The threat of terrorists and weapons in the area and locate hostages. This is not the all out Ground Invasion. Theyve also tweeted moments ago they are striking hezbollah targets in the north inside lebanon Secretary Blinken earlier in doha qatar asking about the larger Military Offensive expected in the coming days. The way israel does this matters. The way any democracy has to deal with such a situation matters, and to that end, we discussed with the israelis, urged the israelis to use every possible precaution to avoid armed civilians. Joining me now, ben rhodes, former Obama National security adviser to president obama. Ben, what Secretary Blinken was saying today and yesterday was that israel has a right to defend itself, that the u. S. Is firmly behind israels military decisions and helping with them, but he was very pointed in, again, today especially in qatar, that theyve urged israel to try to limit the damage to civilians. How do you do that with a Ground Invasion in that urban area . That, andrea, is the biggest question in the world right now. From the beginning the Biden Administration clearly wrapped their arms around such profound trauma and supported them in their determination to root out hamas that youve also heard that the Administration Keep returning to this line about following the laws of war, and that, to me, is their message at trying to limit civilian deaths and trying to limit the kind of collective punishment of the people of gaza that might be contrary to the laws of war. Now, in terms of the operational questions that raises, there are different scales of Military Operations that could take place here in gaza. A lot of talk about Ground Invasions. Is that more limited incursions, operations to try to go after hamas cells or rescue hostages, or is that a full scale reoccupation of gaza and potential dislocation of, as we were hearing last night, maybe over a million people. Theres a big spectrum in between those two things, and so i think the question in the coming days is just how expansive are israels military objectives, and the more expansive they get in a densely populated place like gaza, the more risk there is so civilians. Thats just the reality, andrea. And ben, stay with us. I want to also bring in nbcs raf sanchez. Raf, what can you tell us about the Breaking News from the idf that they have moved into gaza in the last 24 hours. This does not seem to be the large scale invasion that you havent seen the tanks moving in, but these are targeted targeted hits, they say, to take out terror cells and that they actually did engage in fire with one of them. Thats right, andrea, these appear to be small scale special forces penetrations inside gaza. This is not what the israelis sometimes refer to as the big army, this is not the tanks, this is not the armored personnel carriers, these are small highly trained Elite Commando Units operating on the other side of the fence as it were. They say that they not only took on groups of Hamas Terrorists inside of gaza, but that they were there gathering evidence to try to locate the hostages it. Now, we dont know exactly where they were operating. We dont know exactly what kind of evidence they were gathering. The Working Assumption among Israeli Military officials, among people who Pay Attention to this region is that given the value this hamas assigns to these hostages, given that they were seen as very, very significant bargaining chips, it is likely that hamas is keeping them under ground in this elaborate network of tunnels underneath gaza city, underneath other locations inside of gaza. We dont know if these Israeli Special forces were operating trying to locate those tunnels, if they were potentially seeking to capture hamas operatives who might have information, but it sounds like this operation according to the Israeli Military was part firefight and part evidence gathering investigation on the other side of the line in gaza. And of course, andrea, all of this happening in the looming shadow of what we do expect will be a traditional large scale Ground Offensive at some point potentially very soon, andrea. One concern, ben, for the white house and all americans certainly and israel has to be the life of the hostages because once the full scale invasion starts, if it does start sometime after 5 00 tonight, which was the time line that the israelis announced giving them some hours ago a 24hour notice, 5 00 eastern in our time zone would be midnight in israel, if it does start then, doesnt the life of the hostages mean less to hamas, their leverage than kind of becomes much less powerful . Yeah, i think the life and safety of the hostages have to be on peoples minds right now, and the challenges presuming that those hostages are in gaza, its quite likely that, you know, hamas is going to try to embed themselves in civilian areas or even when you hear about, you know, potential evacuations of people to other parts of gaza, which i think i cant really be done at the scale that were reported last night, a million people, but hamas is likely to bring hostages to those areas and go there themselves. Youre talking about gaza as probably the least safe place on earth right now, and so the safety of those hostages either at the hands of hamas themselves, as you said theyve threatened to execute people in retribution or in the midst of an ongoing war zone, that becomes certainly a question. Its one of the many risks that will have to be weighed here. Theres a risk of civilian deaths. Theres a risk to hostages. Theres the risk of the nature of this war causing some escalation that brings in hezbollah or that inflames situations on the west bank. So theres the question of just how big and how does this Ground Operation in gaza proceed. Then theres the question of what other effects does that create and the hostages is obviously the most acute one for a lot of israeli and other families around the world missing their loved ones. U. S. Deputy National Security adviser witnessed not only urban warfare but hostage rescue attempts, the efforts to go in and get people out, to actually negotiate for them, how challenging is it in this context with hamas . And i guess Secretary Blinken in qatar had the best chance with the qataris who, you know, have hosted and have welcomed the hamas leadership there. Thats right, theres a political track and a military track. I think politically, qatar and to some extent egypt have channels to hamas, and im sure theyre behind things that try to identify perhaps there are some hostages, children, women, certain foreign nationals that hamas might be more willing to release. Well have to see. Its a complicated question because hamas usually likes to exchange hostages. They usually like to get palestinian Prisoners Released in return. I do not imagine that the israelis understand in their current mindset are going to want to legitimize hamas in any way by making any kind of concession there. This may be more what can the qataris do to lean on hamas to at least have some humanitarian releases. As a military matter, youre right, andrea, ive been in the Situation Room when really difficult questions are raised about whether to launch rescue efforts, but ive been in rooms where that was difficult where youre talking about somebody whos being held in a compound somewhere. If these people are being held in this incredibly densely populated area of gaza that is literally a war zone, the ability to have kind of Precision Rescue operations is just incredibly difficult because its taking place in the context of urban warfare, and so i do think this is going to be one of the more complicated questions, assuming that israel does go forward. And a big question too, andrea is how good are intelligence, do we have intelligence about where these hostages are, obviously. If we dont know where they are, then you really can guard against things that might put them in harms way. If you do, then you can at least either try to rescue them or try to avoid doing something that inadvertently harms them. This is an incredibly complicated circumstance. Thats such a good point. You can see it right there from the ground how complicated it will be to try to find them, especially under open warfare. There was some suggestion that israel would not attack at the midnight deadline because it would be in the middle of the jewish sabbath. They would wait until sundown saturday, which would be around 2 00 our time in the afternoon. But theres no way really to predict this, is there . Theres no way to predict this. I can tell you, speaking to Israeli Military officials there is just an absolute determination to smash hamass ability to carry out another attack like this, and frankly, to get revenge. You can see it in the faces of visibly outraged Senior Officers trembling at some of the sites that we visited over the last couple of days where you have had women raped, babies killed, this is something that has cut to the core of even the most hardened israeli battlefield commanders, all of which is a long way of saying i think they will attack at the point where they think they have the most success, and i dont think necessarily that the shabbat hours will deter them, but i do think the hostages are just an enormously complicating factor for a Military Operation that is already fiendishly complicated. Urban warfare in one of the most densely populated places on earth against an emboldened enemy who has just scored a historic victory from their perspective, and is fighting on home turf. It is a very, very difficult operation from all angles. Angela. Raf sanchez, thank you so much. Please be safe. Just you and your team, please take care as best you can. And ben, i also want to get your reaction to what we saw yesterday from Secretary Blinken, a Jewish AmericanSecretary Of State sharing many emotional moments with israeli families and survivors invoking his jewish ancestry in remarks that were seen around the world. This, you know him so well, his stepfather has written about the holocaust and is a survivor, his Grandfather A Survivor of peg rums in russia. What does his background mean as far as who he is . Andrea, youre right and the thing about tony is hes a relatively private person, right . And he is incredibly disciplined person on the world stage. He rarely lets his guard down, he rarely show emotion. He does the work. Those of us who know him in private, know how much he is motivated by his the experience of his family, by the fact that the holocaust is in his family, by the fact that his family came to this country and was able to accomplish so much. His commitment to Public Service is entirely rooted in that experience, so what we saw yesterday is a person who many people see behind closed doors, an incredibly empathetic person and somebody whose Public Service is tied to that history rooting back to the holocaust. That illuminates him, and i think the world saw yesterday the person that many of us have seen in private, which is, again, an incredibly proud, committed, american who really values the identity that his family brings to that service. From the response of the israelis whom ive spoken to and many friends and family of them, its been profoundly welcomed in israel. Ben rhodes, thank you so much. Im sure. Thanks, andrea. And joining us now is roe anyone bergman, the staff writer for the new york times, the author of Rise And Kill First the secret history of israels targeted assassination. Also with us joe b. Warrick. Ronin, first to you, your reaction that there have been these limited raids in gaza from the Israeli Defense force. What are you hearing from your sources about what kind of intelligence about the hostages that they might be able to gather . Very limited, hamas we need to bear in mind was able to hide one soldier for five and a half years until he was released for more than 1,000 hamas prisoners. Based on that experience meaning israel was not able to free him, get to him in a Military Operation, and then was forced to release so many in exchange for him, hamas came to the idea that if they kidnapped few israelis, they can release all of their prisoners, and initial interrogation of the perpetrators, the terrorists that were captured, not killed during the attack, the horrifying attack on saturday reveal again and again and again that this was one of the basic motives to get as many hostages and get the release of the prisoners, i think that they got it wrong and that israel is instead of releasing those, israel will go all in with the purpose of destroying the regime of hamas. And im not sure how much in the overall calculus before going to the attack to this offensive, retribution and importance would be seen to the safety of the hostages because if you do that, then you do not go to attack highly dense, high populated area. Its either or and i think that israel chose one target that supersedes everything, and that target is to dissemble the hamas regime and paying less attention to what until eight days ago prevented israel throughout the years from going to ground attack, International Prestige after so much collateral damage. And of course guard the israeli soldiers, the life of which is considered sacred to israel and now hostages. All those values are now less important than the one goal of the israeli leadership, which is to take hamas down. But how do they do that, ronen . How do they do that when the hamas leaders are in doha . Im not sure that all of them are in doha. I would assume that two or three that theyre looking for most, the senior Military Commander of hamas who survived five or six previous attempts of israel on his life, and the leader of hamas in gaza strip, im not sure, these are going to leave. In any case, if israel is able to as the chief of staff, Lieutenant General said this week, he pointed to sinwar as the commander, the initiate tor of this attack, and said we are going to dissemble all the structure beneath him, so if all those people, maybe some of the leaders know but if if all the others are arrested, all the weapons is collected and maybe some kind of symbolic picture of one of the leaders being arrested or being killed, i think israel could say that this is the end of hamas regime. Of course it doesnt say anything about the day after, who will control gaza, and who will guarantee israel if it doesnt control gaza that in a year and a half you have just the same with other people. And jobi, youre also looking into hamass links to other terror groups, which groups . What can you tell us about that . Andrea, theres a whole constellation of groups as we know. Some have had their problems with hamas over the years. Theres been some real rivalries and fighting in some plays. Right now theres this sense that everyone is seeing an opportunity, theyre seeing israel weaken and theyre calling on local forces to strike out against other western targets to put pressure on their governments, to carry out lone wolf attacks, and so, you know, we see these calls going out on the internet right now on social media, and theres a great expectation that there could be violence not just around israel, but in other places as well. Do you accept the u. S. Preliminary assessment that iran did not plan this specific attack . In fact, nbc was reporting that they had specific intelligence that iranian officials were surprised by it. I do think there was a lack of awareness of at least the timing. Obviously instances like this require months and wedge at least a year of planning, and there perhaps were expertise exchanged. We certainly know that iran provides money, provides weapons, provides training, and has done so for years wechlt. They sure are applauding them from the sidelines and they potentially could become a party in this in other ways. We also know just from what were seeing on the ground is that the weapons carried by these hamas soldiers are often iranian made or at least have iranian pedigree in the sense that the rockets that were essentially iranian designed but perhaps modified by hamas. So theres no question that u. S. Officials said, there was broad complicity by iran in this attack. We just dont know if they gave the green light and said do this now. And ronen, what can you tell us about the missed warnings . Israel has acknowledged this was a colossal defense and intelligence failure. Yeah, just the other way around meaning first intelligence failure. Not supplying the alert in the night just before between friday and saturday, there were hints, some acceleration in traffic, and some of the channels that were monitored by Israeli Intelligence suggesting that something is happening. There was some discussions between high officials, but at the end, it did not yield into a clear warning to the soldiers that they should be on some kind of alert. The lower level of alert was not so soldiers that were supposed to be on guard were sleeping. Some of them were sleeping and were killed during their sleep. Theres some kind of a massive malfunction in Israeli Intelligence that happened exactly 50 years and a day after the previous blow there when Israeli Intelligence was not able to give the alert before the Surprise Attack of 1973. The difference between the two is that