But that still is very broad. That will protect grand jury material, that will protect everything that has come over from the january 6th committee. Although she gave the parties the ability to negotiate that a little bit if they wanted to lighten it up. Ultimately, what this does is everything that a protective order is meant to do. It protects witnesses, and it protects the jury process. And she has made it clear that she will react swiftly if trump crosses the line. Yeah, and i appreciate you mentioning the government position. Again, people can think of this, if you want to be really simplistic, like being at the car dealership. You kind of know some of the prices arent the final price. You go back and forth. And so the justice department, well within its rights and strategy, doesnt necessarily start where they think theyre going to end. They definitely took we talked about this a larger swing on the evidence, basically like, well, maybe you cant talk about anything. Lets loop it all in. The trump lawyers, who have a hard case and a hard client, i think everybody understands why, they did Say Something<\/a> legally reasonable, which is, surely we cant let the opponent in their case jack smith decide what sensitive is and be so overly broad that it restricts that which otherwise doesnt have legal protection. So explain. You alluded to it a little more of where the judge, who is supposed to be more the arbiter here, where the judge came down on that distinction. Right, so she does a good job of narrowing things a little bit. She does tell them in the courtroom, you all are free to go back and alter this. You can, by agreement, change the scope of whats covered. Very importantly here, tapes are covered. Transcripts are covered. Materials that came from other federal agencies are covered. And there are a couple of risks here that shes trying to head off. And one of the big ones is this. Not all of the evidence that the government produces in discovery will be admissible at trial. Ari, as you know, there are some fairly stringent rules about what evidence the government gets to put in front of a jury. One of the risks here, if trump decides to seize on something in one of these transcripts, he could have, if she had not imposed this order, perhaps taken a single line in a recording and played it over and over. And if it was something that ultimately is not admissible in court, theres a real risk of jury taint. So what shes doing here is what every good trial judge does. Shes trying to make sure that No Matter What<\/a> happens in her courtroom, it can be affirmed on appeal by the court of appeals. Understood. With the 30 seconds i have left, beyond just this evidence clash, did you see anything from the judge today that gave you insight to what shell be like overseeing the whole trial in the future . Fair but not unduly deferential. The legal system has shown a lot of deference to President Trump<\/a> trump as a former president. The kid gloves look to be off, and now hes just like everyone else in this country. He is mr. Trump, not President Trump<\/a>. There you have it. Some concise words of wisdom heading into the weekend. Joyce, always good to see you. Good to see you too, ari. Im about to show you something you need to see to believe. It relates to the kind of show were cooking up. Weve got a lot more on the news. By the end of the hour, something fun. Take a listen to then president obama breaking down his governing theme music. Allow me to close with a quick preview of the secret agenda you can expect in a second obama administration. In my first term i sang al vreens. In my second term, im going with young jeezy. President obama explaining you need that big jeezy energy. Well, the actual jeezy is on the beat by the end of the hour tonight. Coming up next, how donald trump played himself and brought on jack smiths indictment. Ds, i think i waited this long to get botox\u00ae cosmetic because i take like no time for myself. My kids are sports kids. Were always running from one activity to another. Im still tonya and i got botox\u00ae cosmetic. And this is like the first thing ive done for me in a really, really long time. My life is still crazy, its just as full as it was before. Just with less lines. Botox\u00ae cosmetic is fda approved to temporarily make frown lines, crows feet, and Forehead Lines<\/a> look better. The effects of botox\u00ae cosmetic may spread hours to weeks after injection causing serious symptoms. Alert your doctor right away, as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems or Muscle Weakness<\/a> may be a sign of a lifethreatening condition. Do not receive botox\u00ae cosmetic if you have a skin infection. Side effects may include allergic reactions, injection site pain, headache, eyebrow, eyelid drooping, and eyelid swelling. Tell your doctor about your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions, and medications including Botulinum Toxins<\/a> as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. See for yourself at botoxcosmetic. Com. Sometimes, the lows of Bipolar Depression<\/a> feel darkest before dawn. With caplyta, theres a chance to let in the lyte. Caplyta is proven to deliver significant relief across Bipolar Depression<\/a>. Unlike some medicines that only treat bipolar i, caplyta treats both bipolar i and ii depression. And in clinical trials, Movement Disorders<\/a> and weight gain were not common. Call your doctor about sudden mood changes, behaviors, or suicidal thoughts. Antidepressants may increase these risks in young adults. Elderly dementia patients have increased risk of death or stroke. Report fever, confusion, stiff or uncontrollable Muscle Movements<\/a> which may be life threatening or permanent. These arent all the serious side effects. Caplyta can help you let in the lyte. Ask your doctor about caplyta. Find savings and support at caplyta. Com. Mr. Sennas into nature. Professor kots into science. But together, we work like our senokot laxatives. To relieve occasional constipation, senokots made from the senna plant. Refined by science to be reliable. Perfect match just like us hmph senokot. The citi custom cash\u2120 card automatically adjusts to earn you more cash back in your top eligible spend category. Hi. You dont have to keep tabs on rotating categories. This is the only rotating i care about. Or activate anything to earn. Your cash back automatically adjusts for you. Can i get a Cucumber Water<\/a> . Earn 5 cash back that automatically adjusts to your top eligible spend category, up to 500 spent each Billing Cycle<\/a> with the citi custom cash\u2120 card. I love it. [voice vibrating] when people come, they say theyve tried with lots of diets,m cash\u2120 nothings worked or theyve lost the same 10, 20, 50 pounds over and over again. They need a real solution. Ive always fought with 510 pounds all the time. Eating all these Different Things<\/a> and nothings ever working. Ive done the diets, all the diets. Before golo, i was barely eating but the weight wasnt going anywhere. The secret to losing weight and keeping it off is managing insulin and glucose. Golo takes a systematic approach to eating that focuses on optimizing insulin levels. We tackle the cause of weight gain, not just the symptom. When you have good metabolic health, weight loss is easy. I always thought it would be so difficult to lose weight, but with golo, it wasnt. The weight just fell off. I have people come up to me all the time and ask me, does it really work . And all i have to say is, here i am. It works. My advice for everyone is to go with golo. It will release your fat and it will release you. If donald trump didnt try to game the system dealing with the justice department, he probably never would have been indicted by jack smith. I can say that based on the legal reporting we have done, and its actually quite striking he brought that this on himself. I want to walk through this. Special guest Michael Hershorn<\/a> has looked at the headaches trump faces. Weve drawn on all kinds of different ways of understanding the world around us, sometimes history, sometimes culture, you can go all the to Ancient Greece<\/a> and the king who learns his future fate and tries to defy it. This is a story that resonated for many years, because it is about our human nature. Its spawned productions well into the modern age. Apollo said that i was doomed to marry my mother and to shed my fathers blood. And for that reason, i fled out of my house. And those misfortunes are always the worst as a man brings upon himself. I know what youre thinking. Youd like to see the full twohour version of that play. Well, youll have to go to youtube for that. I did want to show you that because it was through the and instead of accepting his fate, he tries to flee it and thus seals his fate. By running away from it, leaving town to get away from his family if you read the twhoel story, turns out he made the prophecy come true. You can think of trump as an oedipus figure, a man who certainly has a king complex, who tried to gain the system to outrun his fate, only to guarantee it. The background is candidates usually announce president ial runs about six months out. Thats what trump did in 2017. But donald trump became the earliest announced president ial candidate in american history, 2022, 15 months, historically early. At the time, people noticed this was his effort to game the system. He figured if he looked like a candidate, hed be less likely to be indicted by the doj. I am curious about this very early announcement. And im wondering if you think that maybe donald trump is trying to beat the a. G. Or any of the other legal officials the doj, you name them . Youre right in part. A big reason trump announced his run is he fears criminal prosecution. Hes a desperate man, a threatened and rabid animal. In private conversations, pretty blunt that they see it as, he has to win the election, and that is how he guarantees that he does not face jail time. Its Pretty Amazing<\/a> that when trump ran in 2016, his slogan was lock her up. In 2024 its going to be vote for me or im going to go to jail. This is so widely understood that you can hear all the references to it, right . When i say that trump brought the Special Appointment<\/a> on himself, i dont mean that as a kind of casual, general remark. I mean, weve done the reporting, and if you go look at the actual reason, because trump was a political figure, he was a former president. The trigger for naming the Special Counsel<\/a> as explained in the announcement and in writing by Attorney General<\/a> garland was that trump has formally declared his candidacy. That, again, was only done super early for these reasons. Because then, within three days, Merrick Garland<\/a> announced, because trump declared, in this case very early, there would now be Special Counsel<\/a> smith. I am tonight announcing my candidacy for president of the united states. Based on recent developments, including the former president s announcement that he is a candidate for president in the next election, i have concluded that it is in the Public Interest<\/a> to appoint a Special Counsel<\/a>. The announcement was the trigger that changed everything. And up until that point in november, Doj Under Garland<\/a> and the fbi had been resistant to even starting a probe into trump, let alone indicting him, as smith did. And you can then see how we went from that glacial pace to warp speed. Smith appointed november 2022. Seven months later, He Indicts Donald Trump<\/a> in the documents case. I think if we can pull it up, we have an image. Two months after that in the coup case. So all of this comes in the context of doj rules which prohibit prosecutors from bringing charges too close to an election. Here, as you see, trump candidacy, then you have, once thats declared, the dojs smith appointment. Then you get, as mentioned, those charges. Docs indictment, seven months, then coup. The policy says prosecutors cannot indict or make other actions close to elections. If trump had announced later, like typical candidates, this is the reporting i want to show you. If you just move the timing, if hes used the typical Announcement Window<\/a>, well, jack smith appointed, right . Theres the Announcement Window<\/a>. Say if it went seven months out of the normal time, it would have been at december, running into the primaries. Probably within the dojs 60day rule. And it would never happen. We have a special guest for all of this. Michael hirsch horn is here to discuss how donald trump played himself. Welcome back, michael. Always great to be here. And i dont want to be overly fulsome in my praise, but thats a great analysis. Thank you, michael. Lets put it back up on the screen. I mentioned this once this week, but theres been a lot going on. I wanted to bring you in. This is the first time were talking about it live on a friday night. When you look at the hypothetical, the second one we showed, ill put that back up and you can talk over it. Well go to the next one. Thats what happened, the hypothetical. The typical Announcement Window<\/a> is literally what trump did the time before. You save a lot of money and legal headaches if you announce later. Thats why candidates in both parties do it. Had he just done that, under doj rules, the Special Counsel<\/a> probably wouldnt even have been allowed to act within weeks of the primaries. What does it tell you about trump or human nature that, like these ancient tragic tales of thousands of years ago, how running your fate, trying to game things, sometimes brings it on yourself . Well, i think theres an extraordinary arrogant power and a sense that he can get away with anything. And i think historically, again throughout literature, that is what seals your fate. He gets to a certain point, and then the arrogance, he flies too close to the sun, and suddenly thats it for him. And his wings melt, and hes done. The limitation, i think, of that metaphor, oedipus rex, that happens in the context when he discovers he slept with his mother, he blinds himself, his mother kills herself. That would require a level of shame that i think youll never see from trump. Yeah, well, you clearly know again, i cant summarize every piece of the story in the time we have. But well keep pictures on screen. Those tears that are such a famous part of the end of the story, as you point out, are selfinflicted. That he we talk about justice as societys rules. Youre reminding people that in this play, in this parallel of human values, that he punishes himself, as you say, out of a sense of propriety or shame that you dont see in this particular defendant . Thats right. I think the proper metaphor, you know, after you guys were in touch, i looked at it. Ian escos rhinoceros from the 50s which dealt with the rise of fascism. It was about the triumph of brute force over reason and posttruth over truth. And i think trump lives in that world. And ultimately, what hes setting up, hes really gained in the ultimate bluff. Which is that his assault on truth, his assault on facts, his assault on law, is ultimately going to win. And for trump to succeed at this, he has to be allin. He cannot in any way show any doubt. He cannot concede anything. He must continue with the bluff, either until he wins and we live in a postlaw, posttruth america, or he loses, and he goes to jail. Yeah. First of all, i love you bringing enesco into it. Have you got any friend horse deadheads, michael . A couple. But i try to stay away from them. Ha. Im getting a deadhead vibe, where someones like, oh, yeah, it was like red rocks 84. Then, well, no, it was actually more like this European Tour<\/a> if you go back to paris 72. Then well, if you want paris 72, theres the haightashbury b sideshow that you dont even have the tapes for. Youre getting ian esco out of our sophocles, i appreciate that. Brash, blatant crimes out there coups are not allowed, telling you each Component Piece<\/a> was mundane or normal. We already talked about that, why is everyone so upset . We heard from John Eastmans<\/a> lawyer, and he does this mundane game. He looked at history, looked a the historical examples, presented the various options, recommended at the end what he thought was the best option consistent with his clients interest and the law which was thats not quite true. You brainstorm, you do research, you talk to other people. And eventually, perhaps your mind changes on question at the beginning you had a different opinion. This is utterly mundane for anybody engaged in the daytoday law that was some of the back and forth. It wasnt university utterly minute dawn. We also gave him time and we learn from guests, as you know. Im curious, not on the law, but why we come to you sometimes as a really insightful analyst of what some call the spectacle of politics. What do you see in what seems like a bad or weak argument . Coups are mundane, or the Component Parts<\/a> are mundane. What do you see them doing here as they head into an election . Trying to say, this was just one more normal thing . I think its part of a kind of standard posttruth toolkit, which is deflection, whatery, belittlement. This is the case of sort of, if you continually say this is mundane, perhaps enough people will believe you. You start feeling ridiculous. I have to say, as a progressive, i often feel ridiculous around trump people getting upset about things, worrying about the future of our democracy. What the lawyer was doing was creating a Permission System<\/a> for people to reject and sort of dismiss these charges as just not mattering. Yeah, thats really striking. As you say, the structure is a psychological concept, to also give people a way to deflect or dismiss even if they dont endorse the underlying thing. They manual street or Country Club Republicans<\/a> who have shown no prior interest in insurrections or coups but they want this tax policy or Something Else<\/a> i say that because again, well do these interviews, but its important to understand what the truth is, what the law is. Know theres nothing routine about using fraud to try to, even peacefully, even if you werent doing it violently, overthrow the election on january 6th, or 19th, or 20th. Michael, thank you for joining us in the middle of the hot summer august friday. We appreciate it. Great being here. Absolutely. Weve got a lot more coming up. I mentioned its a special show. Andrew weissman has some thoughts on not only whether there should be cameras in the courtroom, but these Court Sketches<\/a> we are required to use. Plus more intrigue at the doj. We have a lot coming up. Astepro allergy, steroid free allergy relief that starts working in 30 minutes, while other Allergy Sprays<\/a> take hours. With astepros unbeatably fast allergy relief you can astepro and go your best defense against erosion and cavities is strong enamel nothing beats it. New pronamel active shield actively shields the enamel to defend against erosion and cavities. I think that this product is a gamechanger for my patients it really works. New projects means new project managers. You need to hire. I need indeed. Indeed you do. 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Elderly dementia patients have increased risk of death or stroke. Report unusual changes in behavior or suicidal thoughts. Antidepressants can increase these in children and young adults. Report fever, stiff muscles, or confusion, as these may be lifethreatening, or uncontrolled Muscle Movements<\/a>, which may be permanent. High blood sugar, which can lead to coma or death, weight gain, and high cholesterol may occur. Movement dysfunction and restlessness are common side effects. Stomach and sleep issues, dizziness, increased appetite, and fatigue are also common. Side effects may not appear for several weeks. I didnt have to change my treatment. I just gave it a lift. Ask about vraylar and learn how abbvie could help you save. Weve had upaffidavits on Defendant Trump<\/a>s trials, including two federal trials, which means well be getting a lot more Court Sketches<\/a>. Lets see if we have any, show you some of these sketches. One of the things that happens, there we go, is donald trump, like when he was arraigned, goes in there and its kind of funny to remember that basically, the reason we have to rely on sketches in a time of endless video, social media, artificial intelligence, were still in kind of a technology, if you will, thats many, many centuries old because the cameras are not allowed in federal courtrooms. This one youre looking at here, donald trump with what looks to be his lawyer next to him, maybe talking to him, maybe covering his mouth, drew all kinds of reaction because people were debating whether it looks like trump or what you kids might do. Andrew weissman knows his way around federal courtrooms. Thats where he spent is majority of his career. I want to show you a lighthearted moment where hes been on the program, we were in realtime looking at these sketches when they first broke, trying to figure out who was who, what was what. Here was andrew taking some light shade at one of the artists. This is holding to account a political leader who tried to engage in a coup. The Courtroom Sketches<\/a> are not the best. Thats sort of my read of a poor drawing. Wow, shots fired at the cartoonist. Exactly. We went on to discuss where andrew checks out art, and he likes chelsea. I say all that by way of introduction, because andrew and mary mccourt, who you see on this great preview tease, are going to be our special guests on Prosecuting Donald Trump<\/a> which airs this sunday, 10 00 p. M. Eastern. It is brandnew. It will be our special, a tease off some of their work and the Prosecuting Donald Trump<\/a> podcast. I am hosting it or youll see im cohosting with andrew. Its brandnew, airing For The First Time<\/a> sunday night. Its a chance to go even deeper i know what you might say, we go deep on the beat, we do. Going even deeper into some of the arcane and detailed legal matters. Join us sunday, 10 00 p. M. Eastern. Dvr it, set up a dvr recording, maybe catch it later when you feel like it. This sunday, 10 00 p. M. Eastern, on msnbc. Were going to fit in a break. I mentioned were going to end the week in style. Thats by the end of the hour. Before that well look at what it means when doj has so much intrigue that it has more than one Special Counsel<\/a>. I learned i can stay undetectable with fewer medicines. Thats why i switched to dovato. Dovato is a complete hiv treatment for some adults. No other complete hiv pill uses fewer medicines to help keep you undetectable than dovato. Detect this most hiv pills contain 3 or 4 medicines. Dovato is as effective with just 2. If you have hepatitis b, dont stop dovato without talking to your doctor. Dont take dovato if youre allergic to its ingredients or taking dofetilide. This can cause serious or lifethreatening side effects. If you have a rash or allergic reaction symptoms, stop dovato and get medical help right away. 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Serious infections and blood clots, some fatal; cancers, including lymphoma and skin cancer; death, heart attack, stroke, and tears in the stomach or intestines occurred. People 50 and older with at least 1 Heart Disease<\/a> risk factor have higher risks. Dont take if allergic to rinvoq as serious reactions can occur. Tell your doctor if you are or may become pregnant. Put uc in check and keep it there with rinvoq. Ask your gastroenterologist about rinvoq and learn how abbvie can help you save. Turning to other news out of doj, the Attorney General<\/a>, Merrick Garland<\/a>, today granted Special Counsel<\/a> status to the current federal prosecutor who has been dealing with this hunter biden probe. That is a trumpappointed u. S. Attorney, david weiss. This has been a multiyear probe into president bidens son. The appointment comes two weeks after a federal judge refused a proposed plea deal, and thats unusual, these are often approved that would have finally settled these tax charges and a basically lying on a federal form charge against the president s son, hunter biden. Prosecutors that weisss team wrote in a court filing the parties have engaged in further Plea Negotiations<\/a> but are at an impasse. The government believes the case will not resolve short of a trial. A lawyer for hunter biden says they expect a fair resolution on behalf of their client. As a Special Counsel<\/a>, weiss basically gets additional independence. Garland had already gone out of his way to pick one of the few people who was a holdover from the Trump Administration<\/a> which was designed to basically preclude or forestall any concerns that this was somehow going to be different than a normal, fair probe. This individual will also submit a report to garland. Thats an update on that doj news which broke today. When when we come back, well end the peek with something very interesting and very positive. Your best defense against erosion and cavities is strong enamel nothing beats it. New pronamel active shield actively shields the enamel to defend against erosion and cavities. I think that this product is a gamechanger for my patients it really works. My clothes look fresh but i need them to smell fresh, too. Thats why i add downy unstopables to my wash. Now ill be smelling fresh all day long. Still fresh. Still fresh, you nasty little goblins still fresh still . Still. Still here. Still fresh get 6 times longerlasting freshness, plus odor protection. This backtoschool season, downy and tide are giving back with 1. 5 Million Dollars<\/a> in scholarships. Enter to win. The citi custom cash\u2120 card automatically adjusts to earn you more cash back in your top eligible spend category. Hi. You dont have to keep tabs on rotating categories. This is the only rotating i care about. Or activate anything to earn. Your cash back automatically adjusts for you. Can i get a Cucumber Water<\/a> . Earn 5 cash back that automatically adjusts to your top eligible spend category, up to 500 spent each Billing Cycle<\/a> with the citi custom cash\u2120 card. I love it. [voice vibrating] start your day with nature made. The 1 pharmacist recommended vitamin and supplement brand. christina wanna know the secret ingredient to running my business . The 1 pharm tina recommended her. christina being all over, all at once. tina all the time. christina but my old network wasnt cutting it. And thats not good for baking. Or judging. Or writing. So, we switched to verizon, the Network Businesses<\/a> rely on. With Verizon Business<\/a> unlimited, i get 5g, truly unlimited data, and unlimited hotspot data. So, No Matter What<\/a>, im running this kitchen. vo make the switch. Its your business. Its your verizon. Wow, you get to watch all your favorite stuff. Its to die for. And its all right here. Streaming was never this easy, you know. This is the way. You really went all out didnt you . Um, its called commitment. Could you turn down the volume . Here, you can try. Get way more into what your into when you stream on the xfinity 10g network. Many americans are marking the 50th anniversary of hiphop. Here on the beat, we dont need a birthday or a news hook to honor a platform of the culture. We have been trying to do that since the show first launches. Just like jazz and soul before it, hiphop has endured by not only tapping into authentic, real American Experiences<\/a> no matter how rough or tough or sad, but leading in areas where mainstream figures sometimes fall behind. That could be Police Brutality<\/a> or the drug war or harlem, compton, or atlanta. Now an epicenter of culture, music, and political change, i think we have all been following that. Well, a lot of young people in America First<\/a> learned more about atlanta and the trap, as its sometimes called, from atlantas own narrators. Andre 3,000, gucci, ludacris, t. I. , the future, and then, well, learned a lot from jeezy, the rapper and entrepreneur who burst on the scene with hits like soul survivor, put on, and my president is black, which barack obama certainly heard. He famously said his first term energy was al green. But his second term, triumph theme music, was jeezy. Thats a pretty high compliment from the highest office in the land. And jeezy is our special guest tonight. Whats going on . Here we are, after plenty of writing, poetry, across ten albums, i want to make sure Everybody Knows<\/a> you have your first book, adversity for sale. You have to believe your story of struggle. Hustle and success. Congratulations. Thanks for being here. There thank you, brother. A long time coming. Absolutely. Obama shout out, what i mentioned about atlanta. I mean that. Im not just saying that. Whether its our viewers or some of our viewers, maybe their kids. You narrated atlanta. You put a spotlight on it, and a different light on it. Where does that connect to the story youre telling in the book . I think it all connects. It started with my Humble Beginnings<\/a> and how i learned about life was through music. I grew up on the eightball mjgs, outkast, tupac was the one who took me. One thing about atlanta, its like a melting pot of creativity, leaders, and entrepreneurs. And the music is the root to all that. I was able to tie all that together with the streets and just the tempo of the streets and the grit of the streets in my music. Thats something that matters when we look over the course of your career. In the book, you really share how you came up, which might be different from people learning about you when you were, as we might say, on, succeeding. We have put together some highlights. Lets take a look. We got the legend here, man. What it do . What the business is . Its your boy. Talk about a man thats grind after grind. Staying relevant, staying everywhere, with a hit record, hit album, classic album. You see it runs the gauntlet. Real, man. Have you put my Tour Set List<\/a> together. That what we do. And i was thinking about some of those high points that i remember, just growing up on it naturally. Then you starting the book out by saying, lets be real. I started out as a thief. I started out doing things i wouldnt do now that im in the position that i dont feel the pressure i have to. Walk us through that. Basically, i lived abroad. And my parents got divorced, i had to move back with my grandmother into a small town in georgia. And most of my family is between atlanta and south georgia. And i was basically back in, you know, real life, like poverty. And i had to really figure it out. So i was ambitious and curious. And i wanted things. I didnt know how to get them. So i thought stealing at that point was success because if theres something there, and i am able to get it without you catching me, i felt successful. That was in the beginning until i found out that stealing wasnt a good thing. Then after that, i wanted to get back to what i knew, because i did have a different life. So now, i dont want to work in the factory, i dont want to clean nobodys house. So now im looking at my older cousin and theyre hustling. Im going, i can do that. And then i started hustling. Thats how that came about. Led me read from that. Culture is so influential. If people are allowed to grow up and mature, then we can mature along with them. We have a society here thats cut down so many people. You write, i always gravitated towards the bad kids because thats what i knew. In the hood, i didnt feel out of place. Everybody was going through something, dysfunctional families were the norm. Being bad was almost a good thing, a way to fit in. Is it possible then to make it cool to be good . Im trying. You know, not to be cool to be good, but cool to evolve. Yeah. To become, you know, your best version of yourself. And i think that thats the message, because all the music has ever been to me is how to get out of poverty. What happens when you get out of it . Do you still keep the same mind set and bring that into your life or do you pivot. If your Lifestyle Changes<\/a> but your mind set doesnt, youre bringing it with you. Which is happening in culture if you look at it. Rap is the new streets. Its more dangerous than being in the streets at some point. You know what im saying, if you look at that and culture, 50 years of hiphop, were celebrating. I want to be the front runner, the trail blazer. If youre a lion, youre a lion. Youre still who you are, but youre able to evolve. Youre able to live out what you worked so hard for. When you look at all these kids who die young, pop smoke, nipsey hussle. They were great people. And they really had a vision. But what happened was, you know, when you bring that same energy with you to your new life, your new position, youre not exempt. So its like, at what point do you evolve so you can be in the game 10, 15, 20 years like a jayz, like a dr. Dre. Like a sean combs. This era doesnt look like what theyre molding. Were not above dad jokes around here. You go by jeezy. Yeah. Were going to take a look at young jeezy. By which i mean, not just your old rap name, but also a younger jeezy. It really works now that you have gotten on. Lets take a look. This is running back a ways. Young jeezy. Younger generation coming up. Doing my thing. Streets aint the same. Im trying to restore that. They dont want to hear what i rap up. When im out, like hey, man, its tight. Okay. I havent seen that in a long time. Same guy . Yeah, same guy. Different mind set. Yeah. So the final thing i do, these are like Lightning Round<\/a> in a word or a sentence. In a word or a sentence, atlanta. Music. Culture. Atlanta. I like that. The trap means the trap means thats where the cheese is at. Hustling means. Hustling means that thats the beginning point. The hustling must die, so the ceo can be born. Success means. Overcoming adversity. That brings me to the last one. I was going to say, adversity for sale means adversity for sale means that you learn from your failures. You dont fail. Just know i had to fail my way here. I didnt succeed the whole way. So im giving you my playbook. I love that. Got to believe. Thank you for coming through. Thank you for having me. And we wish all of hiphop a happy 50th anniversary today. You can find me at arimelber. Com, and joy reid takes over right now. Tonight on the reidout we dont want you to speak about the case. The case. Sir, wed like to talk to you about your case. Im sorry, im not allowed to talk about it. Somehow, thats not good for votes. 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