Blowing up the campuses. Listen, the boys on the College Campuses are the luckiest people in the world. And here they are burning up the books, storming around about this issue. You name it. President Richard Nixon in 1970 referring to Student War Protesters as bums. Just three days before four students were shot dead by the Ohio National guard at kent state. And once again, were seeing the cycle repeating itself. As universities and Police Departments clamp down on campus protests. Also tonight, how trumps lawyers are appealing more to their clients vanity and less to the judge and jury, and why that is a losing strategy. Plus, was there ever any doubt that ron desantis would be back in trumps loving embrace . Hes one of many former trump critics now scrambling to get back into his good graces. But we begin tonight with a question. About a long standing protection supposedly afforded by the u. S. Constitution. Namely, what rights do you have to protest in america . We assume a lot because of the first amendment, right . But what if youre trying to exercise your Free Speech Rights on a University Campus . What if your views are unpopular or at least in the minority of the general public . It turns out if youre protesting war, your rights are pretty limited. In the 1960s and 70s, during the vietnam war, we had antiwar protests around the country, and those protests are now enshrined as one of the most pervasive displays of opposition to the u. S. Government in modern times. Young people protested against the expansion of the war, the draft, the use of napalm, the chemical gas that had become a symbol of the war in vietnam. These protests were large and intense and in some cases violent. There were shootings on College Campuses like Kent State University where the Ohio National guard shot and killed four unarmed College Students during a rally opposing the expanding involvement of the vietnam war into cambodia. That shooting is set to mark its 54th anniversary this saturday. Days later, also in 1970, in a lesser known incident, police opened fire on students during a protest at jackson state college, the historically black college in mississippi. Here you see bullet holes and a womans dormitory where Police Officers fired into a crowd around the dormitory, killing two and wounding 15 students. To open fire on unarmed students just shows you the kind of contempt the state had for those opposing the war. A war in which men the students age were dying. As part of its historical opposition to the idea of being against a war from vietnam to iraq, you saw consistent patterns of disparaging antiwar protesters. Students in the 1960s being told to join the vietcong despite al qaeda having nothing to do with iraq. You also saw it with antiapartheid protesters which is a little different, not a war, but a situation containing elements of war like colonization. And lets not forget the cruel disregard for black life during the civil rights movement, which went hand in hand with the antiwar movement. Especially when dr. Martin luther king jr. Delivered a speech condemning the vietnam war. Its easy now to assume that most americans oppose the war in vietnam, but at the time, they didnt. Ditto on iraq. Now were seeing a similar type of backlash against those who oppose the Israeli Offensive in gaza, including the deployment by University Leaders in some cases of overwhelming state police force. The message is clear. The government and University President s want you to know that the right to protest is a farce. You can be tear gassed, shot with rubber bullets, tackled and thrown to the ground, and arrested. At Emory University, a shocking scene unfolded as Atlanta Police and Georgia State troopers arrested protesters and released chemical agents on campus. At least two videos have emerged of professors getting arrested. This is Professor Noel Mcafee who will join us. The use of police force against these protesters should alarm you, and it mirrors the violence that is happening in israel, with Police Responding to antiwar protesters there as well. You have to wonder why. Why would the state line up against our students who are the future . Especially young people like these, who are at some of the most prestigious universities in america, doing exactly what one is supposed to do in college, which is to think critically, stand up for what they believe in, and demand a better world. Students who are speaking out against atrocities they are seeing abroad, a war where palestinians are getting killed in air strikes in areas that the Israeli Military designated as safe zones. Theyre watching children starve while workers bringing desperately needed food are killed by sniper drones. Potential war crimes so appalling that israel fears its leaders could soon face Arrest Warrants from the International Criminal court. These actions are what these young people are protesting. As they did in reaction to vietnam and the iraq war, and during the civil rights movement. And against south african apartheid. We have seen this story play out before. Only this time, it stems from the unrest that began largely at new yorks Columbia University, where University Officials gave the propalestinian demonstrators a 2 00 p. M. Deadline today and threatened to suspend them if they did not leave. But its obvious its not dying down. As of tonight, the tents remain. Columbia said it has started suspending students who defied the deadline. Joining me now from Columbia University is nbc news correspondent antonia hylton. Give us the latest on whats happening there. Reporter hey, joy. Well, you just said it. The encampment is very much here. Not only are all the tents still up, but students are inside gathering, meeting, talking about what they expect to happen next. I have spoken to some students as well as Faculty Members and faculty are a critical piece of this because many of them have started to wear these bright neon yellow vests and standing around the encampment to send a signal to administration or potentially to the nypd if they were to return that theyre standing with their students. And what they tell me is that theyre concerned about whats about to happen tonight or into the early hours of tomorrow. And thats because of this 2 00 p. M. Deadline. It came and it went. And what we saw happen around 1 00 was there were the protests led by the core students involved in this day after day, but hundreds of other students joined them. This entire historic lawn, this section at the center, the heart of the campus, was full of students chanting and marching all around the campus together. Including many, hundreds of students who again are not part of this core team, but who wanted to show up and show the administration were on our classmates side in this. There was also a small proisrael rally that came out behind where i am right now to show support for their side. But the overwhelming majority of students here have been showing at least in physical and in public spaces that theyre on the side of the students in this encampment. Even some students told me while they might mourn what could happen to graduation or how it might look different if the encampment is still present, because of all the Global Forces you just described, in a way they cant make it about themselves. They have started somewhat of a movement, they tell me. They see encampments spreading from massachusetts to indiana and tennessee and california, and because this is seen as the epicenter, a lot of these students are now separating into two groups. The students who are going to risk arrest, suspension, or maybe even expulsion. And the students who wont. And why may pack up their belongings tonight and make a plan so they can be part of commencement or make sure they graduate this semester and stay in good standing. But i expect to see tomorrow, were going to be back on the ground again, even as the encampment potentially shrinks thats still an open question. I think youll see a lot of students standing around in solidarity with their classmates. What do we know about the organizers of that encampment . Reporter well, its a decentralized Power Structure so there are several leaders. Several organizers and theyre of all faiths. There are muslim students, jewish students who are key crucial core organizers here as part of this encampment. And some of the students are undergraduates. Some of the leadership are graduate school students. And a lot of the time they spend the day doing activities. Theyll go to classes, do their homework. They have a library where students can read and learn about the middle east and all kinds of incidents in the past. They can debate with each other. Theyll bring in factalty members who sometimes talk to them about these issues from their perspective. They also engage with faculty who actually dont always agree with them on everything. The faculty supporting them are supporting them from a principle of free speech. They just dont want to see the nypd return and their students be treated this way, they tell me, joy. Nbcs Antoia Hylton Doing some of the best reporting. Such a valuable journalist, and we need more people to be doing what youre doing actually out there talking to students and doing the real work. Thank you. Lets bring in Emory University professor Noelle Mcafee who we showed you earlier being arrested, and jelani cobb, an msnbc contributor. Thank you for being here. I want to start with you, jelani. Graduation is coming up at columbia very soon. What do you know about the negotiations with these students because they have not yet left this encampment . Well, they have reached an impasse, so theres core issues, kind of immovable space almost between where the students are and where the administration is. So i cant obviously talk about any particulars. I mean, the thing is, this is an antiwar protest. In the classic sense. Theyre literally against a war. And are being met with police brutality, but this is happening all over the country, at emory, they used tear gas on students. Talk about the historical context. I will add one thing, which is that the real kind of fulcrum here is also graduation. Yes. So theres the Free Speech Side of it and also an array of voices from other students, some of whom okay if graduation doesnt happen because theyre so supportive of this. Many of whom are not. Some did not get to do school during the pandemic. Some didnt get a high school graduation. Thats kind of the complex and then there are a lot of parents and other dynamics. Its more complicated than just the straightforward thing. We have to recognize, this is an International Center of learning. People have flown in from other countries to go to graduation. Theres a question or whether or not graduation has to take place on the same space, im assuming. Thats the exact space. So thats been one of the core issues that also aggravates the debate thats happening here. In terms of context, theres some real crucial precedence because when i was walking across campus, i think two days ago, a gentleman came up to me and told me he had helped organize the 1985 occupation which pushed columbia to become the First University that divested from companies doing business in south africa. And he was talking about the parallels and the divergences and the things he saw that were different and things he thought were kind of precedents that should be copies in the situation. The real thing that people are thinking about, certainly people are thinking about columbias history, is the antiwar protests of 1968, the huge one that, you know, actually a series of protests that generated so much conflict and so much strife in the course of them that there had been a half century precedent of not calling nypd to campus. Until now. Until now. Calling the police on your own students, i want to get you into this, professor. To me, it feels like a bridge that one would think that knowing the history, knowing that this is a history that is on tape, that one can play back, that the violent history of using the police to suppress dissent on campus, yet university after university is not just doing it but escalating it. I would say that your university escalated it, using tear gas, using chemical agents on students. Talk about your experience and why you were arrested. Yeah, thank you, joy. This is an honor to be here. Can i tell you a little anecdote first . Theres a friend and mentor, david matthews, the youngest president of the University Of Alabama several decades ago. He went on a trip and came back to his office at president of the university and there were students sitting down occupying his office. What he did is sat down with them. And he called in the Student GovernmentAssociation President and he had weeks of sitting down on the floor with these students talking with them. In higher education, we should be teaching our students how to think, how to engage, how to do politics in a constructive way. So to go to your question, i had been in my office, wanted to check on the students. I knew from the past that emory liked to just call in the police. I wanted to make sure they hadnt done that. I came down there, and they had called in the police, and not just emory, Atlanta Police, and as im standing there, i see the Georgia Troopers Marching in. And when they got in position, they just attacked the students. They had ambushed them. They attacked them. And their mission was to clear the quad. And they did that. So and i went to jail, yeah. Just briefly. They let me out. But this is not how to educate students. We live in a world thats already so hyperpolarized and we cant think beyond these extreme positions. So i think its just tragic. Not just on so many levels but on the big political level, this is not the way to teach citizenship. I want to show just a couple things. Police have now broken up an Israeli Gaza Protest at the University Of Georgia campus. This is all taking place today as Vice PresidentKamala Harris is actually in atlanta today. To stay with you professor for a moment, a lot of the anger coming off the georgia campuses is not just about gaza. Its about cop city. Its about Police Training that is actually joint training between the idf and israel and georgia police. So its also an antipolice violence protest too. Can you talk a bit about that dynamic . What these students are asking for is divestment from that kind of Police Training, cop city, and investments in military. Yes, and just think about it. These students are fighting something that the Atlanta Police department is orchestrating and emory brings in the Atlanta Police department. Youre going to get there are students tear gassed, pummeled, that were standing by. There was another professor who didnt even know a demonstration was going by, she walks by and sees Police Pummeling somebody. Gets between them, and she was in jail overnight. Let me play for you whats happening at ucla for a moment. Were running short on time so i want to make sure i play this. Lets play this. Ucla, a Gaza Solidarity March got broken up where two sides ended up in contrast with each other. Listen to what im telling you. Long live israel. There aint nothing you can do about it. Nothing. You aint going to do anything now. Take it off [ bleep ] whats up . This is one of the few protests where it did get violent. The two groups came together, clashed. Youre now starting to see when the protesters are allowed to interact, it gets worse. Yeah, i think one of the important things that, at least in earlier iterations of this is we often saw protests in which there were propalestinian groups and proisraeli groups separated by narrow divide, but people largely kept it to chanlts. And chanting at each other. I think as things have intensified, thats what you saw there. I think we have to have a larger conversation about the ways in which these universities are very much a part of the military industrial complex. These students are not making it up that these schools are in partnership in many ways with military companies, theres a lot of that. Yeah, thats the kind of historic thing. Thats always been kind if we go back to 1968, the parallels between 1968 and now. That large protest began because of columbias involvement with organization that was doing Defense Research for vietnam. So thats not a novel development. But its a thing we have to be really concerned about. I want to have more conversation on this show because i think its important. Professor, thank you for joining me. Jelani cobb, thank you. Up next on the reidout, a second week of arguments in the first ever criminal trial of a sitting president starts tomorrow. And were expecting trumps lawyers to continue his goto strategy of never giving an inch to his socalled enemies. The reidout continues after this. If youre living with hiv, imagin