Transcripts For MSNBCW The 20240703 : vimarsana.com

MSNBCW The July 3, 2024

Beat. The reidout with joy reid starts now. Tonight on the reidout how do you plead to the five counts of conspiracy to commit intentional interference in the performance of Election Duties . Guilty. How do you plead to the six counts to perform Election Duties . Guilty. How do you plead to count 15, filing false documents in indictment 23sc188947 . Guilty. Our show tonight is brought to you by the number three. Kenneth chesebro becomes the third codefendant to plead guilty and agree to tell a Jury Everything he knows about trumps plot to overturn the Georgia Election results. While on capitol hill, it was speaker vote number three that ultimately sank the maga hopes and dreams of jim jordan to become americas insurrection friendly speaker of the house. And tonight, more than three new candidates are throwing their hat into the ring for the gavel. Plus, a Major Development in The Middle East tonight, as we see the first photo of an American Mother and daughter after having been freed from captivity by hamas. But we begin tonight with the dominos starting to fall in the Fulton County case against donald trump. After another one of his former Legal Advisers and codefendants flipped. Today, Kenneth Chesebro unexpectedly pleaded guilty for illegally conspiring to overturn trumps 2020 Election Loss in georgia. Just hours after Jury Selection began for his trial. Which was set to begin next week, alongside another former trump attorney, Sidney Powell, who also entered a surprise guilty plea yesterday morning. Chesebro is now the third codefendant to accept a plea deal. However, the first to do so on a felony charge. Part of the deal, chesebro must pay a fine, do five years probation, and write an appall aenl letter to the state of georgia. Most notably, he must truthfully testify against the remaining codefendants, including trump. As well as provide documents and evidence for the case. Chesebro may not be one of the more well known characters in this whole ploy. This is a guy with a hard to pronounce last name and a pretty bizarre character arc. Believe it or not, he got his start working as a Research Assistance for constitutional harvard law professor laurence tribe. But he was actually one of the most important players in trumps plot to overturn the election. Many have credited him as being the architect of the fake electors scheme. Which makes his cooperation to put it mildly a very bad sign for the twice impeached, four times indicted former president. And a major legal victory for Fulton County d. A. Fani willis. Not only was she able to flip two key members of the alleged conspiracy, but as the Washington Post points out, prosecutors can now avoid a trial in which they would have had to showcase much of their evidence against trump and others, which might have offered lawyers a Legal Advantage heading into other trials. Joining me now is lisa reuben, msnbc legal analyst, and melissa redman, clinical assistant professor at the university of Georgia School of law and former Deputy District Attorney in Fulton County. Thank you both for being here. Lisa, i will start with you. This is a big deal. It feels like a big deal. It avoids the first trial, but in your view, what is the significance of both of these two, you know, speedy trial defendants flipping on trump . Well, certainly, joy, the two speedy trial defendants flipping here has the advantage, as you noted, of avoiding a trial completely and allowing fani willis and her team not only to have to preview their case for former President Trump and the remaining codefendants, but it also avoids consuming their resources needlessly, and one of the key questions is going to be at what point do fani willis and her team go back to judge scott mcafee of the Fulton County Superior Court and ask him to get the trains running on time for the remaining codefendants in this case . President trump and his codefendants were counting on having at least five months plus Jury Selection to push this off. Thats no longer on the table for them. And they have pretrial motions due in december. Could those be expedited . They certainly might. And thats on top of the cooperation that fani willis and her team gained from Sidney Powell and ken chesebro. Because they have to now testify truthfully, and who are they going to testify against . Its going to be donald trump. Donald trump is at the head of this conspiracy. Fani willis is now the most successful of any of the prosecutors who have gone against trump. The new york a. G. As well. Shes now nabbed two really high profile, you know, basically confessions, and also a somewhat lower level guy, so shes got three down. Is the strategy in your view here for her to just keep flipping them with an eye on the main prize, which would be donald trump . I would imagine at some point you do want to get down to the main players. You still dont want to go to trial with 17 defendants, trying to fit into one courtroom. So i do anticipate she will continue to offer Plea Recommendations to those who are willing to cooperate. And those individuals are going to have to make real business decisions, especially those in the circle of the two that have pled. So those other codefendants involved in the Coffee County matter. They now have to decide, now that both scott hall and Sidney Powell have pled and agreed to cooperate, what are my chances of coming out of this without a Felony Conviction. To stay with you for a moment, thats a really good point. Now shes gotten people to plead guilty in the Coffee County part of the plot, which for those who its all become a big jumble, this is the part where they were taking actual data from the Voting Machines and unlawfully holding Voter Information to prove this dominion plot, that involved Sidney Powell, the bail bondsman. In the case of Kenneth Chesebro, as you point out, this now involves another side of the plot, getting the fake electors to certify that theyre the real electors. This feels like its two big chunks of it, but the chesebro part is particularly important, because this is where they were defauding the voters . Absolutely. Not only do you have Kenneth Chesebro who has pled guilty to a felony, you have those preindictment Immunity Agreements with about eight of those actual electors. All of whom are going to be able to come into court and talk about exactly what they were doing, why they were doing it, and what information they had at the time. And lisa, to come back to you for a moment. Chesebro allegedly, according to a lot of great reporting including our own katie phang, he was offered a plea deal before, turned it down. Then Sidney Powell takes the plea deal. She pleaded guilty to solely misdemeanors. His was and he pleaded to a felony. So to me, this says that the longer you wait, the deal doesnt get better. It actually gets worse, right . So for everyone looking down the line, the first person to plea, they got the best deals. They got misdemeanors. Yes and no, joy. As melissa probably knows well, georgia has a version of whats called a first offender act. That allows someone to plead guilty to a felony, but then essentially never have that felony entered on their record, provided that they comply with all of the conditions of their probation sentence. So if ken chesebro behaves himself, at the end of the three years of probation hes expected to get, it will be as if he never had any Felony Conviction at all. And that was critical for his legal team. Why . Because ken chesebro is a lawyer, and in most jurisdictions where youre licensed to practice law, if youre convicted of a felony, that license immediately evaporates. For ken chesebro, his livelihood depends on that. It looks like they got that today, joy. Let me stay with you for a second. Now lets talk about donald trump and his threats against people, members of the bar, people part of the court system. A judge has threatened to imprison donald trump for violating the gag order in the new york fraud case. Judge Arthur Engoron said in a filing this morning the court is fining trump 5,000 for leaving up an untrue and disparaging post about the clerk, engons clerk on his campaign website. Donald trump has also putp and doxed the attorney general, Letitia James. That may violate a gag order as well. He shared a blog order from a far right politicalctist on truth social that has Letitia James home address. Hes continuing to threaten people. What surprised me about engorons finding is the 5,000 fine. Thats a very tiny fine for somebody who even though its a lie, claimed to be a billionaire. Why so little . I think because chris kise who represents the former president in the new York Attorney generals trial went to the court today and said look, this was inadvertent. It was left up on the campaigns website, but the defendant did as your honor ordered him to do, he took it off truth social. The fact it remains on the campaigns website was mere inadvertence, and engoron said ill take it on faith its inadvertence this time. Ill sanction your client 5,000, but the next time, let me lay out the buffet of options that include imprisonment. This is a warning, the next time he wont be so gracious. It is an interesting series of events including what trump did to Letitia James, because the threats that we know that fani willis has received, shes talked about them. They have been Death Threats, racist threats, et cetera. What do you expect to happen in this case . Because to me, i mean, i dont know what the judge is like here, and whether this is the type of judge who would come down hard on donald trump. What do you make of the fact this is sort of a mafioso threatening atmosphere that trump is creating around these prosecutions . Well, judges are empowered, they have the authority and the duty to not only conduct trials but to try to make sure those trials are conducted safely. That includes the safety of those involved, the attorney, the court, the court staff. I would imagine the judge would do the same, if it becomes apparent there is a need to institute some type of order that there are no Media Comments about the case, i dont have any doubt hell do so. Lets talk about this, the gag order. Judge chutkan, the other case here, has lifted a narrow gag order on trump. This is the 2020 election case. She temporarily lifted her narrow gag order in Donald Trumps 2020 election interference case in washington to give lawyers time to file more briefs on the matter. Chutkan said the order would be lifted while she considers trumps request for a longer stay. She ordered special counsel jack smiths team to file any opposition to trumps bid to lift the gag order by wednesday. It is, to me, a little shocking, lisa reuben, are his lawyers making the argument that donald trump has the right to attack jack smith and jack smiths wife . What could possibly be in their Appeal Filing because that is what he was doing. He was not only slagging jack smith, he was slagging his family. I think what will be in their Appeal Filing is a lot of what we have seen from them in their opposition to the gag order itself. They will maintain that donald trump has a First Amendment right to political speech, as the presumed frontrunner for the republican president ial nomination, and that judge chutkan in imposing new conditions of Donald Trumps release, has interfered with his First Amendment rights. I dont expect that argument to be successful with the d. C. Circuit, which is the Court Of Appeal that oversees judge chutkan. However, you can see in judge chutkan despite her issuing that order, shes going Above And Beyond To Grant donald trump every advantage in that appeals process so she cant be accused of being biased against him. So if it takes a few more days for her to be able to enforce that order, shell give it to him knowing, i think, secure that the d. C. Circuit will ultimately enforce it. And melissa, to you, to just come back now to the georgia case. Steve saddo, who is Donald Trumps counsel in atlanta, claims that chesebros guilty plea was the result of pressure put on by d. A. Fani willis and her team and the prosecutions looming threat of prison time and said i fully expect the truthful testimonyl be favorable to myense strategy. He said the sam thing about the krakken ladys plea. What do you make of that . Is that just brave talk . I mean, you kinda have to assume the attorneys are going to put on their best face in light of all of these defendants entering guilty pleas and agreeing to cooperate and testify against the remaining codefendants. So i think you do have to i have every faith that he is confident that his version of the facts are consistent with the previous arguments made by both Sidney Powell and Kenneth Chesebro, so he believes if they continue to assert those versions of the facts, that it will be helpful to his defense. We shall see. Lisa reuben and melissa redman, thank you both very much. Up next on the reidout, the Capitol Hill Chaos continues as House Republicans reject jim jordan once and for all, with a bunch of new candidates now ready to throw their hats into the ring. The reidout continues after this. When i was diagnosed with hiv, i didnt know who i would be. But here i am. Being me. Keep being you. And ask your Healthcare Provider about the number one prescribed hiv treatment, biktarvy. Biktarvy is a complete, onepill, onceaday treatment used for hiv in many people whether youre 18 or 80. 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