Commercial for the Sherrod Brown campaign, admits he has kind of a gravelly voice. We are going to show that later in this hour, for anyone who has been wondering why does he sound like that . You had me so worried that there was something terribly wrong. I was like no, its just he has an adorable voice. He does. I like it. Andrew weissman is back. Donald trump is 71 days away from discovering whether he will spend the rest of his life as criminal and civil defendant donald trump in trials and Appeals Courts or whether he gets to wipe away most of that if he becomes president. But, they are ready to take a look for us. If the harris momentum continues, what it means for Defendant Trump Next year. Ever since i saw, today, unexpectedly that jack smith filed an appeal with the 11th circuit, i did not expect that to happen today. They found the appeal on whether or not judge aileen canon is going to be allowed to have the last word informing out of the classified documents case. Ever since that happened this afternoon, i found immediately that Andrew Weissman and neal katyal were going to be on your show. Ive been waiting all day to find out what they think about that but theres a lot of interesting things about the filing. I am very interested in seeing that. We will get right to it. Thanks, rachel. Robert kennedy junior, the Jeffrey Dahmer of the animal kingdom, has horrified his family almost as much as Jeffrey Dahmer horrified his family, by endorsing the most horrifying republican president ial nominee in history. The only president who was more of a criminal in the white house then richard nixon, whom Robert Kennedy jr. s father tried to keep out of the white house until Bobby Kennedy was assassinated and created a beatific grow around the name Robert Kennedy, a name which his son has now fully disgraced. Robert kennedy jr. s younger sister, cary kennedy said, and outraged and disgusted by my brothers gaudy and obscene embrace of donald trump and his flagrant and inexplicable effort to desecrate and trample and set fire to my fathers memory. Robert kennedy jr. Told many lies in its speech announcing his endorsement of donald trump, including this one, the Mainstream Media networks maintain a near perfect embargo on interviews with me. Over a year ago, on july 12th, 2023, i issued a public invitation to Robert Kennedy jr. To appear on this program at the time of his choosing and he never chose to do that. If he does show up, i will make it easy on him by giving him the first question ahead of time. I will give it to them right now. It is in the question that i didnt have until i read an article by Kurt Anderson published in the atlanta, this weekend in which Kurt Anderson describes by and cocaine from his college classmates, Bobby Kennedy when they were both freshman at Harvard College in 1972. Because donald trump favors the Death Penalty for drug dealers, the Death Penalty for doing what Bobby Kennedy did, at the end of his article titled rfk jr. Was my drug dealer, Kurt Anderson suggests this question for Robert Kennedy jr. Given you sold cocaine in your dues, how do you feel about trumps advocacy of averaging that might have resulted in your execution at age 19 . Of course, donald trump does not advocate the Death Penalty for violations of the Espionage Act or any of the of the crimes he has been accused of and for which he is awaiting trial, which we will get to in a moment with Andrew Weissman and neal katyal. There are only 71 days left in Donald Trumps political career, assuming he comes in second in the Electoral College for the second time in a roe. And, the news media is finally focusing, finally focused on the problems caused by Donald Trumps tariffs. Lets talk about trumps record. He did impose a round of tariffs and cost americans 80 billion in taxes. Do you acknowledge that imposing more tariffs will ultimately cost consumers . What it really does is analyzes importers from bringing goods outside the country into the country. That answer was, of course, a lie, as is every word donald trump has ever said about tariffs. It took eight years. It took eight years to finally get the news media to focus on the lives donald trump and now j. D. Vance tell about tariffs. It has been a very lonely eight years for me, having had to explain repeatedly on this program what most people already know, which is that tariffs are paid by the consumers in the country that imposes the tariff. China doesnt pay trump tariffs, we pay trump tariffs. That is the point of interest. The parts of a tariff is to raise the price of that imported good so that americans will not be able to buy as much of that imported good. Every penny of trumps tariffs has been paid by americans in the form of higher prices. And all of the terrorist money collected by the United States government has been paid out to farmers across iowa and elsewhere in the country to make up for the massive losses they have suffered in grain sales to china because china retaliated against the trump tariffs by, among other things, not by Agricultural Products from the United States of america. Many of those iowa farmers who lost their grain sales and their income are still voting for donald trump because they are now the biggest Welfare Receipt means in american history. They have received 28 billion in cash payments, just cash here. Here it is. Directly to them for doing absolutely nothing. And no one in republican world is worried about the work ethic of those farmers who are collecting the no Strings Attached money directly from the federal treasury to make up for the farmers loss of income from trade with china. Donald trumps tariffs are taxes on you that are, in effect, used to make Welfare Payments to american farmers. Now donald trump wants to impose even more tariffs, which former Treasury Secretary and Harvard Economics professor Lawrence Summers has called the worst economic proposal in u. S. History. Donald trump has never once even come close to answering a reporters question about tariffs and j. D. Vance did not answer the question yesterday. They never answer questions, no matter how the questions we ask them, they do not answer. A lie is not an answer. I am ready to heap praise on the reporter or Debate Moderator who asks donald trump the simple question what is a tariff . Just those words, nothing else. I think the world would find out donald trump doesnt know what a tariff actually is. Reporters always prefer to show off the complexity of the questions so we will probably never hear the simple question asked of ndonald trump. As he can feel the enthusiasm for Kamala Harris president ial campaign, donald trump knows which side has the momentum in the campaign now and what that could mean to his futr se as a criminal defendant. The stakes for donald trump personally in the president ial election could not be higher. The Electoral College will either hand him the white house or keep him on track to spend the rest of his life as Defendant Trump. 78yearold criminal and civil defendant donald trump will be able to crush the criminal proceedings against him if he wins the Electoral College. If he doesnt, his life as a criminal defendant will proceed in a federal case in washington, d. C. And he will be sentenced in a criminal case in New York City where he has already been convicted. He will eventually go to trial in georgia facing criminal charges there. Special Prosecutor Jack Smith has appealed to the 11th Circuit Court of appeals to put the criminal case against donald trump for violations of the Espionage Act and the illegal possession of classified document back on track on its way to trial. An appeal of a Dismissal Ruling by Donald Trumps favored judge, judge aileen canon, who donald trump appointed to the federal court. Jack smith insisted that it is indeed constitutional for the Attorney General to appoint a Special Counsel. Judge aileen canon dismissed the case by declaring the appointment of Special Counsel jack smith unconstitutional. Jack smiths brief to the court of appeals filed today says the Attorney General validly appointed to the Special Counsel, who is also properly funded and willing otherwise the District Court deviated from Binding Supreme Court precedent, misconstrued the statutes that authorized the Special Counsels appointment, and took inadequate account of the longstanding history of Attorney General appointments of Special Counsel. Jack smith brief sites of the appointment of a Special Counsel for the Treason Prosecution of confederate general Jefferson Davis and john surette in 1855. Jack smith did not ask the Appeals Court to remove judge aileen canon from the case. The 11th Circuit Court of appeals could decide to do so. If the 11th circuit would rivers judge aileen canons decision, it would be the third time they would have reversed major rulings by judge aileen canon and we will discover if three strikes means judge aileen canon is out. Trumps Criminal Defense Lawyers now have 30 days to respond to jack smiths brief, Written Filings in the appeal will be complete by october. Oral arguments in the case will probably be scheduled after the election. By that time, if Kamala Harris wins the presidency 71 days from now, donald trump will know that he will indeed to spend the rest of his life as Defendant Trump in trials quartz and Appeals Court. Meeting of our discussion than it is 11, former fbi General Counsel and chief of the Criminal Division in the Eastern District of new york. He is a msnbc legal analyst and coauthor of the best selling the trump indictments. Also with us, neal katyal, former acting solicitor solicitor general, professor at Georgetown Law and host of the podcast courtside with neal katyal. Neal katyal , let me begin with you as our appeals expert. The next big item we are watching is the appeal to the 11th circuit. Let let this discussion proceed on the assumption that Kamala Harris wins the Electoral College and all of these cases can go forward in an orderly way in the next year. What, what are you expecting to see and the 11th circuit and what are the central points of jack smiths brief that should be persuasive to the court . I think, lawrence, jack smith could go into court, the 11th circuit, blindfolded with his hands tied behind his back and he would still win this every day of every week. There are some things in the law that are open to debate and reasonable disagreement and others that arent into this one isnt. Every method of interpretation of the law, whether it is text or history or precedent, all is devastating to judge aileen canons decision. I think you got a flavor of that in jack smiths brief filed today but really only a flavor. He uses words like nonsensical, misguided, strained, erroneously. I would pay good money to read the first draft because i think he probably used some words that werent quite so restrained. That is because really, truly, a firstyear law student could dismantle judge aileen canons opinion. Frankly, even a prelaw student. You dont have to go to law school. Just for starters, this is something smith points out, you know, the Supreme Court of the United States in 1974 took the very laws that Merrick Garland is citing for the appointment of jack smith and said yes, this gives you the power to appoint a Special Counsel. Judge aileen canons explanation was that was tictac, it wasnt necessary to the holding of the case, which is, to put it mildly, nuts. If theres anyone who should know that, its her. Her whole decision is basically saying, look, the Special Counsel is appointed illegally. Therefore, the indictment has to fall apart. He has no authority to issue an indictment. The same thing was true, of course, in the nixon case. What nixon was saying was of a Special Counsel subpoena should be quashed and it was outside the bounds of the law and what the Supreme Court said was no, there are these specific statutes that authorize the appointment of a Special Counsel so the subpoena cant be quashed. This is one of many things. Eight different judges have rejected this nonsense. I expect the 11th circuit to reject this really quickly and really fast, no matter who the president is. We cant have a system like this. Andrew weissman, we have a lot of shellshocked viewers out of their , along with me. Shellshocked from the Supreme Court decision on president ial immunity, something that we did not think was a possible outcome on that decision. And so, as confident as one might feel given the way we think the law works, how can we be sure . Because, if the 11th Circuit Rules against donald trump, he will certainly push this all the way to the Supreme Court. The bottom line is you cant be sure. I agree completely with neal katyal. If there is anything to the law and people being faithful to the law, judge aileen canon is even more run here than she was in the two prior instances where she was reversed by the 11th circuit. The 11th circuit, a very conservative circuit, reversed her. I would say two things to keep an eye on, which was skillfully done in the brief, allusions to two of the Supreme Court justices and what they have previously said. Thing allude to something that you, lawrence, have pointed out with respect to Brett Kavanaugh in a georgia law review, pointing out that he agreed with the Department Of Justice position here. They also point to something that i noted in my podcast, which is that Chief Justice roberts, as i pointed this out in footnote 22, when he was not a judge but he worked on a Bipartisan Panel of eight people and in footnote 22, they point out how that panel, including the Chief Justice of the United States, the sitting chief judge, said the Department Of Justice and the Attorney General have the power, has the statutory authority, to appoint a Special Counsel, directly contrary to the position of judge aileen canon. The message to the 11th circuit, even a conservative panel, is if you are counting on five votes, think again. We can be pretty sure there will be four against judge aileen canon and it points out to look at justices Brett Kavanaugh and john roberts Prayer Rulings and Player Ratings be just on this case, lets look forward to next year on the assumption that Kamala Harris wins the election. The 11th circuit would hear oral arguments on this, i dont know, november 15th. A week or so after the election. They have been very quick with their decisions. So, lets assume they issue a decision before the end of the year. That would then shortly if it goes against donald trump, be appealed to the Supreme Court. What does the timetable look like there . It doesnt look like they will hear it. The Supreme Court stops human cases at the end of april. Only rarely, like in the nixon case, the 1974 case i mentioned earlier, they did hear that case in mid july. Normally they wouldnt. They would wait until october. I think that is the timing we are talking about here. That is if the Supreme Court even decides to hear this case, lawrence. I would be surprised if they did. I expect a pretty resounding decision by the 11th circuit. To me, the only question is, is the 11th circuit going to remove judge aileen canon from hearing any further cases . Jack smith didnt ask for that today. That is not surprising to me. When i was at the justice apartment, my role in the Solicitor Generals Office was to solicit requests from prosecutors and uniformly say we are not going to do that. We dont ever, we have too many cases before too many judges. Whenever single a judge out. It is the rarest thing ever to try to seek a judges removal. Sometimes courts will do it on their own, including Appeals Court. That very well may have been here but that is not something that smith is going to ask for. You have to get the solicitor generals approval and i suspect he wouldnt ask for Something Like that. And october hearing by the Supreme Court. If they hear the case, my gut feeling would be they wouldnt hear the case but this thing will fizzle at the end of, it will be one vote with Justice Thomas but i dont see other votes for it. I think this would be the End Of The Road sometime in the winter or spring coming up. Neal katyal and Andrew Weissman, great to have you back. Thank you very much for starting off our discussions tonight. Thank you. Coming up, if you have been watching Kamala Harris long enough, you are not surprised at what she has achieved. She was campaigning in The Living Room of a friend of mine 18 years ago and ev