Any more electionselections. Voters are not just choosing between the candidates but making critical decisions about the basic fundamentals of the democracy. Polling in the last knew 2024 primaries show us everything show us that donald trump will defeat nikki haley by significant margins. And Super Tuesday will perhaps mark this days away from Trump Clinching the republican nomination officially. That means today will, if nothing else, crystallize the choices that americans face in november. This between two president s, one current, one former. One president who has an agenda that commands broad public support. His commitment to our democracy and our institutions has never been in doubt. But hes dogged by some lackluster polling that doesnt match up with support for his policies. And the other, well, you know the other. Four times indicted, twice impeached expresident who currently faces 91 Felony Counts in four jurisdictions. Hes been found liable for sexual abuse. Set to pay hundreds of millions of dollars in penalties for years of financial fraud. Who also makes no bones about his specific and concrete plans to rule as an autocrat, a, quote, dictator, on day one if hes reelected. His tenure in office was marked by an endless series of low points, not just for the presidency, but for the country. Each one more disgraceful than the one that preceded it. He seems to be in the rear view mirror, times asking do americans have a collective amnesia about donald trump . Quote, more than three years of distance from the daily onslaught has faded, changed and in some cases warped in memory, and have a hazy recall of one of the most tie Tie Multi Wus Times in politics. In the wording of the most haley voter out there, quote its the Snake Oil Salesperson versus the incumbent politics. That quote was uttered by Dallas Mavericks owner mark cuban. He said hes voting gore nikki haley as a protest against donald trump regarding the biden trump rematch, his choices were clear, if they were having their last wake and he versus trump, i would still vote for joe biden. With the stage between donald trump and joe biden in an election where nothing else than our democracy is at stake. Where we begin with some of our favorite reporters and friends. With me at the table for the hour, former senator and cohost of msnbc, title win 2024 podcast Claire Mccaskill is back. And former republican msnbc analyst david jolly is here. David jolly, there is something i dont want to use the word ceremonial, because theres nothing ceremonial about donald trump but there is something significant about the milestone. Sure. In a postSuper Tuesday point in the cycle . Right, he will not obtain enough delegates to make him the nominee statistically, but the race is over tonight, we know that. Unless something is unforeseen and interferes with that, its a rematch with joe biden. You eyes turn to who are the Nikki Haley Joe Biden voters. Yeah. Because very respectfully to the former South Carolina governor she has never been competitive in this primary. This was the primary that never was. Right. But what she did do is mobilize a constituency many of whom have said i simply cant vote for donald trump. A lot of them, perhaps nikki haley will vote for donald trump. Theyll fall in line. What about those who wont . The Joe Biden Coalition looks and feels different than the coalition of the past. Its the coalition we saw emerge in 18 and 22. Its the coalition that led biden to the nomination. Claire knows this better than anybody. It was also a Family Conversation Nomination where the party had to decide which direction are we going . Biden was the electable coalition. The haley biden voter becomes everything when polls close tonight. Haley biden voter i can already hear voters saying youre going to spend too much attention on it. The point is, elections are decided by a tiny sliver. Sure. And in this instance, i think a lot of elite voters are women, more female over the trump voters. Theyve also accepted what haley has been articulating which is trump should be disqualified, calling her pelosi, mixing up biden and obama. Shes gone after things, shes gone after trumps own funny bone. Trump walks around taking the mocha test, tomato, tamale. The haley biden voters are important, no question. We know about 20 of the 54s who voted for haley said they will not vote for donald trump under any circumstances. But also really important, nikole, the people who dont vote in the primaries but will vote in november. There is a huge number that will not vote in the primaries or infrequently vote in the primaries and then show up in november. Its those voters, listen, dont yell at me, everybody, im not saying that democracy is not on the ballot. But what i am saying i want to be careful in talking in such generalities. Because people who will show up to vote in november that maybe wont vote in these primaries, theyre not talking about democracy, theyre talking how much they pay for ground beef. By the way, they should be talking that gasoline is down to 3 a gallon from 4 a gallon. And the wages that theyre seeing or the bridge getting built in their neighborhood they that he wanted built for years. Its not just a contrast to somebody who is crazy, demented and horrible in character versus a really good man but he also has to make sure he brings it down to a level that people can get their arms around easily instead of just saying democracy is on the ballot. And let me separate the Biden Campaign from what we do here, i think they do that, josh shapiro does that and governor webber does that. Theres a class of politicians who have become much better at marrying the democracy questions that we grapple with day in and day out with their agenda. I think President Biden does it very well, governor josh shapiro does it the best. Governor whitman does it the best. I think that happens maybe outside of these conversations. Do you think you want to see more of it . I do. And i think what theyve got, in these swing states right now, its not great in swing states that he has to win. And the third party stuff complicates it even more but in those states you got to figure out a way to make it as local as he possibly can. What he has gotten done. Whether its whether people in that state talk about their insulin, only 35 a month, what that means for their budget and what that can do for their families. Theyve got to do that on a granular basis in each of ease swing states to get those voters to show up in november that arent voting today. And theres probably something in the democracy that isnt granular. And that is taking away a right. Yeah. You step away for three months, and admittedly, you dont hear a lot of people talking about jack smiths filing or the gag order. You do hear people, men, women, younger americans, Older Americans of all socioeconomic persuasions, all sorts of kinds of nonpolitical gatherings talking about the fact that they dont want to live in a country where their sons or daughters cant have you know, cant make a mistake and not have Health Care Choices that are between a doctor and a patient. Yeah. Im so glad claire went there first. Its always better when claire goes there first. Look, theres a healthy suspicion that the biden camp has been relying on donald trump as the candidate to do a little of the work to help close the gap. Joe biden has to do a couple things at the same time. He has to defend democracy, whether or not that informs voters or not. Im in claires camp, i dont think it informs a lot today. But i think what tie those together is only in a healthy democracy are your fundamental rights protected. Only in a healthy democracy does your economy work for all people, Reproductive Freedoms protected. Only in a healthy economy do we have equities that republicans want to punish. I think part of that, and this is tactical as much as anything, joe biden and the Biden Administration has to take control of the narratives that theyre losing on. Dont avoid issues like the economy and the border. Own them and reframe them. Nikole, it is morning in america again. More people will go to work than ever before. Home ownership is at historic highs. The stock market is breaking records. Retirement accounts the an alltime high. Inflation is going down, real wages are going up. Joe biden has led a bipartisan Border Security package and families have better access to health care and education than ever before. I want to bring out like an oldfashioned tape recorder. You have told them this . Thats it, right . I also, having covered republican campaigns, i think there is a place for a dark reality of a secondterm Trump Presidency. Thats right. The danger is, danger is republicans instead of moving for the chaos at the border, try to fix it and move america forward. You saw joe biden do that at the border last week. He said to donald trump come help me. I suspect at the State Of The Union address, we will see that again. This is a guy that played ropeadope with rick scott on medicare last year. And if republicans think they can walk into the election making it about the economy and the border, its up to joe biden to say, okay, lets talk about the issues because ive got something to say. Knew colleague is here, ali vitali, in South Carolina where nikki haley headquarters just down the street from where she is staying. Giving us the view, not just the candidates but her voters and supporters today. Reporter first of all, nikole, so happy to have you back and so happy you got time with baby. Its Super Tuesday. Caller yeah. Look, all quiet on the Danielle Island Front here with the nikki haley campaign. At least for now. Weve been getting color updates, i heard from one official just a few hours ago said, look, were putting on the vibe of being happy warriors right now. The ones around the headquarters are listening to music. Some of the tunes theyre listening to on the nose including Started From The Bottom by drake, as well as feministleaning tunes from Aretha Franklin and others. That is very much the tone theyve taken over the course of the last few weeks, too. Theyre aware of the republican apparatus as it existed thind donald trump is trying to foottap them out of this race. And haley has put the brakes on that and said, hey, no, im going to allow voters at least in Super Tuesday states to have an alternative. They are looking at results out of South Carolina and michigan as yet donald Trump Victory but trying to say for a quasiincumbent like trump, he should not be losing 40 on the ground, roughly in South Carolina. 30 on the ground, roughly, in michigan. Those are the reasons that haley says shes staying in. For how long the reasons extend are the ultimate question here. In my conversations, nikole, with the candidate and campaign. Super tuesday is a clear Inflexion Point for them. They have money on the airwaves here. They have staff on the ground. They very pointedly said that Super Tuesday say mile marker. But when i asked the campaign, okay, youve got leadership and forces on the ground in georgia sand louisiana, that would take you through the end of the month. They just say its going to be stepbystep in the candidates words after Super Tuesday. The fact that were not seeing haley at all at least to this point is notable. The fact that sarah dean sand sigh just called some of those endorsers in georgia. And saying should we read into the fact that you got these guys, we called some of them, and they said there are no events planned at this point. Youve worked on campaigns, you know how quickly events can be stood up. It could very well be they get a phone call tomorrow and theyre still off to the races. But at the same time, this could be the beginning of the end for haley depending on what the Super Tuesday results are. Ali, she has made a Fitness Argument against donald trump. Shes not running a campaign Christy Ran A Corruption and close to running sort of a democracy rule of law campaign. Haley has been personal. Shes called him unfit, not just to be president but, essentially, you know, to run a council meeting. She just pointed out that he mixes up who she is and speaker pelosi. Shed be a laughingstock on The World Stage, a place where she cares what people think of her. Whats she going to do . Reporter look, she would say its not personal. And when we asked her before, do you wish you had gone after the former president and former boss sooner in the race, she said, no, then i would have been with Chris Christie. For haley, i think it doesnt track with the reality of the republican world that we all live in, she said this is not an antitrump campaign for her but the reality is if youre the only candidate whose name is not donald trump you are innately the nontrump or antitrump candidate. That doesnt mean that haley didnt vote for him twice as she often says. I do think its difficult to come back in the fold and say in the same breath when she drops out of this race, if that happens that shes endoring the former president. She said hes 200 cute by half with putin commenting that he never said that putin was responsible for Alexei Navalnys death. Shes been critical on The World Stage as you point out. Of course, on his mental fitness, the way hes clearly mixing things up youo On The Campaign Trail. Its why its striking over the weekend, haley said the rnc pledge is just a piece of paper im going to make the decision that i want to make when the time comes whether or not to endorse donald trump. I talked to haley supporters, by a few dozen in the five or eight states weve been in, they would be disappointed if they came out by and large and endorsed the former president. This is a group of voters by 2 to 3 margin, unscientific numbers, dont want to see trump as the nominee again. Would struggle if he was in terms of what their decision in november would be. I think haley is aware of what the vibe is on the ground in that sense. That, i think, will inform her decision whether or not to endorse, too. Let me share with all of you what mark cuban had to say. He falls into this category we talk about, i confess, we may be spending too much time talking about them a bit but they matter with the margins as precariously close as they are. Mark cuban says this, quote, its the Snake Oil Salesperson versus the incumbent politician. One will tell you the snake oil will cure everything that ales you, the other will show you details of charts and graphs. Hes precise and wants to sell the steak, not the sizzle. Trump voters are happily with the snake oil whether it works or not. The thing about 2024, the fraud is the point. Trump is running thats why i think were sort of post you know, legal concept, as with trump. Voters dont think any of it is real anymore. With the american president , theyre crawling through the desert, eating the sand, they know its sand and they still want to eat it. How do you grab the mark cubans and turn them into a bloc that matters in november . I mean, its really hard. I think there are certain voters in this country that have been victimized by a very simple concept. If you lie boldly, frequently and repetitively, it will work. And thats what trump has done. He has consistently sold lies. Snake oil. Snake oil. And these people are theyre there. I mean, i talked to them in my state all the time, nikole. Sure. They are just totally convinced that every prosecution against him is beefsteak. Theyre convinced theres nothing wrong with january 6. That was staged by the federal government. They are convinced donald trump Diagnose Everything right. How about calling active Military Losers and suckers . Thats whats really bad. What im saying we need to quit fixating on those who are gone. I agree. But this is an interesting group, arguably, nikki haley came around about the reality of trump after benefitting in that Association Take a very long time in the primary to tell the truth about him. Why . Why did she take so long . Well, i think she made a political calculation, and shes in there longer than Chris Christie, thats probably going to theyre all going to lose to trump. If she can look in the mirror that she enabled him and propped him and took a long time to tell the truth about him, but thats what she did. You know, i think she becomes an interesting figure because there are voters that care about her, not so much because of the campaign she ran. I agree. I agree. And i think she has an opportunity to make history here in a positive way as she unfolds like Everybody Else has folded. History is not going to be kind to this man. Just the border, as david was talking about, if biden takes trump on the border i was in the senate when trump was president and he had said im going to build a wall, mexicos going to pay for it, im going to stop people at the border. He did none of that. He did none of that. Sigh remember to the day i die, Steve Schmidt sitting in a remote shot yelling where are the. Pesos. He had no idea. Yeah. About what he was going to do. What biden has to do, whether its crime or the