Thank you so much for letting us into your homes on this monday. We are grateful. The beat with katy faang in far ari melber. Always good to see you and thanks. Welcome to the beat. Im katie faang in for ari melber. Former President Donald Trump back in court facing a judge as his Civil Fraud Trial begins. This New York State Supreme Court trial is the first of many cases looming over trumps election bid, and the judge last week already found him liable for massive fraud. New York Attorney general Letitia James accusing trump of years of overinflating his net worth and misrepresenting his companys assets. Donald trump and the other defendants have committed persistent and repeated fraud. Last week we proved that in our motion for Summary Judgment. Today we will prove our other claims. My message is simple. No matter how powerful you are, no how much money you think you may have, no one is above the law. Trump satin side the courtroom for hours, flanked by his lawyers as prosecutors explained in detail the alleged acts of fraud saying trump, quote, overvalued his statements from 812 million to 2. 2 billion, that he knew that they were false and use said them to obtain benefits he was not entitled to. The Opening Statement featured never before seen Deposition Video including trumps own. To meet your obligation here of presenting information in accordance with gap, was Alan Weisselberg responsible for that . I would say yes. Throwing former Trump Organization cfo Alan Weisselberg under the bus. Now, remember, weisselberg has already been convicted of tax fraud and we learned through his newly released Deposition Video that he never took the Certified Public Accountant exam. If i said the phrase gap, g afrmths ap, are you familiar with that acronym . I am familiar with that, yes. Tell me what you know about gaaap. Generally accepted Accounting Principles. I dont know gaap and i never to be the cpa exam and i dont know the Com Bonences Of What Gaap is. Are there any components of what gaap is . Not really. No. Call me crazy, but it seems like basic Accounting Principles might be important knowledge for a cfo, and lets be clear, ignorance of it is not a defense. The prosecution also playing clips of trumps sons. Heres don junior laughing about those same Accounting Principles weisselberg said he knew nothing about. Do you have any familiarity with an acronym gaap, g afrmths ap . Generally accepted Accounting Principles, yes. How did you become familiar with that acronym . Probably in accounting 101 at wharton. Okay. What do they teach you about generally accepted Accounting Principles at wharton. Im not an accountant, but they are generally accepted. [ laughter ] Anything Else . Thats pretty much what i remember from accounting 101. So have you told me everything you know about gaap . Basically. Im sure i can come up with some creative stuff to kill time, but id be doing neither of us a favor in terms of educating ourselves. Eric trump also questioned, saying he doesnt even remember talking about the Financial Conditions. I dont remember a videoconference in 2021 talking about the statement of Financial Condition. Did i i mean, maybe you can show me something, but again, i dont think i ever signed a statement of Financial Condition. I dont ive done a lot to try and jog my memory, and i simply cant because i dont think ive ever had any involvement in the statement of the Financial Condition to the best of my knowledge. Even though trump reportedly appeared solemn in court, maybe even bored, yawning at times, he was visibly irate outside of the Courthouse Railing the case and targeting the judge with nasty accusations. This is a judge that should be out of office. This is a judge that some people say could be charged criminally for what hes doing. This is really now getting dirty between jack smith and between all of these doj people helping them along. This is a pure witch hunt for purposes of interfering with the elections. Now well have more on trumps defense later in the hour, but first, joining me now is neil katyal former actor solicitor general, mia wiley, former civil attorney and now ceo of the Leadership Conference on civil and human rights and lisa rubin, msnbc legal analyst who was inside the courtroom today. Lisa, ill start with you. Kind of set the table for us. What was the atmosphere like inside of the courtroom especially with donald trump being present . You know, katie, it was different from other proceedings ive been to where donald trump has been present and noticeably different from the florida arraignment that i attended when trump was indicted on the classified documents related charges. That proceeding was solemn. It was sober. It was silent. You could hear a pin drop before it started. This one, by comparison, even though it doesnt involve criminal charges, this might as well be trumps most important indictment as far as he is concerned because he was belligerent. He was crossing his arms and shaking his head, at times even physically prodding chris kise to get up and argue with the judge or with the Attorney General because this is that important to donald trump. This lies at the heart of his public image and his private image, as well, as americas most successful real estate tycoon, and it was clear that this was very important to him down to the moment where he exited the courtroom and paused to glare very dramatically at tish james, the new York Attorney general. You know, neal, the prosecution saying in their Opening Statement they will show that trumpsages of fraud provide the evidence needed to bar trump from bank loans and that each defendant continued to engage in illegal acts such as falsifying the records of the Trump Organization. So whats your take on the prosecutions Opening Statement, which by the way, was shorter than expected, judge engoron giving more time for both sides to use and in the end Attorney General wallace didnt take that time. Should he have . I dont think so. I thought Kevin Wallace did a really great job of just explaining how donald trump and his family and others basically reverse engineered the value of individual asset like trump tower and 40 Wall Street to arrive at the president s trying to get to a certain level of net worth, and i think the general point, katie, of what happened today is karma catching up on donald trump. Donald trump has evaded Legal Process for so long like a pro, but its basically catching up on him. I mean, ari is not here, so i can go outside of hiphop quote the great legal scholar taylor swift, karmas going to track you down step by step from town to town and thats what were seeing here in the very first, you know, formal trial beginning against donald trump. So, maya i want to get your take. Youve dealt with civil cases like this. This is a Civil Fraud Trial and because its not a criminal case, do you think it was okay for the prosecution to take this particular approach for Opening Statements and reiterating and reinforcing to Justice Engoron something that hes pretty much found in terms of liability in terms of trump and the other defendants . Yes. I think thats exactly right. I agree with neal. Look, this is a bench trial. Theres not a jury here. This is a judge that already issued a scathing opinion, and i mean, scathing. Thats the kind of opinion when youre a lawyer on the receiving end not just of losing your emotion in the case of donald trump attorneys are getting excoriated by the judge using words like preposterous preposterous and invoking Groundhog Day in terms of lawyers making arguments that he and the A Pell At Division have already dispatched. It was exactly the kind of thing that is legal name calling, just got to say that. So its no surprise to me that the prosecution walked in here and said this is a judge that understands this case, understands the the legal underpinnings of this case, understands what to listen for and doesnt need to be talked down to, doesnt need to have that be laid out. So well just make a plain, simple, stated and well bring the evidence to prove it and i think that was a wise move. Neal, i want to stay on the point that maya just made. This was an argument, although it was Opening Statement and it was not supposed to be an argument. Theres been a bench trial about elena habba, her failure to opt out for a jury rile and i look at the New York State Statute thats applicable here and after the Attorney GeneralLetitia James said no jury trial which for the defense team for donald trump could have elected for a jury trial and so, neal, do you think donald trump is having this crashing reality moment where hes realizing that maybe the lawyers that he hired just really arent competent enough to do this type work for him . Its possible that its a competence issue. I always hesitate, you know, to say that, but certainly the accountant he hired as you were just saying a moment ago, katie doesnt even understand accounting 101 even before that. As a College Freshman i knew what gaap was and i did not even take accounting and thats a little frightening. When it comes to the waiver of a jury trial which is a significant issue for donald trump, i have no idea whether this was in intentional, purposeful decision by trumps legal team to waive his right to a jury trial or not because with trump and his team its hard to know where incompetence ends and where actual strategy begins. I think one thing is very clear is that the episode with this waived jury trial suggests to me that trumps attorneys should be focusing a little bit less on the grandstanding that theyre doing with the statements from the media and a little more, making sure that the legal nice tees are kept and that their client is protected. Lisa, trumps former fixer Michael Cohen told prosecutors a portion that was played today during Opening Statements, that he as in Michael Cohen and Alan Weisselberg, inflated assets to boost trumps worth. He wanted to be high or the forbes list, and he then said im actually not worth 6 billion. In fact, i think its now worth eight with everything thats going on. Alan and i were tasked with taking the assets and increasing each of those Asset Classes in order to accommodate that 8 billion number. Lisa, we know that theres independent documents that the ags office has corroborated not only Michael Cohens testimony and some of the stuff that weisselberg himself has admitted to doing. Was there visible reaction from donald trump when this particular portion was played and do you think it strengthens the case to have Michael Cohen testify to this . I cant tell you what Donald Trumps reaction was to Michael Cohen in part because i only saw him from the back, but i can tell you the lawyers reaction to having Michael Cohen involved was huge, and they focused heavily on Michael Cohen essentially accusing the Attorney Generals Office of constructing this entire case around Michael Cohen when actuality hes going to play a small part here to talk about the motives that donald trump had in Reverse Engineering those valuations to meet an overall end objective, but the objective will lie in emails and will lie in testimony and Text Messages and Even Communications where they tried to get a Tax Deduction and then lowered the value of the property correspondingly only to increase others. Thats really where the crux of the evidence is, and i do think Michael Cohen will be an important witness, but certainly not the central figure in this trial that trumps lawyers have made him out to be. Lisa rubin, were going to say goodbye, but ill say thank you for the Color Commentary from being inside the courtroom. Neal and maya, please stay with me. Coming up, we have a special guest on accountability for trump and equal justice under the law, plus an expert on trump finances that will break down why this trial is such a threat to his brand and to his financial bottom line. But first, our fact check on the Trump Defense claims today when were back in just 60 seconds. E. As i was writing, i found that i just wasnt as sharp and i new i needed to do something so i started taking prevagen. I realized that i was much more clear and i was remembering the details that i was supposed to. Prevagen keeps my brain working right. Prevagen. At stores everywhere without a prescription. When you smell the amazing scent of gain flings. Time stops. and you realize youre in love. Steve . With a laundry detergent. gain flings. Seriously good scent. sean i wish for the amazing new iphone 15 pro jason sean do you mean this one the one with titanium . Switch to verizon, you can trade in any iphone, and get the new iphone 15 pro on them. vo trade in any iphone in any condition for a new iphone 15 pro on us. Only on verizon. So were back with more on the trump civil fraud case. We just heard the prosecutions Opening Statements and the arguments supporting that. We are now looking at trumps defense. In court trumps attorneys chris kise and leena haba gave Opening Statements and kise insisting that, quote, the Attorney General has no case and then claiming, in essence, that its all just a big misunderstanding saying, quote, the ags office is trying to convince everyone that theres only one way to find a value, and adding that there are different ways to value a given property. Trumps lawyers adding the Loan Transactions were successful and profitable. Quote, the banks made well over 100 million. There was also another attorney representing the trump family, eric trump and don jr. And the trump family attorney used his time to attack a key witness for the prosecution, Michael Cohen. Saying, quote, when you talk about credibility you will have a guy who lied to everyone, a convicted felon. And despite the wild fluctuations in trumps valuation, sometimes as much as ten times the appraised value, leena habba said, quote, was there no intent to defraud. Period. The end. But of course, the judge has already decided that trump and the other defendants committed fraught and thats now settled as a matter of law. So this trial is about how much money will trump pay in damages, potentially upwards of a quarter of A Billion Dollars and whether he and the Family Members that are a part of this case will effectively be banned from doing business in his home state of new york. Back with me is neal katyal and maya wiley. I want to start with you. Donald trumps defense saying this is a, quote, Victimless Crime and that the lenders profited from these Financial Transactions and how do you think Justice Engoron will address that particular argument . Well, in a sense he has already addressed it in his opinion that he issued last week which was to say, look, you know, the way the law in new york works this is about deception. This is about the capacity or the tendency to create an environment in a climate of fraud. This isnt about whether or not the harm that the Attorney General is focusing on is the harm that this kind of environment clite crtes, and yes, you know, now that with these rng charges essentially the counts, i should say, there is a question of intent and the defense that donald trump had the intent to do and how materiel it was, and those are facts that the judge said are going to be at issue in this trial and its not that they have to show that there was an actual loss of money and that is one of the things that frustrated the judge and had the judge excoriating these lawyers and in some inst