Just ruled that Fulton CountyDistrict Attorney fani willis can stay in charge of the sweeping election interexperience case into donald trump and more than a dozen others if and only if top prosecutor nathan wade, the man she had a relationship with, goes. Covering all of the angles of this major decision with msnbcs katie phang, and lisa rubin, danny cevallos, and dave aaronberg, State Attorney from palm beach county, florida, thank you all for joining us, katy, walk us through this 20plus page decision and the choice willis has to make now. So, ana, msnbc first to report this 2346 page ruling that came from judge scott mcafee. The process has taken a few months, and so to that extent, if there was a win, the win would be for the defense for the delay. However, ultimately judge mcafee saying no actual Conflict Of Interest was proven by the defense. It was their burden to have to show it through competent evidence during the course of the hearing. The judge reporting there was an appearance of impropriety that affects the prosecution. The cure, the choice for fani willis at this time, she and her entire office steps aside to allow the prosecution to be reassigned or Special Prosecutor nathan wade steps down. It seems to be an easy decision to be made that fani willis would stay, and nathan wade would go away. However, wade has played a critical and crucial role in this prosecution since day one, this is not the last that fani willis is going to hear when it comes to challenges to her continuing prosecution of the case. The defense, for example, trump lawyer steve sadow ind kaet kating hes going to appeal the decision and in order to do so the prosecuting counsel in the state of georgia has indicated there would have to be an appeal of this decision to that counsel to review it, and so were going to be seeing, and keeping tabs on what happens. Any news yet from trumps legal team . Other than the fact that theyve indicated that theyre interested in appealing this decision, theyve also indicated that they are disappointed with the decision, stating that the court did not afford appropriate significance to the Prosecutorial Misconduct of willis and wade but those are the arguments advanced during the course of this multiday, multihour evidentiary hearing. Greg, we have an ultimatum for fani willis, does that surprise you . I dont know how surprising it is. It cures this legal problem, but it comes is a steep price. Nathan wade is experienced, tenacious, and has been involved for three years now. Her credibility has been under attack through these extraordinary hearings that could undermine the credibility from the legal pool she would draw from in Fulton County and shes also facing political challenges, not just from two challengers to her Reelection Bid in Fulton County, who stand very little chance but to also exploit these issues for political gain but also from republicans in the georgia legislature, Governor Kemp two days ago citing legislation that could lead to a potential investigation, even reprimand, Senate Leaders have already filed a complaint against her last year theyre going to revive that complaint, and, of course, theres an investigation in the Georgia Senate led by allies for Lieutenant Governor burt jones who also could be implicated in this overall trial that will look to subpoena fani willis and look to subpoena others to review this case. Dave, whats your reaction to this decision, did judge mcafee get it right . I think so, ana, it was a tough decision, he tried to split the baby here, and i think he did, although i can see on appeal how an appellate cars may say can you actually do this, where you order that the Special Counsel has to be removed, while the d. A. Stays . So that means you dont believe the testimony from nathan wade and Terrence Bradley but you believe fani willis, its difficult to get my head around it. But i do think that in the end this is the right outcome because there is no actual conflict. That is the ultimate standard here. Because, if she had a relationship with a Defense Lawyer or the judge or a witness, that would be an actual conflict. But to have a relationship with someone on your own team is not an actual conflict. It didnt have to even get to this stage, this it only happened because you had an affidavit from nathan wade saying that this is what happened, this relationship didnt begin until later. If they had just fessed up from the beginning, if they had just thrown nathan wade overboard from the beginning when this came out we wouldnt be here in the end. In the end she gets to move forward, take the w and move on. The court found there was no actual Conflict Of Interest, but the judge did write the record established the appearance of impropriety, and as long as wade remains on the case this unnecessary perception will persist. So, lisa, judge mcafee is saying this is about optics, no . Hes saying its about both. That both things can lead to a disqualification, and then he separates the two. Whether theres an actual Conflict Of Interest and the defendants fell short of their burden there, an automatic disqualification has to happen. Where you have the appearance of impropriety on the other hand, he says its really like a sliding scale, and its up to the court to determine whether disqualification is the necessary remedy that they take. And here, when hes talking about the appearance of empropriety the person whose testimony concerns him the most is nathan wade, he doesnt take a swipe at fani williss own credibility, but he definitely takes a swipe at nathan wade, and in particular, he says that wades patently unpersuasive explanation for the inaccurate interrogatories he submitted in his pending divorce gave him a lot of concern. Let me take a step backwards. Because nathan wade, as we all now know is in the middle of a divorce. In the course of that divorce he was asked questions in writing, called interrogatories, one of those questions is, did you, during any point of your marriage, have a relationship with someone else . And he said no. When asked to justify that on the stand here, he basically said, well the marriage was over in my mind. That is what judge scott mcafee is referring to. He wasnt truthful in another case, having nothing to do with this one, but having some repercussions for this one, and because of that, thats why mcafee is saying the remedy for that appearance of impropriety is that either willis goes and her office with it, or wade goes, giving her the easy choice. So, we have a lot of the reasoning in this decision, its more than 20 pages, danny, but we got a little bit more into judge mcafees head in a brief interview he had yesterday with one of the local News Stations there in georgia. Take a listen. The message i always want to convey is that ruling of mind is ever based on politics, im going to be following the law as best i understand it. Ruling not based on politics u following the law as best he can. There was a lot on the line with this decision, for judge mcafee personally, for the state of georgia, for the country. Yeah, disqualifying the d. A. s office would have meant not the actual technical end of the case, but it effectively could have completely derailed the case. As it is, even this order is a win, you know, both sides win, and both sides lose, in a sense the d. A. s office wins, but barely, and the defense also, their motion is granted, but barely granted. Granted in part . Yeah, when i say in part they wanted the whole case dismissed because of this issue. I say in part, and what he really means is, in teensyweensy part. The only person disqualified is nathan wade, did he lead the team . A major loss for the team . Sure. The prosecution goes on. This was a motion to dismiss the entire indictment or in the alternative disqualify the d. A. s office, they got rid of exactly one prosecutor, hes not gone yet but lets face it, thats whats going to happen and it was a hardly a Ringing Endorsement of judge mcafee of what the d. A. s office did and you have to wonder, the d. A. s office had come forward the moment this motion was filed, assess the situation, looked at nathan wade and said, you know what, nathan wade, we see the interrogatories you put in your divorce case, thats on you, youve got to live with it, good luck, the d. A. s office was defending the credibility of nathan wade and they shouldnt have been in that position. In my view, this is just my view, if they had come forward the moment this foegs moegs was filed and said, youve got us, we were in a relationship and it predated nathan wades appointment, the law was always on their side. You need look no further than this opinion. The actual conflict analysis, this doesnt fit into any of the classic actual conflicts. The appearance of impropriety i submit to you would not have been as strong an argument, it was bolstered middle eastly by everything the d. A. s office did, nathan wade and fani willis did after that motion was filed. I want to bring in Blayne Alexander live outside the courthouse there in Fulton County, blayne, you were first to report this decision, and have been following this case so, so closely. I want to get your take aways from what the judge said here in this decision, and its impact as this case moves forward. Reporter you know what, ana, i think the one thing that stands out to me is the judges language in all of this. Yes, we talked about the long and short of what hes ruled here, but he does not hesitate to take the d. A. To task, i mean, he basically scolds her for her testimony, for a lapse in judgment, in this relationship, and so i do think that that certainly is kind of an interesting nuance, especially to note as we know that this case is now going to proceed, yes, you can go forward, nathan wade has to be out of the picture but this wasnt a good idea. This wasnt necessarily the smartest move on your part, and im going to call you out on it. The question now, of course, is what happens next, reached out to the d. A. s office to see what we already know, that, you know, steve sadow said in his statement that they are going to continue fighting, trying to get this indictment thrown out, using available, all available Legal Options to them, the other questions, though, that i have are what happens, of course the legal portion of this is now kind of wrapped up in the judges decision, but now what happens to the ways that this has bled over . Shes still under investigation by a Georgia State senate committee, there is the governor just signed a law this week basically saying that State Lawmakers can now have oversight over georgia local prosecutors, something that democrats fear will be another tool that republicans will use to go after fani willis. And so even though the legal portion of this is, you know, essentially buttoned up, pending whatever action she chooses to take, there are many ways in which this has bled over and i think that shadow is going to be present over this for quite some time. The other thing i want to point out, though, of course, is the political aspect of all of this, donald trump, fani willis, judge scott mcafee, are all going to be on a ballot at some point, this year, i think thats certainly notable, but when you look at judge scott mcafee specifically, the judge races here in georgia are nonpartisan but he has already drawn two opponents, two challengers, when i spoke with a source thats familiar with the judges thinking on this, im told that this order was written more than a week ago. Before he drew his challenging opponent. So, you know, kind of trying to make the case that politics didnt have anything to do with his decision, but we also know that donald trump and people who criticize this case in general will, likely, find fault with this, and weve seen that other judges and trump legal cases have become targets as well, and thats why im told security was a major factor in the decision to release this today, ana. Im curious, blayne, the reputation piece here, in georgia, how do the citizens of georgia see it as this case has been upended for the past couple of months after these allegations came out . Reporter depends on where you go and who you ask. If youre right here in Fulton County, fani willis is tremendously popular, this is a heavily blue county, a big democratic county, you know that, when ive spoken with voters or talking with people casually, they watch and what they watch, they feel fani willis is being targeted. A number of people said maybe it wasnt the best choice on her part to have this relationship with nathan wade but when they looked at, what youre seeing right there, the fact that a lotover personal business was kind of trotted out in front of the public, aired live on television, they say that they believe that is just simply not fair, and that she wasnt treated fairly in that process. Now, if you go out to other places in this typically red state, youll get different opinions. Other people say the whole thing is ridiculous, a couple people have said its made a mockery of the state of georgia. Thats actually something that one of the opponents of scott mcafee has said, this entire kind of almost side show weve seen the past 2 1 2 months has made atlanta a laughing stock. No question, though, no matter where you land on it people are paying attention and watching it closely, ana. Dave, what do you think this decision means for the strength and the credibility of this case moving forward . Ana, i never believed this case would go to trial before the election. So, if you just accept the fact that this was going to be delayed past the election, anyway, because of all the different defendants, and all the rico counts which are complex and timeconsuming then i dont think its a great loss at all for the d. A. s office because she gets to continue. She should just move on, tune out the noise about her Personal Life. Throw nathan wade overboard and move on with the two other Special Prosecutors who can lead this effort. This is a win for fani willis. Im bewildered as to how the judge got to this conclusion to split the hairs like this, but in the end i think its a good resolution. It allows this case to continue, even though, like i said, its not going to go to trial before the election. Just quickly, i wanted to get your two thoughts here, danny and lisa with me, how quickly this case could get back on track and whether it will happen before the election that well see at trial. It depends on what else is happening and what i call trump trial tetris, a number of different players trying to get their cases tried before november, alvin bragg now has to figure out when his case will be tried. He said yesterday he would agree to a 30day adjournment. The only problem is that judge has another trial scheduled on may 27th, its the steve bannon we build a wall case the new york District Attorney has. Theres a lot of moving pieces, i think if fani willis wanted to go to trial before the election it would certainly be difficult for her to do so, but not impossible. Quickly, danny. Yeah, i mean, to build on lisas point, call any courthouse and ask a judge, if they need to move a date. Theyre looking at june, july, august dates already, in an ordinary courthouse, these are the most significant criminal cases, arguably, in american history, trial dates are delicate things, they require a lot of moving parts to line up perfectly at the same time, and continuances are common in ordinary cases, in complex rico cases, in georgia, in Fulton County, Jury Selection takes eight months, we know that because it just happened. Just the Jury Selection. Just the jury not one witness, not one part of the prosecutions case in chief, Jury Selection, that highlights a stark difference between state court in highly populous counties versus federal court, which generally moves a lot faster, but these are all complex cases, and things happen. Everyone stay close when were back in 60 seconds, were going to get some reaction from a georgia legal insider, dont go anywhere. You know, when i take the bike out like this, all my stresses just melt away. I hear that. This bad boy can fix anything. Yep, tough day at work, nice cruise will sort you right out. When im riding, im not even thinking about my painful cavity. Well, you shouldnt ignore that. And every time i get stressed about having to pay my bills, i just hop on the bike, man. Oh, come on, man, you got to pay your bills. You dont have to worry about anything when youre protected by americas numberone motorcycle insurer. Well, you definitely do. Those things arent related, so. Ah, yee oh, that is a vibrating pain. With nurtec odt, i can treat a migraine when it strikes and prevent migraine attacks, all in one. Dont take if allergic to nurtec. Allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. Most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. Ask about nurtec odt. Welcome back, we are continuing to cover the Breaking News out of georgia, the judge ruling fani willis can stay on the georgia case against donald trump, this is that sprawling Election Interference Case, as long as her Special Prosecutor nathan wade steps down. Lets bring back greg bluestein, and amy lee copeland, amy lee, starting with you, since youre new to the conversation, whats your reaction to this decision that dropped moments ago . Good morning, ana, i thought it was a real win for the District Attorneys office, even if its not nominally designated as a slight loss. When the judge had a hearing in advance of the first evidentiary hearing it was clear he felt something needed to be done. The status quo cant continue. He decided to hear evidence on it rather than just accepting the partie